1. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    RIM's Rise Likely For Takeover Talk And Not BB10 - Seeking Alpha

    He does raise some interesting points, though he also seems to pull items out of his backside or fill-in-the-blanks with speculation to tell his story.

    - Where did he get the story of Balsillie being asked to leave over a disagreement with Thorsten?
    - Thorsten didn't 'revise his position on consumers' and - in fact - has come out and said several times that he was misquoted, including the next day.
    - No date for the QWERTY has ever been announced, except "following sooner after" touch screen
    - The SA article saying there is "only room for 3" and "Microsoft already has it" sounds like a crock to me. As if Microsoft has 80 million customers on mobile. Call me when they get there and I'll agree that they have 3rd spot. And if RIM suddenly goes from 80 million to 5, then I'll agree that there is 'only room for 3". In the meet time, shaddap! ;-)

    Some of the comments are really stupid though. Like the one guy proclaiming Mike is still running things, Thorsten's a puppet and there hasn't been a management shakeup. I swear some people don't turn on their brains before posting. New CEO, new COO, new CMO, new CLO, new CTO ...
    Last edited by RubberChicken76; 12-18-12 at 04:55 PM.
    12-18-12 04:42 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    I dunno why we all persist is giving idiots a platform, stop clicking their link bait.
    12-18-12 04:47 PM
  3. Majestic Lion's Avatar
    Sometimes I think CB folks take self-flagellation to amazing heights.


    Or lows, depending on your perspective.
    12-18-12 04:52 PM
  4. anon(2757538)'s Avatar
    Sometimes I think CB folks take self-flagellation to amazing heights.


    Or lows, depending on your perspective.
    I'm calling made up word on "flagellation"...seems too awkward/funny to look at to be true
    12-18-12 04:58 PM
  5. Bla1ze's Avatar
    I'm calling made up word on "flagellation"...seems too awkward/funny to look at to be true
    a masochistic or sadistic act in which the participants receive erotic stimulation from whipping or being whipped. AKA: Flogging.
    12-18-12 05:25 PM
  6. cjcampbell's Avatar
    a masochistic or sadistic act in which the participants receive erotic stimulation from whipping or being whipped. AKA: Flogging.
    GIGIDY
    12-18-12 05:27 PM
  7. marlowe9810's Avatar
    While a takeover is not in the realm of the impossible I think it is highly unlikely. If the analyst is using Palm as a point comparison, the analyst should consider that Palm was bought 18 months after the launch pf WebOS, when it was apparent that there was not any traction from the new OS and Palm had run out of cash.

    Just because the sun rises every time rooster crows in the morning doesn't mean the rooster is responsible for the sunrise.
    12-18-12 05:31 PM
  8. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
    When i saw the title, and that it was rubberchicken that posted it, i was suprised. But to my relief it was a link.
    12-18-12 05:34 PM
  9. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
    Stupid article. For example, and i mean for example as all points are useless...how does this support the idea that RIM is preparing for a sale?:

    "2. January 2012- Heins embarks on a $1 billion operating cost reduction plan. He also takes over the development for the BlackBerry 10 new product project."

    Cost cutting was due to decreasing revenue and to downsize so the company is still around to launch bb10
    Toodeurep and cjcampbell like this.
    12-18-12 05:42 PM
  10. Majestic Lion's Avatar
    a masochistic or sadistic act in which the participants receive erotic stimulation from whipping or being whipped. AKA: Flogging.
    Also chastisement to self and/or others due to Nelson-Van-Alden-esque pseudo-religious zealotry, yes.

    With this site being arguably the largest BB fan site it's now just a magnet for all kinds of harebrained schemes, "theories" and whatnot floated to the masses by whichever competing interests just to see what sticks. And it stinks. It's the nature of business, I know, but still. It's gotten to the point now where the major off-the-wall types don't even have to have their minions post anything here, they just spout off and folks here faithfully "report" what was said. (Not directed at RC76; just speaking generally.)

    Blegh.
    12-18-12 10:52 PM
  11. sosumi11's Avatar
    As if Microsoft has 80 million customers on mobile. Call me when they get there and I'll agree that they have 3rd spot. And if RIM suddenly goes from 80 million to 5, then I'll agree that there is 'only room for 3". In the meet time, shaddap! ;-).
    Uhh, Microsoft has over 500 million users. They have a history of slow adaption because of their reputation of hitting it right after several swings. Plus Microsoft has the luxury of cash. Lots of it. And throw in the powerful ecosystems of Office an xBox. They can remain stagnant in the Post PC Era for years and still be relevant.

    They will be the third (and possibly) the second. Google's fragmented and little-revenue generating Android will be the big loser.

    RIM not only has to show the world that they are not just a handset maker, but a real force in the future.
    Sorry, but a keyboard phone is not exactly a peek into the future.

    "The future ain't what it used to be."
    Yogi Berra
    12-19-12 02:26 AM
  12. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
    Uhh, Microsoft has over 500 million users. They have a history of slow adaption because of their reputation of hitting it right after several swings. Plus Microsoft has the luxury of cash. Lots of it. And throw in the powerful ecosystems of Office an xBox. They can remain stagnant in the Post PC Era for years and still be relevant.

    They will be the third (and possibly) the second. Google's fragmented and little-revenue generating Android will be the big loser.

    RIM not only has to show the world that they are not just a handset maker, but a real force in the future.
    Sorry, but a keyboard phone is not exactly a peek into the future.

    "The future ain't what it used to be."
    Yogi Berra
    Uhh, he said on mobile
    12-19-12 02:31 AM
  13. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Uhh, Microsoft has over 500 million users.
    Not on mobile devices. And anyone who thinks that Microsoft can just 'waltz in and take over', I suggest you look at the Zune against the iPod, Money against Quicken, Windows Mobile against BlackBerry, Silverlight against Flash, and many other examples among Microsoft's many money losing businesses not named Office, Windows, Xbox (which is often money losing itself).

    This is not to suggest that Microsoft is *EVER* to be under-estimated because that's a fool's game. But right now, it's Microsoft's job to take 3rd spot from RIM. As I've asked a few times when I've seen this, how many active users does Windows Phone have relative to RIM's 80 million? Not talking marketshare of quarterly sales on the heals of the new Lumia launch in some regions, but worldwide active users? Do they even have 10 million yet? Not to slag Windows Phone (I just tried a friend's Lumia and thought it was great!) but it's all just guess work.
    12-19-12 07:01 AM
  14. bk1022's Avatar
    First, I didn't read the article for the same reason I don't hit myself in the face.

    But second, reducing staff can be a precursor to prepare for a takeover bid. No one wants to buy your trash and if cashflow is negative you get little to no premium to book value.

    RIM, if split up has a good patent portfolio that any mobile company would want. They have QNX which any defense contractor would salivate over (my bet is Siemens or Honeywell type company would bid premium for it.). They have the tunable antenna micro paraelectric or whatever it's called. And of course they have enterprise server technology. Finally, they may have a brand with BB10, no one knows yet.

    What I do know is that splitting the company probably unlocks immediate shareholder value that CIBC keeps talking about ($17/sh)...

    Smart money does not make risky bets. RIM is worth at least $17 if broken apart as long as they keep an eye on liabilities, which is what Thor immediately did. Recent large investors know this and are keeping this option in their pocket. Don't fool yourself.
    12-19-12 07:11 AM
  15. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Reducing headcount had zero to do with preparing for a takeover bid in this case, as has already been stated in this thread what the actual reason for doing it was which was in response to reducing revenues and a need to survive long enough to get bb10 out of the door.
    12-19-12 09:36 AM
  16. sosumi11's Avatar
    Not on mobile devices. And anyone who thinks that Microsoft can just 'waltz in and take over', I suggest you look at the Zune against the iPod, Money against Quicken, Windows Mobile against BlackBerry, Silverlight against Flash, and many other examples among Microsoft's many money losing businesses not named Office, Windows, Xbox (which is often money losing itself).

    This is not to suggest that Microsoft is *EVER* to be under-estimated because that's a fool's game. But right now, it's Microsoft's job to take 3rd spot from RIM. As I've asked a few times when I've seen this, how many active users does Windows Phone have relative to RIM's 80 million? Not talking marketshare of quarterly sales on the heals of the new Lumia launch in some regions, but worldwide active users? Do they even have 10 million yet? Not to slag Windows Phone (I just tried a friend's Lumia and thought it was great!) but it's all just guess work.
    Again you are missing the point. Microsoft already took over RIM's turf: The Enterprise.

    Microsoft still exists in IT Departments around the globe. Mobile is a placeholder category, This is totally different than just making another product., Microsoft makes operating systems. Not iPod knockoffs or a Quicken wannabe. Microsoft is successful because they TRY to do different things. Although they tend to throw stuff into the wind to see what sticks, the fact is that they TRY.

    What is the difference between a desktop, a laptop, a tablet and a pocket computer?
    Stop thinking of mobile as a category. These are just form factors today.

    How long do you think we will keep using the term "phone"?
    Why is this so hard to comprehend what the future is going to be like here?

    RIM cannot survive on the mobile industry alone.
    What can you do on a laptop/desktop that you can't do on a pocket computer or a tablet today.

    What is the guarantee that RIM can provide that it won't be playing catch-up again in the next two years?
    It's all about ecosystems and the Office Ecosystem cannot be ignored.
    12-19-12 10:28 AM
  17. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    a masochistic or sadistic act in which the participants receive erotic stimulation from whipping or being whipped. AKA: Flogging.
    This may belong in the 50k CB challenge thread... lol
    12-19-12 10:32 AM
  18. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Again you are missing the point. Microsoft already took over RIM's turf: The Enterprise.

    Microsoft still exists in IT Departments around the globe. Mobile is a placeholder category, This is totally different than just making another product., Microsoft makes operating systems. Not iPod knockoffs or a Quicken wannabe. Microsoft is successful because they TRY to do different things. Although they tend to throw stuff into the wind to see what sticks, the fact is that they TRY.

    What is the difference between a desktop, a laptop, a tablet and a pocket computer?
    Stop thinking of mobile as a category. These are just form factors today.

    How long do you think we will keep using the term "phone"?
    Why is this so hard to comprehend what the future is going to be like here?

    RIM cannot survive on the mobile industry alone.
    What can you do on a laptop/desktop that you can't do on a pocket computer or a tablet today.

    What is the guarantee that RIM can provide that it won't be playing catch-up again in the next two years?
    It's all about ecosystems and the Office Ecosystem cannot be ignored.
    Microsoft hasnt won anything in the Enterprise. They are entering it, again, after SEVERAL failed attempts even though they own the enterprise desk and server environments. Do they have a better shot now? Yes absolutely. But RIM isnt resting back either. RIM is opening up something that no one has yes, the vehicle market, the embedded system market. They are not just about enterprise anymore, they have a HUGE portfolio they are building.
    12-19-12 10:34 AM
  19. sosumi11's Avatar
    Microsoft hasnt won anything in the Enterprise. They are entering it, again, after SEVERAL failed attempts even though they own the enterprise desk and server environments. Do they have a better shot now? Yes absolutely. But RIM isnt resting back either. RIM is opening up something that no one has yes, the vehicle market, the embedded system market. They are not just about enterprise anymore, they have a HUGE portfolio they are building.
    And you think this has nothing to do with ecosystems?

    The vehicle market is already owned by Apple. Give a consumer a choice of an iPod/iPhone enabled car or a QNX car.
    Guess which one they will buy.
    12-19-12 10:46 AM
  20. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Again you are missing the point. Microsoft already took over RIM's turf: The Enterprise.
    You're correct ... Microsoft IS entrenched in enterprise ... with computers, servers and office suites. Microsoft is NOT entrenched in enterprise in mobile. How many active users do they have in enterprise? How many active users do they have in total? Of the users in enterprise, what % are on Windows Mobile vs. Windows Phone?

    Microsoft has always been entrenched in enterprise. Including when Windows Mobile tripped along in business.

    Using your logic, Windows Mobile would have dominated enterprise because Microsoft was already entrenched in enterprise. Except that it didn't. And Windows Phone has been criticized for having even fewer features in enterprise than Windows Mobile.

    Your points about Microsoft are valid in that they absolutely could be a huge contender. But I stand by my view that it is by no means assured.
    Last edited by RubberChicken76; 12-19-12 at 12:00 PM.
    12-19-12 11:23 AM

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