11-19-10 06:43 PM
69 123
tools
  1. Bob61's Avatar
    Based on this info, RIM has given up about 1/3 of their market share, drop from 21% to 15% in one year. Of course, Android was the benefactor. IPhone also surpassed RIM.



    Love the RIM devices but their OS is showing it's age, OS6 didn't give me a warm and fuzzy that this trend is going to change either..... And further concern, company I work for (major company) is now testing software that let's anyone get their email on Android and Iphone's. Testing appears to be going well.... lots of managers are already salivating at the chance to dump their BB. If that happens that takes away the real lock that RIM had in the market, corporate email.
    11-11-10 07:51 AM
  2. 67Tucker's Avatar
    And further concern, company I work for (major company) is now testing software that let's anyone get their email on Android and Iphone's. Testing appears to be going well.... lots of managers are already salivating at the chance to dump their BB. If that happens that takes away the real lock that RIM had in the market, corporate email.
    The problem for RIM is that Apple and Android are aggressively making inroads into the corporate world (Blackberry's stronghold) at a far faster pace than RIM is penetrating the consumer market. RIM's attempts at consumer products have basically been failures (Storm series, Torch, and the jury is still out on the Style).
    11-11-10 08:09 AM
  3. Bob61's Avatar
    The problem for RIM is that Apple and Android are aggressively making inroads into the corporate world (Blackberry's stronghold) at a far faster pace than RIM is penetrating the consumer market. RIM's attempts at consumer products have basically been failures (Storm series, Torch, and the jury is still out on the Style).
    And being on VZW the offerings are almost nil for the consumer market and BB. Torch and Style all on other carriers. Everyone in the family has now gone Droid on me, Daughter with Droid 2 (loves the physical keyboard), Son and my Wife with Droid X (love the larger screen) and now Daughter-in-Law going with Droid Pro (loves the Blackberry style keyboard). Nothing on VZW in BB line was inspiring them to go with a BB device and I honestly had no reasons as to why they should.
    11-11-10 11:42 AM
  4. Pete6's Avatar
    Percentages are one thing but the whole smartphone market is expanding so RIM may have lost percentages but have still increased their number of units shipped.

    Of course, so has everyone else.
    11-11-10 11:51 AM
  5. Bob61's Avatar
    Percentages are one thing but the whole smartphone market is expanding so RIM may have lost percentages but have still increased their number of units shipped.

    Of course, so has everyone else.
    Indeed - Smartphone market is indeed exploding and RIM isn't keeping up with the times. But even when you then consider the number of units it's still very applauling for RIM - 3.4 million increase for RIM, 6.6 million increase for iPhone and 19 million increase for Android (more units that RIM sold). Nothing from RIM has been evolutionary (IMHO), including the "new" OS6, I considered that to be a very disappointing effort by RIM. Here's hoping that RIM has something up their sleeve for 2011.
    11-11-10 08:41 PM
  6. Pete6's Avatar
    Indeed - Smartphone market is indeed exploding and RIM isn't keeping up with the times. But even when you then consider the number of units it's still very applauling for RIM - 3.4 million increase for RIM, 6.6 million increase for iPhone and 19 million increase for Android (more units that RIM sold). Nothing from RIM has been evolutionary (IMHO), including the "new" OS6, I considered that to be a very disappointing effort by RIM. Here's hoping that RIM has something up their sleeve for 2011.
    All that you say is quite true.

    I merley wished to point out that percentages, units sold and revenue need to be viewed together in the context of the whole market.

    I also agree with what you say about RIM's lack of innovation. They seem to be stuck in a timewarp. They continue to believe that their traditional market will see them through and, it will for a while and up to a point.

    As I said earlier, the smartphone market is expanding and when kids have phones that do a better job than the one Mom and Dad have from their companies, it bodes not well for the future.

    RIM has one single market advantage and that is BES/BIS. A company with BES has complete control over the phone. If anyone else produces a secure system that does more or less the same thing then RIM will really be in trouble.

    We need a slicker interface with far, far more customization options. Themes that extend colors, wallpapers and fonts into the base BlackBerry apps like Messages and Calendar, etc.

    RIM also needs, imo, a less gray and sut covered marketing department.

    I am actually considering buying a Windows Mobile 7 or an Android phone next.
    11-12-10 03:37 AM
  7. pdafan1's Avatar
    My company (global, so you can imagine the impact) had BBs the day push mail was introduced to employees, and with now push mail capability and importantly, security, being now standardized across Windows Mobile, Symbian, and Apple devices, employees are now saying goodbye to their BBs. I can only say, RIM had better buck up, or it will be RIP. Yes, my company is giving me an Iphone 4 next month. Ready my ode to Storm 2 in the Storm thread.
    11-12-10 10:15 AM
  8. BerryBlack15's Avatar
    I find two pieces of information particularly interesting from that data.

    1) The total number of smartphones units sold nearly DOUBLED over the course of just one year.

    2) That all the companies other than Android either stayed about the same or decreased in percentage. Android went from 3.5% to 25% in one year. That rate if increase is remarkable and if it those patterns keep up it will only be a matter of time before Android eats into marketshares for Apple and RIM.

    Here's to hoping RIM is looking at and comprehending these stats so that it will light a fire under their *** to catch up.
    11-12-10 12:08 PM
  9. lssanjose's Avatar
    RIM is demonstrating a fear of change, or fear of having to adapt. Untimely adaptation eventually leads to downfall

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-12-10 12:12 PM
  10. BerryBlack15's Avatar
    RIM is demonstrating a fear of change, or fear of having to adapt. Untimely adaptation eventually leads to downfall

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Are you saying Blackberries are headed towards extinction?
    11-12-10 04:36 PM
  11. lssanjose's Avatar
    Eventually is the key word. It may be slower than what people fear. But, it can also be quicker. Apple responded to Android's wave by opening things up a little, or they would wind up pretty irrelevant sooner than later. The fight between Apple and Google is what's in the forefront for smart phones. RIM is in the battle, but not in the heat of it.
    11-12-10 05:42 PM
  12. Sanch0's Avatar
    I don't know if anyone should really be concerned unless you own shares in any of these companies.

    Even if the newest, best phones hit the market tomorrow, it still comes down to personal preference: what you want and what works best for you. I've played with the Android phones that Verizon has (Droid, Droid X, Droid Eris, Droid Incredible) and the iPhones that AT&T had (iPhone 4G, iPhone 3GS). I'm still happy with my blackberry because I enjoy the whole user experience better.

    Summary: What appears to be the best phone may not be the best phone for you. The way mobile technology moves, your phone is going to be surpassed in less than 6 months anyway. Stay along for the ride and see what comes out next.
    11-14-10 11:43 AM
  13. Shodan775's Avatar
    Remember, The Iphone4 won't be a new thing by next year. Sure, it's good and a leader in sales and power (in USA), but I doubt Google gonna let Apple dominate. Just as the chart demonstrates, Google has it's financial muscle and marketing and 3rd party support, and it's only the matter of time until they come up with something extraordinary that makes the Iphone4 look like the past. For RIM, they really start focusing, or they gonna get bought out. We either end up on staring at an Android OS on our BBs or a Windows platform OS if RIM fails. (this isn't a horrible thing though if you ask me)

    The emerging Windows phones are also something...they also have plenty of muscle to flex around with Microsoft behind it.
    If you ask me..I really don't like this whole playbook thing. RIM is not focusing enough and running late with that thing anyway. By the time the playbook comes out, Christmas is over and I was just in the Mall the other day and I couldn't even get into the Apple store, it was so packed. With all the accesories Apple has with their toys (touchscreen ipod, iphone4, and iPad) and they are all compatible, I just don't see playbook being able to compete. Having said that, all the energy should have been on improving the phones and start working on their next best thing, not another version of the same old and outdated phone or trying to make a smaller cheaper torch and similar underdog strategies.

    Ok, and let's not forget, that this sharp competition isn't so sharp outside USA, where the rest of the world still favors Nokia over anything else.
    Last edited by Shodan775; 11-14-10 at 08:15 PM.
    11-14-10 08:09 PM
  14. stuaw11's Avatar
    Remember, The Iphone4 won't be a new thing by next year. Sure, it's good and a leader in sales and power (in USA), but I doubt Google gonna let Apple dominate. Just as the chart demonstrates, Google has it's financial muscle and marketing and 3rd party support, and it's only the matter of time until they come up with something extraordinary that makes the Iphone4 look like the past.
    Yeah but by the time the iphone 4 hype is over its nearly time where the new model gets rumored. Its always a constant cycle.

    For instance, Apple may not sell a ton of phones every quarter (evenly across the quarters) but they dominate every June/Jul-Sept/Oct period when they release a new phone. Google on the other hand just has a different strategy. They release a ton of phone and get continually even sales across the quarters.

    There's really no right or wrong way per say, both strategies lead to big sales across the year, just different ways of getting there.

    Android isnt going to keep seeing 200 some percent growth every single year for long, eventually it will level out once saturation is reached. Personally, while I find Android an intriguing OS, I'm getting a little sick of a new phone coming out every week. The worst part is they are so similar in specs and design the variety part is kind of going down the drain quick. I just don't see the need why every carrier needs 5 "black slab devices" that vary very little between them in terms of specs.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 11-14-10 at 08:26 PM.
    11-14-10 08:22 PM
  15. Shodan775's Avatar
    The worst part is they are so similar in specs and design the variety part is kind of going down the drain quick. I just don't see the need why every carrier needs 5 "black slab devices" that vary very little between them in terms of specs.
    Yeah, but now, they have penetrated the prepaid phone market as well during the summer, so mom and dad goes to buy a phone for their kids or someone who can't afford a plan, guess which phone they gonna choose? Mommy and dady having an HTC or Droid, the teen knows enough which phone he/she is gonna go for.

    And by the time they can afford a regular plan, I don't see them switching over to BB, or they want an iphone.
    So for the general market, RIM is in a check-mate.
    11-14-10 08:41 PM
  16. Danf's Avatar
    This is remarkably similar to the old Apple Vs. windows scenario and will probably play out the same way.

    Apple and RIM are in the hardware business and their OS is developed strictly for the hardware they market.

    Google on the other hand has taken the Microsoft approach and attempt to build software that will work with a wide array of hardware.

    Microsoft dominates and ultimately Android will as well. Bill gates genius was not in developing top grade software, his genius was understanding consumers and marketing. He understood that consumers would accept second rate buggy OS as long as it had the features they wanted.

    Consumer purchasing decisions are seldom based on NEEDS, it is primarily based on WANTS. Generations of advertising indoctrination has taught the general consumer that NEW means BETTER and to have the latest gadget makes them the coolest.

    History will undoubtedly repeat it self and consumers will flock to android because it is "cool" and has the features they want. Android will dominate the market because of this and it will even eventually become a stable mature OS probably quicker than windows did too.

    In the meantime Apple and RIM will maintain "niche" positions in the market.
    11-14-10 09:30 PM
  17. JDukeOSBB's Avatar
    I agree that RIM is at a crucial juncture, but this is promising:
    By Lexton Snol, PC-Advisor-(UK) Nov 14, 2010 12:00 pm


    Global smartphone shipments to mobile customers are forecast to grow at a compound annual growth rate of 15 percent.




    Artwork: Chip TaylorThe mobile business customer smartphone installed base will exceed 30 percent worldwide; in North America, it will exceed 65 percent
    Bet on BlackBerry for Future Sales, Analyst says - PCWorld
    11-14-10 09:33 PM
  18. Shodan775's Avatar
    Now that most phones can access the internet, BlackBerry has lost its unique standpoint in the increasingly crowded market.

    Blackberry is being particularly hurt in the business sector, with companies like Citigroup and Bank of America now asking their employees to use iPhones.

    The two big banks the largest in the world - employ more than 500,000 people.
    Read more: Crackberry: Less Users Hooked on Smartphone | ThirdAge
    11-14-10 10:30 PM
  19. stuaw11's Avatar
    In the meantime Apple and RIM will maintain "niche" positions in the market.
    I dont see selling 14.1 million units in a quarter as a "niche" position considering theyre now the 3rd largest OS in the world.


    I agree that RIM is at a crucial juncture, but this is promising:
    Bet on BlackBerry for Future Sales, Analyst says - PCWorld

    I see nothing in the story about BB to be promising other than the article title; the article barely mentions BB.

    Another problem is RIM isnt growing with market growth as they are losing marketshare. So while they are seeing growth, its not as fast as the market is growing, which Android is well above and Apple is basically growing equally with the market.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 11-14-10 at 11:22 PM.
    11-14-10 11:20 PM
  20. iversonyin's Avatar
    It is obvious as to why RIM's market share is eroding. Their touch screen devices lagged behind iPhone and Android device in term of technical specs.

    However, RIM still appeal to the messaging/email heavy crowd who doesn't need a fancy screen and a nice browser. I, for one, almost defunct to an Android device. But after reading many reviews, the battery life on those device simply doesn't fit my needs. I hate my blackberry browser. But at the end of the day, none of these iPhone/android devices can beat my blackberry in term of battery life and reliability + real push emails.
    11-14-10 11:26 PM
  21. Danf's Avatar
    I dont see selling 14.1 million units in a quarter as a "niche" position considering theyre now the 3rd largest OS in the world.
    14% of the market this quarter as opposed to 20% of the market last year. With the release of 49.00 Android phones like the LG optimus and soon to follow other models, Rims market share will undoubtedly continue to decline.

    I don't see any future outcome other than android dominating the market the same way that Windows dominates the PC market. I think RIM will survive and at least hold it's third place position.

    Blackberry is a good product but it is one that appeals to people who make their purchasing decisions based on their needs rather than their wants. and see their phone as a tool rather than a toy.
    11-15-10 12:18 AM
  22. lssanjose's Avatar
    Uh, my droid has been as, if not more than, reliable when contrasted against my old 8330, or 9550 - with the 8330 being the worst of the bunch.

    Toy? Must we go at this argument again? It's only a toy as the person using it. I have a friend who's got plenty of useless apps on his Droid X. But don't say BBs are any more innocent in this department. For the limited quantity of apps in app world, the argument of quality over quantity doesn't hold any water.

    Either way, I love how my toy tethers wirelessly; it can get information on stuff I take pictures of (google goggles); act as a full-blown GPS; install apps onto SD card; run widgets keeping me up to date on stocks, news events; etc.
    11-15-10 12:28 AM
  23. JRZLocal's Avatar
    I've got both a htc incredible for my personal phone and a bb bold 9650 as my work device. I like both but for different reasons. Email is much more reliable with BB and I use BBM all the time, plus my bold is a global ready phone. My droid is much faster for internet, has free gps, and can tether for free. RIM can't keep up with Android and frankly neither can apple. Android is taking over and now that more companies are looking into making them compatible with their servers and security features its a wrap.

    Think of it like this apple puts out 1 phone a year
    bb releases between 5 and 10 devices a year
    Android launches between 20 and 25 a year.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-15-10 01:22 AM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    But Android is not a manufacturer, it's like saying Microsoft sell more computers then Apple when they don't make any at all. What manufacturer that adopted android os comes close to Rim and Apple?
    11-15-10 01:49 AM
  25. avt123's Avatar
    I thought this had to do with OS market share? Who the **** cares who the manufacturer is, it has nothing to do with this.
    11-15-10 02:15 AM
69 123
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD