11-06-11 05:18 PM
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  1. EchoTango's Avatar
    I certainly agree the non-North American market is going to good to RIM in the near term. RIM has lost the battle of North America by dithering on the OS6/7 devices and launching a tablet device with two stated missions, which had the unfortunate effect of canceling each other out. I also believe Apple launched a targeted highly organized negative PR campaign against RIM, which even they must be surprised by its effectiveness.

    The net result is RIM is sitting on the sidelines watching one of the most lucrative technology opportunities in history walk right past them. In a market that they effectively created, RIM should be selling at least 40 million units a quarter, not 13-14 million and their stock should be sitting at $200. This is truly a technology gold rush and while RIM seems to be trying to "find themselves", the other suppliers are moving forward with aggressive (and possibly risky) product road maps.

    In short, RIM needs to stop the pedestrian pace of its product roll outs and re-energize the company in order to compete. Unfortunately, I don't see that actually happening as they seem to want to be the tortoise and not the hare.
    Last edited by EchoTango; 11-06-11 at 09:20 AM.
    11-06-11 09:14 AM
  2. Fat Bastage's Avatar
    < I also believe Apple launched a targeted highly organized negative PR campaign against RIM, which even they must be surprised by its effectiveness.>

    Proof?
    I believe RIM's negative PR is a byproduct of multiple missteps. Such as Balsillie taking over as marketing chief, releasing an important device that everyone can agree is half baked and making multiple promises that never materialize.
    11-06-11 09:40 AM
  3. Economist101's Avatar
    I also believe Apple launched a targeted highly organized negative PR campaign against RIM, which even they must be surprised by its effectiveness.
    Really? Examples? (I won't hold my breath.)

    Wait! I've got it: Apple released the Storm and Storm 2. Apple released the PlayBook. Makes perfect sense.
    Last edited by Economist101; 11-06-11 at 11:48 AM.
    11-06-11 11:29 AM
  4. Phil DeLong's Avatar
    Really. Examples? (I won't hold my breath).
    Obviously he doesn't have examples, it was a super secret smear campaign. Duh, don't you know anything about super secret corporate diabolical schemes?
    notfanboy likes this.
    11-06-11 11:31 AM
  5. EchoTango's Avatar
    I firmly believe Apple is behind a campaign to smear RIM.

    My evidence is the timing of the stream of negative articles started at exactly at the point in time that Apple declared their entry into the smart-phone market. They literally created myths such as RIM being an stogy old-fashion company with stale products when at the time RIM was the state of the art. "Creative" articles started appearing about battery life, company financial health, technical glitches, security breaches all around the launch of the iPhone. Then we saw the media absolutely gush over Apple's products and ignore any shortcomings of their products while highlighting any RIM negative issues no matter how small or real.

    It's well known that Analysts and media folks are whisked to Cupertino all expenses paid to be feted and fawned over by Apple including free products and who knows what else ? With a financial situation the equal of some countries and the well known "high morals" of Wall Street, I'm sure no small amounts of cash changes hands. And maybe none of this is strictly illegal, but its certainly immoral. I'm sure none of these transactions will ever see the light of day, but I won't be surprised if one does get "outed" during an SEC investigation.

    If you read the recently released Steve Jobs' biography you will see the obsessive way he viewed the competition. Just before he died he was heard saying he would "bury Android even if it took his entire fortune and was the last thing he did before he died." I have no doubt he viewed RIM a similar way a few years ago and you're seeing the results today.
    11-06-11 01:20 PM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Canada isn't "overseas".
    Neither is South America really lol.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-06-11 03:30 PM
  7. Economist101's Avatar
    I firmly believe Apple is behind a campaign to smear RIM.

    My evidence is the timing of the stream of negative articles started at exactly at the point in time that Apple declared their entry into the smart-phone market. They literally created myths such as RIM being an stogy old-fashion company with stale products when at the time RIM was the state of the art. "Creative" articles started appearing about battery life, company financial health, technical glitches, security breaches all around the launch of the iPhone. Then we saw the media absolutely gush over Apple's products and ignore any shortcomings of their products while highlighting any RIM negative issues no matter how small or real.

    It's well known that Analysts and media folks are whisked to Cupertino all expenses paid to be feted and fawned over by Apple including free products and who knows what else ? With a financial situation the equal of some countries and the well known "high morals" of Wall Street, I'm sure no small amounts of cash changes hands. And maybe none of this is strictly illegal, but its certainly immoral. I'm sure none of these transactions will ever see the light of day, but I won't be surprised if one does get "outed" during an SEC investigation.

    And this would be the same media that jumped all over Antennagate and Locationgate, right? The same media that said that SJ "owed it to stockholders" to provide all of his health data? The same media that criticizes Apple for its environmental policies and Foxconn suicides, even though FoxConn supplies a dozen other tech manufacturers that aren't named? You can't just ignore evidence because it doesn't support your hypothesis while also expecting to be taken seriously.

    If you read the recently released Steve Jobs' biography you will see the obsessive way he viewed the competition. Just before he died he was heard saying he would "bury Android even if it took his entire fortune and was the last thing he did before he died." I have no doubt he viewed RIM a similar way a few years ago and you're seeing the results today.
    You'd be wrong. I did read the bio, so I know that you conveniently ignored the last portion of the quote, which reads as follows:

    “I’m going to destroy Android, because it’s a stolen product.” (Emphasis added)

    In other words, the Android animosity wasn't because Android was a competitor and SJ hates competitors; it was because SJ viewed Android as a stolen product. It was because Eric Schmidt sat on the Apple board while Google shifted Android from a BlackBerry-like interface built around a physical keyboard to an Apple-like interface built around a touchscreen. It was because much of the Android interface seemed to be lifted from the iPhone. Obviously, this has never been an issue with BlackBerry; if anything, RIM has stuck fast to what vaulted it into the lead in the fist place, even as iOS and Android shot past it in most industry metrics. Put simply, your use of this quote shows an incomplete, superficial understanding of the meaning of the quote. However, in light of the very first line of your comment ("I firmly believe Apple is behind a campaign to smear RIM," I probably shouldn't expect any more.

    One question though; how did Apple get RIM to release the Storms and the PlayBook right in time with this smear campaign? I mean, talk about a clever trick. . .get the media to report a bunch of negative, untrue things about RIM, only to have RIM support those negative statements with poorly-received, poorly-reviewed and poorly-performing products. Perfect timing of that smear campaign by Apple, eh?
    Last edited by Economist101; 11-06-11 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Typo
    dynot likes this.
    11-06-11 03:45 PM
  8. iN8ter's Avatar
    I firmly believe Apple is behind a campaign to smear RIM.

    My evidence is the timing of the stream of negative articles started at exactly at the point in time that Apple declared their entry into the smart-phone market. They literally created myths such as RIM being an stogy old-fashion company with stale products when at the time RIM was the state of the art. "Creative" articles started appearing about battery life, company financial health, technical glitches, security breaches all around the launch of the iPhone. Then we saw the media absolutely gush over Apple's products and ignore any shortcomings of their products while highlighting any RIM negative issues no matter how small or real.

    It's well known that Analysts and media folks are whisked to Cupertino all expenses paid to be feted and fawned over by Apple including free products and who knows what else ? With a financial situation the equal of some countries and the well known "high morals" of Wall Street, I'm sure no small amounts of cash changes hands. And maybe none of this is strictly illegal, but its certainly immoral. I'm sure none of these transactions will ever see the light of day, but I won't be surprised if one does get "outed" during an SEC investigation.

    If you read the recently released Steve Jobs' biography you will see the obsessive way he viewed the competition. Just before he died he was heard saying he would "bury Android even if it took his entire fortune and was the last thing he did before he died." I have no doubt he viewed RIM a similar way a few years ago and you're seeing the results today.
    Wow. How delusional...

    Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
    11-06-11 03:47 PM
  9. EchoTango's Avatar
    Well I may be delusional .....and yet we sit here today with RIM's valuation below book value with a totally distorted public perception of RIM products and a correspondingly declining market share.

    But yes, I may be completely delusional.
    11-06-11 04:23 PM
  10. dynot's Avatar
    Well I may be delusional .....and yet we sit here today with RIM's valuation below book value with a totally distorted public perception of RIM products and a correspondingly declining market share.

    But yes, I may be completely delusional.
    If you take off that aluminum foil hat you'll realize that most of that was brought on to themselves by RIM.
    11-06-11 04:42 PM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    If you take off that aluminum foil hat you'll realize that most of that was brought on to themselves by RIM.
    What would you say if Facebook would be caught doing the same to Google? Because they did it, hired a PR company to spread rumors about Google and they did get caught. Tin hat?

    http://m.engadget.com/default/article.do?artUrl=http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/12/facebook-admits-hiring-pr-firm-to-smear-google/&category=classic&postPage=1

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 11-06-11 at 04:47 PM.
    11-06-11 04:45 PM
  12. Branta's Avatar
    The thread is so far off topic it is beyond recovery. In fact the original topic is analyst speculation and RIM-bashing, but any discussion of that never even got off the ground.
    11-06-11 05:18 PM
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