[jlspeed29]

To a degree yes however I do think it's a little oversold.

BUT it shows how unforgiving the markets are and how quick they are to punish...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[badger906]

I think the media just like a company to fail as it makes news so any dip is exagerated. I think if rim were worried they would have pulled out all the stops to get this years phones out, and the pb released in more counteries faster. or maybe they are worried about them flopping so making them perfect..

[howarmat]

i think the stock does not indicate RIMs true worth as a company. But the drops in stock have been mostly justified i think

[Dapper37]

Interesting move in the stock today, she fell almost 3% and then came right back. RIM is that you? have you steped in. was this your plan all along? hehe.

[TheMimic]

I believe the drop is over exaggerated. The price is no longer reflecting how the company is doing but how it’s being perceived with all the negative press. The company is still growing and there really isn’t a reason, by any standard, for the stock to be so low.

But people are skeptical. They aren’t buying because they are aware that there’s nothing to turn around perception for a while. No new devices to boost sales and no new products in the near term. The stock will keep taking a beating till next quarterly results at the very least. The phones being released in the next couple of weeks won’t be on shelves long enough to impact revenue enough to boost numbers. We may start seeing it turn around in Q3 when the phones have been on the market for a whole quarter in multiple countries and some other devices are released.

[Dapper37]

perception is reality, I heard CNBC say that about Rim 6 months ago, turns out its right, if you say it long enough we believe it. and they know it. RIM will come out of this. Their just to much going for them.

[TheMimic]

Well, that is the essence of the stock market. Stock prices represent what the expected future is, not what the present is. That's why the stock market tends to be a leading indicator.

Agreed, but I think we can also agree that what they are expecting (death of RIM) is not what will be reality for, worse case scenario, another few years. And with the money they are still making now, can we really justify a stock price of 25$? I'm not an expert but I think it's over done.

[01itr]

Haven't you seen the standings of all the analysts who are only reporting on how terrible RIMM is doing and how they are going to die etc etc. They have all been shorting RIMM and have made loads of money off of driving the price of the stock down.

My guess is they will start to buy the stock back soon after the iPhone 5 release shoves RIMM down under $20, and then wait for the inevitable rise when the QNX phones are announced and demoed.

[Mr.Conviviality]

I'll bet that the marketing powers hacking away at RIM will continue to hack at RIM scaring people off and watching the stock drop another ~20%. At that point, it'll get gobbled up and the "transition" will be nearing completion. RIMM is more than US sales and it's obvious how easily opinions can be governed by feelings and not facts. Things will be different in 8-16months and no, RIM isn't going anywhere.

[TheMimic]

Haven't you seen the standings of all the analysts who are only reporting on how terrible RIMM is doing and how they are going to die etc etc. They have all been shorting RIMM and have made loads of money off of driving the price of the stock down.

My guess is they will start to buy the stock back soon after the iPhone 5 release shoves RIMM down under $20, and then wait for the inevitable rise when the QNX phones are announced and demoed.

That's the kinda logic I can get behind.

[sleepngbear]

Well, that is the essence of the stock market. Stock prices represent what the expected future is, not what the present is. That's why the stock market tends to be a leading indicator.

True, but the expected future performance is almost always based on the last quarter. The signs have been there for years that this decline was coming. The only real new device released last year was the Torch, and that was exclusive on one carrier in the US. No other phones were even rumored until earlier this year. No one in their right mind would expect the PlayBook to improve RIM's smart phone position, even if it did sell as well as the Hardy Boys had expected. This drop in stock price should have happened last November, but it didn't happen until the first quarter that RIM lowered its own guidance, and then continued when it missed the lowered estimates. In other words, it wasn't until RIM actually demonstrated poor performance that they got hammered for it. Similarly, Apple didn't begin to skyrocket until after everybody realized what a hit the iPods and iPhone would be.

So ... based on what RIM has most recently demonstrated, the stock beating makes sense. But based on what the company is actually doing now to prepare for the near and long term, I think the drop is a little overblown. Granted there are still a lot of unknowns, like how well the upcoming Big 7 devices will perform and how QNX handhelds will be received. But the fact that RIM is doing some pretty big things now should make up for the fact that they took too long to do them, and I think the stock price is always too slow to reflect that.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[CranBerry413]

I think that the Podcasts have made a good point, RIM as a company, produces their own Hardware & Software. Some companies do just one or the other. Towit, the Android Army of Google Phone makers are building the hardware, but not the software. At it's base level, RIM is doing no different than what HTC, Moto, Samsung, et cetara are doing.

In that sense, their stock should reflect that. What makes all this not show up, is people's perceptions. Which some of the above posters have already stated.

The converse of that is that MS & Google are producing Software, but their also Giant MegaCorportations that have phone software, because it's another avenue to make a Profit. So comparing these 2 to RIM is not exactly an even assessment.

My point this: Their stock should be comparable to other phone makers that produce competing products.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[the_sleuth]

I like BB products. I want RIM to succeed but reality check tells me to stay away from the stock no matter how cheap it looks.

After reviewing Apple's results last night, in my opinion there is another shoe to drop on RIMM stock price.

Professional money managers have tried to pick a bottom in this stock and it's been a humbling experience.

Wait for an inflection point, positive upward trend, and ride the momentum wave. It will come between now and Xmas time. You will sleep better.

I believe the drop is over exaggerated. The price is no longer reflecting how the company is doing but how it�s being perceived with all the negative press. The company is still growing and there really isn�t a reason, by any standard, for the stock to be so low.

But people are skeptical. They aren�t buying because they are aware that there�s nothing to turn around perception for a while. No new devices to boost sales and no new products in the near term. The stock will keep taking a beating till next quarterly results at the very least. The phones being released in the next couple of weeks won�t be on shelves long enough to impact revenue enough to boost numbers. We may start seeing it turn around in Q3 when the phones have been on the market for a whole quarter in multiple countries and some other devices are released.

[Dapper37]

One thing is for sure, apple will never have it all, there is going to be room for other platforms and its just now that we are seeing how each platform will differentiate its self from the other. Security, car, Military, medical, banking, home and office.
apple has a huge lead but at the same time they are clearing a huge swath for companies like RIM to come up the center with little resistance and a clear view of the potential . Considering that the resistance for RIM going forward is ready to wane as it cant go any lower. When it dose, the stock will pop.
RIM needs to Execute!!!!!!!!!!!!!! going forward is way bigger than looking back wards.

[01itr]

If RIM focuses on QNX and polishes it to an iOS standard, they will dominate. With QNX they already have a foothold on some major fields, it would be easy to start branching out into those fields. They have the potential to become bigger than Apple. Only one thing remains

RIM needs to Execute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Economist101]

If RIM focuses on QNX and polishes it to an iOS standard, they will dominate. With QNX they already have a foothold on some major fields, it would be easy to start branching out into those fields. They have the potential to become bigger than Apple. Only one thing remains

The difference between Apple and RIM at this moment extends well beyond OS polish. As for "the potential to become bigger than Apple," they'll need 350 retail stores, 5x the quarterly revenue and 2x the total number of device sales to get close. In other words, it's not happening.

[Davec1234]

The consumer spoke. Wall Street spoke. Will RIM listen?

[fabfreddie]

No, it has gotten over and above what is deserved.

However, that is not to say that a devaluation was not in order, simply, the two bozo's in charge have **** up royally from the 9000 on. So indeed some punishment was in order. But suffice to say, the current valuation is mostly, though not exclusively based on **** statements from analysts that don't have a clue what they are saying, and from so called tech bloggers that fall into the same pile of ****.

It should be at $80 to $90 from $140 not $26.

[Rootbrian]

Stock is like the dollar stores, dollarama for example, **** sells like CRAZY, such as their rechrgeable batteries and chargers, memory card readers, etc. if they ever sold phones, holy blazers, they'd sell FAST!!!

Stock is basically cheap, but be careful what you buy/invest in. I don't, I stay clear from it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Jimcmf]

I think lots of people are converting to SmartPhones.
The entire market is RED HOT for SmartPhones.
Everyone will do well. People are always switching to the newest, latest, and greatest SmartPhones.

I think RIM should do well. So long as they turn a profit ... things will be fine.
I love their products, and I see them everywhere. That is a good sign.

[jlspeed29]

Wow fantastic replies everyone. I'm glad I posted this. Soo many good points!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[qbnkelt]

RIM's gone through a beating not as much for insolvency as for overreaction to a negative data call. The company itself is expanding and healthy. The stock is presently undervalued.
Unfortunately, they're in a death spiral that they need to pull out of before the perception is solidified in the consumer market and artificial perception becomes reality. I believe the introduction of new phones will help them recover somewhat. But I believe that RIM's glory days are past.
I don't believe that RIM will ever overtake Apple but I'm not so sure that Google/Android will keep its leadership position.
I am looking forward to the new phones and what I believe will be a moderate recovery into 2013.

[Branta]

I don't see the reality as a death spiral, any more than the declining market share of early car manufacturers was a death spiral when new companies entered the market and started to take a slice of the cake. In fact that seems a pretty good analogy. In the early days customers had a limited choice, and it was a case of "one size fits all" regardless of their real needs. As the range of available products expanded they were able to choose a vehicle which was a closer fit to their needs.

However I don't expect that to convince any of the manic depressives here who seem determined to force RIM into oblivion.

[qbnkelt]

ooooo sir...I was referring to the exercise that fighter pilots perform where they actually go as high as they can and then cut the engines off letting the plane fall to the ground.....it's a fall but they can and do pull out of it....
That free fall - stocks market overreaction, media overhype, questionable letters - is what I see that they need to pull out of. This is where CEOs can actually earn their living and a good PR and marketing strategy can help a market correction along.
I see this is as an articial market overreaction and I believe there will be a correction.

[Tre Lawrence]

The easiest way to convince consumers that you have a good product is to, well, make a truly good product.

Putting my abhorrence of iTunes aside, Apple's dominance goes beyond just good PR.