[Economist101]

For F%#K sake, the BlackBerry Torch has a fine music player app, and the speakers is plenty loud enough.

Yeah, and the iPhone has a "fine" messaging app, so (based on your, ahem, "logic") you can't state a preference for BBM without being a "sheep." Got it.

[ssbtech]

Yeah, and the iPhone has a "fine" messaging app, so (based on your, ahem, "logic") you can't state a preference for BBM without being a "sheep." Got it.

I'm not a sheep - I didn't buy it because it because I saw it in an ad. I didn't buy it because all my friends have them. I bought it because I thought for myself and decided what was functional for me.

As for Apple's "fine" messaging app - you mean the one they stole from RIM? Good example of people flocking to shiny white things despite its shortcomings. iSheep were happy with SMS until then. It wasn't until one of Apple's primary user bases (the 16 year old school girl) discovered the benefits of BBM over SMS that they decided to launch iChat.

[katiepea]

I can't stand Android. Not just the stupid honeybread and gingercomb names, but I just find the phones stupid and confusing. Nothing is where you want it, the whole interface is too dynamic. Social feeds clutter up practically every screen with unnecessary "I just farted and it smelled" posts from friends of friends on Facespace and Twitbook reports of some girl you don't know blabbering on about her itch "down there".

There's nothing cute about the stupid green robot either. his alien identity crisis is starting to **** me off.


BBOS is clean, straight to the point and functional. The only thing RIM needs to do is market it better and convince a few good app developers to give them the time of day.

I'd rather have a few good functional apps than angry bloody birds.

Sorry but dynamic isn't a bad thing you can make android look however you want, everything is changeable my screens are minimalist and clean
does this look cluttered and confusing to you? you can change launchers, messaging apps, make folders, change icons of everything choose how many screens you want...it's endless:

you seem to be hating just to hate, you can scream I DON'T WANT FEATURES all you want, but you're in an extreme minority, the fact is is that people want dynamic, just because you don't have it doesn't mean it sucks
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[thepinkcurve]

Bb will never fail

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[katiepea]

Bb will never fail

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

It already has, even rim ackowlwdges this

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[blackberry-unlocking710]

He is right, we all be dead - it's 2012 world end....

[mssca]

They forgot that EVEN Indian Army and military is ordering more Blackberries and it will have an impact because now India and China are two main power houses in the East. India is going to limit Blackberry use in general consumers, but have extended the use of BBs in military. There are many other countries including US and Canada are forcing their members of the Army and police services to use Blackberries over other phones.

So, RIMM share may go down, but the company will survive thanks to all the government and high military support from ALL over the world. I hope RIM will out live my and my next generation.

[katiepea]

They forgot that EVEN Indian Army and military is ordering more Blackberries and it will have an impact because now India and China are two main power houses in the East. India is going to limit Blackberry use in general consumers, but have extended the use of BBs in military. There are many other countries including US and Canada are forcing their members of the Army and police services to use Blackberries over other phones.

So, RIMM share may go down, but the company will survive thanks to all the government and high military support from ALL over the world. I hope RIM will out live my and my next generation.

i think everyone can agree that enterprise support alone is not enough to keep the blackberry brand alive, they need consumers as well, and forcing people to use their devices doesn't get the job done.

[ssbtech]

So is it the lack of an app store with 475,000 apps in it that is killing RIM?

Sure, there are lots of apps for the iPhone. I wonder how many people who download an app are still using it 5 days later. A month later. The average iPhone user has about 30 apps installed on their phone from the app world, nearly half of them games. I just don't see a lack of apps killing RIM.

[katiepea]

So is it the lack of an app store with 475,000 apps in it that is killing RIM?

Sure, there are lots of apps for the iPhone. I wonder how many people who download an app are still using it 5 days later. A month later. The average iPhone user has about 30 apps installed on their phone from the app world, nearly half of them games. I just don't see a lack of apps killing RIM.

didn't you already say you knew why? customers fault right? j/k, it's not apps alone it's phones/devices not being at the same standard as identically priced devices from competitors, small low-res screens, insanely long software updates, limited functionality, lack of developers.

the length at which someone continues to use an app is totally irrelevant, the fact is is that the option to use it is there, and this doesn't exist on the BB platform. i have about 45 apps i use frequently on my android phone, 8 are games (most infrequent). a lot of them are widgets, which don't exist at all on bbOS, and are incredibly useful. barcode scanners, keyboards, delta app, foodspotting, google sky map, navigation (free turn by turn) flash, several media players, twitter app (incomparable to the bb twitter app) full office suite, torrent manager, taxi magic, wifi calling, skype (with video chat on 3g). some of my apps i had on my bb, but the experience between the 2 is completely different.

[ssbtech]

it's not apps alone it's phones/devices not being at the same standard as identically priced devices from competitors, small low-res screens, insanely long software updates, limited functionality, lack of developers.

Come on, the Torch has a small screen? Limited functionality?

the length at which someone continues to use an app is totally irrelevant,

I think the length of time someone uses an app is perfectly relevant. An app that's used a few times then deleted and forgotten about doesn't contribute to the overall long term functionality of the device.

There's no doubt that half a million apps is very alluring to consumers and drives sales, but that's why I call such consumers iSheep. They're drawn in by the half million apps, not thinking about the fact that they might try all of a hundred of them over the course of a couple of years, and keep on average about 30 of them.

[katiepea]

Come on, the Torch has a small screen? Limited functionality?




I think the length of time someone uses an app is perfectly relevant. An app that's used a few times then deleted and forgotten about doesn't contribute to the overall long term functionality of the device.

There's no doubt that half a million apps is very alluring to consumers and drives sales, but that's why I call such consumers iSheep. They're drawn in by the half million apps, not thinking about the fact that they might try all of a hundred of them over the course of a couple of years, and keep on average about 30 of them.

just because one person deletes an app doesn't mean other people don't keep it, it's this simple, the fact that the app is available to download trumps it not being available to download. this creates competition which creates better development. trying 100 apps and keeping one is a good thing, options are fantastic for consumers. if you want to speak about quality then i would challenge you to show me one BB app that functions better than it's android/iphone equivalent. i doubt it can be done, because there's such a lack of competition in app world that developers can be lazy and take months in between updates, android app updates happen multiple times per week often.

yes the torch's screen is pretty bad, especially regarding the resolution, just pick and choose any review you want, they all knock it

[ssbtech]

just because one person deletes an app doesn't mean other people don't keep it, it's this simple, the fact that the app is available to download trumps it not being available to download. this creates competition which creates better development. trying 100 apps and keeping one is a good thing, options are fantastic for consumers. if you want to speak about quality then i would challenge you to show me one BB app that functions better than it's android/iphone equivalent. i doubt it can be done, because there's such a lack of competition in app world that developers can be lazy and take months in between updates, android app updates happen multiple times per week often.

yes the torch's screen is pretty bad, especially regarding the resolution, just pick and choose any review you want, they all knock it

Why aren't there half a million apps for BlackBerry? Is it because there aren't enough BlackBerry phones out there?

As for the screen, I don't have anything against it. Good size, easy to read. I don't want to carry around a giant 4.5" screen around with me. The Torch is a nice sized phone.

[katiepea]

Why aren't there half a million apps for BlackBerry? Is it because there aren't enough BlackBerry phones out there?

As for the screen, I don't have anything against it. Good size, easy to read. I don't want to carry around a giant 4.5" screen around with me. The Torch is a nice sized phone.

it's because developers have little to no interest in developing for the blackberry platform, it's notoriously time consuming, hard, and a lot more expensive than android/iOS.

if you're interested in reading write up's about it here you go
for bbos: Android development vs. Blackberry Development | Life by Bits & Numbers

and qnx seems to be a pain also:
You Win, RIM! (An Open Letter To RIM's Developer Relations)

[Economist101]

Why aren't there half a million apps for BlackBerry? Is it because there aren't enough BlackBerry phones out there?

There are plenty of BB phones out there. As RIM's reported, there are 70 million + subscribers, and something like 170 million devices sold all-time. Number of devices isn't the problem. Platform diversity isn't the problem either, since Android's got more diversity and still a lot more apps than App World. The problem appears to be tools that don't satisfy developers plus insufficient return on investment.

The latter is particularly important, and is why it doesn't matter how long someone uses an app. The developers are looking for revenue, and they get that revenue when the user purchases an app. In that sense, it's not really important that the user keep using it. Granted, there may be opportunities for additional revenue down the line, but it's up to the developer to keep the user interested. After all, it's the users that are paying developers (be it directly or indirectly), not the other way around.

[Tre Lawrence]

I'm starting to think that the problem with RIM isn't really a problem with RIM - it's a customer problem.

Wow.

Problem is, I think this is EXACTLY how they think in Waterloo.

"We're awesome. The iPhone cannot be real! Those iSheep customers are the problem!"

It's tragic. Funny... but tragic. All this time we have ruminating about the New World Order, and out had ben right front of us... wearing a black turtleneck.

[blackjack93117]

Yeah yeah analysts say lots of stuff and there is one for every viewpoint. Some are right some are wrong. So what.

[yankdog]

ive had several good black berries but you all have to admit that the blackberry's today really arent all that good. all they do to bring a new one to the market is rename the past blackberry. most of the apps you have to pay for and the ones u dont there ****. blackberry and rim will never compete with apple and google, its just not going to happen. there more of a hardware based company anyways. the worst that can happen to rim is that they will get taken over. rim can allways survive over seas anyways.

[ssbtech]

ive had several good black berries but you all have to admit that the blackberry's today really arent all that good. all they do to bring a new one to the market is rename the past blackberry. most of the apps you have to pay for and the ones u dont there ****. blackberry and rim will never compete with apple and google, its just not going to happen. there more of a hardware based company anyways. the worst that can happen to rim is that they will get taken over. rim can allways survive over seas anyways.

I think you're 100% full of it.

BlackBerry phones have been constantly evolving. The latest round are the fastest yet. Frankly I don't see the need for 1.6Ghz processors in phones but that's just me. My Torch is plenty fast enough and was a massive upgrade over my previous phone.

I like the design of most BlackBerry phones too. They're clean, functional and somewhat utilitarian. Boo hoo, it they don't have a stupid "publish to facebook" button on the lower front bezel

Smart phones have only recently surpassed "feature phones" in sales, and many people are still buying good old fashioned cell phones.

[avt123]

I think you're 100% full of it.

BlackBerry phones have been constantly evolving. The latest round are the fastest yet. Frankly I don't see the need for 1.6Ghz processors in phones but that's just me. My Torch is plenty fast enough and was a massive upgrade over my previous phone.

I like the design of most BlackBerry phones too. They're clean, functional and somewhat utilitarian. Boo hoo, it they don't have a stupid "publish to facebook" button on the lower front bezel

Smart phones have only recently surpassed "feature phones" in sales, and many people are still buying good old fashioned cell phones.

Continuously evolving? They halted evolution for about 4 years. Before the OS7 device, the Bold 9000 was the only BB to actually stand out (besides the Storm and Torch because they were the first of their kind for BB) amongst the rest. Since the 9000, the hardware has been exactly the same besides minor memory upgrades. The 9700 and 9780 were the same exact device as the 9000 in a smaller form. Barely any improvements. The 9900 is the first Bold again to actually show a significant evolution of the BlackBerry. The 9000 came out in 2008...

It doesn't matter what you need. If you look at the facts, BBs over the years have barely had any significant change in hardware. Now to some (like you) they may not care, but to others this is a big deal. I had a friend on a one year contract buy the 9700 and wanted to upgrade to another BB after the year. The upgrade to his 9700 was the 9780. It is the same exact device with a memory bump and a few other minor upgrades. If it had been the 9900 instead, he would have bought that in a heartbeat since that is a REAL upgrade from the 9700. Double the specs and it can run an OS the 9700 cannot.

If you call a memory bump and a camera upgrade continuous evolution in the tech field, you have low expectations. Technology is evolving at rapid rates. Before the 9900, the BB had the evolution rate similar to an animal.

[Rickroller]

I think you're 100% full of it.

BlackBerry phones have been constantly evolving. The latest round are the fastest yet. Frankly I don't see the need for 1.6Ghz processors in phones but that's just me. My Torch is plenty fast enough and was a massive upgrade over my previous phone.

I like the design of most BlackBerry phones too. They're clean, functional and somewhat utilitarian. Boo hoo, it they don't have a stupid "publish to facebook" button on the lower front bezel

Smart phones have only recently surpassed "feature phones" in sales, and many people are still buying good old fashioned cell phones.

I guess if you call the "upgrades" from say the Storm 1 to the Storm 2 "constantly evolving" then I might agree with you. Although I don't think its any large secret that BB's have constantly recycled old hardware with minor improvements into "new" phones. That was their business model for years.. and the reason they are about as relevant as the Delorian is nowadays.

[ssbtech]

Continuously evolving? They halted evolution for about 4 years. Before the OS7 device, the Bold 9000 was the only BB to actually stand out (besides the Storm and Torch because they were the first of their kind for BB) amongst the rest. Since the 9000, the hardware has been exactly the same besides minor memory upgrades. The 9700 and 9780 were the same exact device as the 9000 in a smaller form. Barely any improvements. The 9900 is the first Bold again to actually show a significant evolution of the BlackBerry. The 9000 came out in 2008...

It doesn't matter what you need. If you look at the facts, BBs over the years have barely had any significant change in hardware. Now to some (like you) they may not care, but to others this is a big deal. I had a friend on a one year contract buy the 9700 and wanted to upgrade to another BB after the year. The upgrade to his 9700 was the 9780. It is the same exact device with a emory bump and a few other minor upgrades. If it had been the 9900 instead, he would have bought that in a heartbeat since that is a REAL upgrade from the 9700. Double the specs and it can run an OS the 9700 cannot.

If you call a memory bump and a camera upgrade continuous evolution in the tech field, you have low expectations.

You're contradicting yourself - "They halted evolution for 4 years" "except the Storm and Torch because they were new form factors for BlackBerry". So while some of their phones evolved very little, the lineup as a whole added new form factors and features. And it continues to grow - yet another Torch form factor, a new Torch 9810, the new Bold, new Curve, etc...

You're saying RIM is not evoloving, have you not noticed the new phones?

[ssbtech]

I guess if you call the "upgrades" from say the Storm 1 to the Storm 2 "constantly evolving" then I might agree with you. Although I don't think its any large secret that BB's have constantly recycled old hardware with minor improvements into "new" phones. That was their business model for years.. and the reason they are about as relevant as the Delorian is nowadays.

I love how everyone is complaining that BlackBerry phones of three years ago weren't getting any better and completely ifnoring all the new phones that have come out in recent months.

[avt123]

You're contradicting yourself - "They halted evolution for 4 years" "except the Storm and Torch because they were new form factors for BlackBerry". So while some of their phones evolved very little, the lineup as a whole added new form factors and features. And it continues to grow - yet another Torch form factor, a new Torch 9810, the new Bold, new Curve, etc...

You're saying RIM is not evoloving, have you not noticed the new phones?

If you read wat I actually said, I am talking about one specific line of product evolution, the Bold. I said the Storm and Torch were totally different form factors. But, if you wanna play that game, let's play it.

The Torch is a Bold with a slide out keyboard and a Storm screen. The Torch uses the same exact hardware as the Bold of old (not talking about new OS 7 Torch). The Torch uses the same exact screen as the Storm.

The Storm 1 and 2 are the same exact device with minor upgrades. The Storm 2 has a better screen (surepress works much better) and I believe a camera upgrade as well as WiFi.

The new Torch is NOT a new form factor. It is a Storm without surepress. You call that new? It is just rebranded. That is NOT a new form factor. How can you say it is? You have to be blind or never seen a Storm before.

The only new form factor of OS 7 devices is the 9900. It provides the typical experience of a QWERTY BB like the standard Bold, with the addition to a touchscreen. That is new. No other BB before this had this form. Same goes for the 9800 and 9500. Those were new forms.

And if you go back to what you quoted me on, I wasn't talking about form factor. I was talking about hardware. Totally different category. I said the Torch and Storm were exceptions. Once again, I was talking abou the Bold line, the flagship line.

[avt123]

I love how everyone is complaining that BlackBerry phones of three years ago weren't getting any better and completely ifnoring all the new phones that have come out in recent months.

It's because these are the first BBs that have upgrades that are worth a damn. You obviously aren't paying any attention to the main point.

These devices are the only devices RIM has made in the last 4 years that have considerably large upgrades.

What else are we going to compare them to from RIM? Let me guess, the older models... And if you look at the older models, the upgrades are extremely minor.