[BlackBerryUserBB]

The Buzz: Is RIM a screaming bargain or the next Palm? - Aug. 23, 2010

[Rootbrian]

Not good. Come on RIM, whip some ***!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Fubaz]

I've lost my shirt on RIM stock

Once it dips to $45 someone will buy them out then we are f'd

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[_StephenBB81]

I've lost my shirt on RIM stock

Once it dips to $45 someone will buy them out then we are f'd

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

This is truly laughable!!

They still have a 23B market cap, no one is going to through even 15B for RIM, if the shares fall into the high teens, then you can start talking about a buy out,

But RIM is the one buying itself out, they are doing a mass share buy back trying to take control of as much as 10% of the out standing shares. you can't do that if you are in the process of going bankrupt

[DaPhoneking]

RIM isn't going anywhere...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[MOTH477]

This is truly laughable!!

They still have a 23B market cap, no one is going to through even 15B for RIM, if the shares fall into the high teens, then you can start talking about a buy out,

But RIM is the one buying itself out, they are doing a mass share buy back trying to take control of as much as 10% of the out standing shares. you can't do that if you are in the process of going bankrupt

Its not about market capitalization it's about VALUATION. This determines what Microsoft will be willing to pay for RIM. RIMs market cap could be high but if nobody values them at that high point then they are in trouble. Nonetheless, I am routing for RIM to stay strong

[Radius]

It's about perception, how people whine that some foreign government can monitor PIN messages so obviously RIM is an evil company and they lose investors.

People are too self righteous for their own good.

As for the Torch not selling so well, I think RIM's only mistake was releasing in one single country whereas most other phones release all over the world at once. I have to wonder what they were thinking there.

[Radius]

Just a quick look at the numbers, in the last month Apple has gone from 265 to 240 and RIM has gone from 58 to 48. A quick look at the big picture shows stocks dropping across the board right now as well, the economy is not doing so well in North America.

[Thud Hardsmack]

It's about perception, how people whine that some foreign government can monitor PIN messages so obviously RIM is an evil company and they lose investors.

People are too self righteous for their own good.

As for the Torch not selling so well, I think RIM's only mistake was releasing in one single country whereas most other phones release all over the world at once. I have to wonder what they were thinking there.

Not to mention that the Torch was released on AT&T, and that it's after the release of the iPhone4 - I'd like to think that sales may have been much higher otherwise, since a ton of customers have already switched carriers to get the new iPhone.

[heartspeace]

The Buzz: Is RIM a screaming bargain or the next Palm? - Aug. 23, 2010

Yea, I wrote about this as many others have. Some people wish to ignore it, some wish to say its not true, and some say it is. Looking at the less then 10,000 apps for blackberrys, 70,000 apps for Android phones now (it has been out what, a year?) and 150,000 apps for iphone... developers just are not developing for it. I suspect that is the OS's fault and device capabilities fault. I mean really, less than 10,000 apps?

It's not like the blackberrys are not cheap - you can get them for either $99 or $0.01 off amazon with contract, and thats for the 9800.

So either people are not buying enough BB's for developers to focus on them, or the OS is just a b*tch to develop for, or developers see grander opportunities on the other phones. Android phones are suppose to sell 55 million this year collectively. Thats a HUGE market, larger than Apple's.

It's like the old MAC/Windows story. Bill Gates focused on developers and capabilities for them, the best tools etc. I remember when years ago I simply asked Microsoft for help getting my company into the new (1.0) .net framework. They gave free copies of all the professional versions of the software, and a set of books and videos to each of the developers and came in and did training for us - all to help with .NET and now .net is arguably one of the best, if not the best, platforms to develop for (Java is also good so lets not start that debate please ). The point is MS made is easier and easier to develop for - and they are doing it again with their W7 for phones. I kinda counted them out - but am not so sure now with over 60 game companies pushing out top titles for Microsoft's phones (e.g. Halo etc). To me that's amazing - its where Android is trying to go and why Sony is using Android to do the same as MS except PS3 style.

Remember what pushed PC's capabilities for many years were games. Always needed more power. The same is true with phones. Market research shows this is the next big push for the gaming industry.

So you say, big deal, we dont care about games - but that's missing the point. The point is the hardware advancements and software advancements that have to go with the games, which makes the phones much much more advanced in every aspect.

So where does RIM stand on this? Unfortunately even with the desktop business market the missed the boat again - releasing Blackberry Desktop that is completely incompatible with Microsoft Office 64 bit and 64 bit bluetooth stacks. This is their bread and butter - and most corporations that are buying new equipment are making the move to 64 bit - as many have over the past few years as well. The consumer market is the same - most systems now ship with 64 bit vs 32 bit.

Let me say this next part very clearly, ITS NOT THAT HARD TO MOVE FROM 32 bit to 64 bit. I have led large scale projects and been down in the trenches doing such things. Now, if the original code was horrifically written - then yes, it could be horrible - but they said that BD6 was new - rewritten... so I just don't understand things there.

There just isnt an excuse and this is why RIM needs to do what I said in my post regarding the 9800 making RIM's obsolescence official. (see: http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/ri...9800-a-517871/ ) They really need to get new developers/management to fix these problems quickly because everyone else is way ahead.

HP

[COMEatMEbro]

I've seen this article before and it does look pretty bad for rim but you have to take everything with a grain of salt, because everyone loves to talk about the worst case scenario. The bottom line is that rim is still putting out quality devices (love my 9780) that serve their purpose.

That being said, suggestions in the above post hold a lot of merit. An amazing game changer bb might even be able to convert some itoy/android fanboys.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Thud Hardsmack]

Yea, I wrote about this as many others have. Some people wish to ignore it, some wish to say its not true, and some say it is. Looking at the less then 10,000 apps for blackberrys, 70,000 apps for Android phones now (it has been out what, a year?) and 150,000 apps for iphone... developers just are not developing for it. I suspect that is the OS's fault and device capabilities fault. I mean really, less than 10,000 apps?

It's not like the blackberrys are not cheap - you can get them for either $99 or $0.01 off amazon with contract, and thats for the 9800.

So either people are not buying enough BB's for developers to focus on them, or the OS is just a b*tch to develop for, or developers see grander opportunities on the other phones. Android phones are suppose to sell 55 million this year collectively. Thats a HUGE market, larger than Apple's.

It's like the old MAC/Windows story. Bill Gates focused on developers and capabilities for them, the best tools etc. I remember when years ago I simply asked Microsoft for help getting my company into the new (1.0) .net framework. They gave free copies of all the professional versions of the software, and a set of books and videos to each of the developers and came in and did training for us - all to help with .NET and now .net is arguably one of the best, if not the best, platforms to develop for (Java is also good so lets not start that debate please ). The point is MS made is easier and easier to develop for - and they are doing it again with their W7 for phones. I kinda counted them out - but am not so sure now with over 60 game companies pushing out top titles for Microsoft's phones (e.g. Halo etc). To me that's amazing - its where Android is trying to go and why Sony is using Android to do the same as MS except PS3 style.

Remember what pushed PC's capabilities for many years were games. Always needed more power. The same is true with phones. Market research shows this is the next big push for the gaming industry.

So you say, big deal, we dont care about games - but that's missing the point. The point is the hardware advancements and software advancements that have to go with the games, which makes the phones much much more advanced in every aspect.

So where does RIM stand on this? Unfortunately even with the desktop business market the missed the boat again - releasing Blackberry Desktop that is completely incompatible with Microsoft Office 64 bit and 64 bit bluetooth stacks. This is their bread and butter - and most corporations that are buying new equipment are making the move to 64 bit - as many have over the past few years as well. The consumer market is the same - most systems now ship with 64 bit vs 32 bit.

Let me say this next part very clearly, ITS NOT THAT HARD TO MOVE FROM 32 bit to 64 bit. I have led large scale projects and been down in the trenches doing such things. Now, if the original code was horrifically written - then yes, it could be horrible - but they said that BD6 was new - rewritten... so I just don't understand things there.

There just isnt an excuse and this is why RIM needs to do what I said in my post regarding the 9800 making RIM's obsolescence official. (see: http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/ri...9800-a-517871/ ) They really need to get new developers/management to fix these problems quickly because everyone else is way ahead.

HP

The app development might be hindered due to lack of demand as well, and I use myself as a perfect example: I have ~8mb of 3rd party apps and that's all I have a use for. My device is for keeping up with work and personal life as well, there's no time for games/time-killing apps when I'm on the go. At home, sure. But then why would I need those on my device when I have a desktop and consoles? And speaking of, I distinctly remember having to cut short a subscription to the firewall and AV I was using when we upgraded said desktop and laptop - the developers had XP and Vista/Win7 versions but did NOT have 64bit versions - customer service said it was being worked on but had no eta, so they prorated and refunded.

[reverepats]

seriously guys....i'm hearing all this crap today about BB going under, and i try not to stick my nose in cause i dont wanna hear it. BUT ARE THEY TROUBLE???????..........SERIOUSLY, NO B/S

[Roo Zilla]

seriously guys....i'm hearing all this crap today about BB going under, and i try not to stick my nose in cause i dont wanna hear it. BUT ARE THEY TROUBLE???????..........SERIOUSLY, NO B/S

They're not in trouble, not even close for now and the foreseeable near future. If however, they can't maintain their current market share, and actually lose significant market share, which is wholly possible in the fast evolving smartphone industry (look at Palm 4 years ago), they could possibly be in trouble in a few years, maybe as few as 5 years. A lot depends on other players and their offerings and RIM reactions to them. For example, if Google releases something equivalent to BES but free or significantly lower priced, something like that could seriously erode their market share in the enterprise over time, if RIM doesn't offer either better products or the same products at a discount.

[MOTH477]

They're not in trouble, not even close for now and the foreseeable near future. If however, they can't maintain their current market share, and actually lose significant market share, which is wholly possible in the fast evolving smartphone industry (look at Palm 4 years ago), they could possibly be in trouble in a few years, maybe as few as 5 years. A lot depends on other players and their offerings and RIM reactions to them. For example, if Google releases something equivalent to BES but free or significantly lower priced, something like that could seriously erode their market share in the enterprise over time.

You are truly on crack! 5 years is damn long. If RIM doesn't unleash a siries of oustanding devices within the next year, they will be gone by Jan 2012. Morgan Stanley already downgraded RIM for the fact that they are estimating RIM will lose more market share than they previously anticipated this calendar year and the next. So saying RIM will be around 5 years from now doing the same thing is being overly optimistic

[Roo Zilla]

You are truly on crack! 5 years is damn long. If RIM doesn't unleash a siries of oustanding devices within the next year, they will be gone by Jan 2012. Morgan Stanley already downgraded RIM for the fact that they are estimating RIM will lose more market share than they previously anticipated this calendar year and the next. So saying RIM will be around 5 years from now doing the same thing is being overly optimistic

They have over 3B cash on hand, that'll see them through for a few years unless they absolutely tank, which is doubtful. 5 years is long, but unless RIM starts bleeding money from every major orifice, they can survive for a while, even while losing market share.

Also, they're growing internationally, especially in developing markets. So unless governments worldwide start shutting them down, they should maintain some of that growth. Cost is a big factor in the developing world, and BBs and Nokias are cheap compared to iPhones and Androids.

[Mr. Marco]

http://forums.crackberry.com/f2/slam...utlets-519026/

Yes. See the thread I created (click link above).

[amazinglygraceless]

http://forums.crackberry.com/f40/rim...rouble-518850/