[Roo Zilla]

For everyone wondering about service fees, understand that you aren't paying anything extra for BIS...your $30/mo plan will be a $30 plan regardless if you use a BB or iphone, etc. With BB the carriers just give a $2-5 cut to RIM. Don't expect to be paying less for data if you switch platforms.

That's only in NA and Western Europe I believe. In most places, BIS plans cost significantly more, or offer significantly less data than other alternatives. For example, here in China for China Unicom, 96RMB (about $15) gets you BIS and 30MB of data, that's it. Contrast that to regular data plans. For 66RMB (less than $11), you get a choice of 300MB plus 60 minutes of voice or 220MB and 160 minutes of voice. China Mobile offers similar pricing, but Blackberries will be limited to 2G speeds, since they use an incompatible 3G tech.

I bet the consumer data plan will include everything you're getting right now, and consumers won't notice a thing. This is a carrier/RIM battle, not related to us.

The consumer data plans will probably go the way of other platforms. Just straight data, no BIS.

Maybe the new service plans will be for data backup/cloud services...you know, like how Apple charges for iCloud?

iCloud is free up to 5GB.

[notfanboy]

I totally agree with that. BUT it doesn't matter (to me at all) if I don't use it.

I was responding to what you said here:

Thing is nothing you mention is specific to Apple/iTunes. If we get a BBM desktop we may see similar things.

Are you saying you won't be using BBM desktop if it offers similar things?

Anyway, RIM already realizes that their current service fees business model is shrinking and unsustainable. Apple and Amazon get their "service fees" by getting a cut from storefront purchases. Google mostly from ads and partially from storefront. Microsoft gets it from licensing OS and software and minimally from storefront. RIM will need a similar source of revenue.

[stardotstar]

Bye Bye Blackberry!

[the_sleuth]

We're all just speculating at this point until the service plans are revealed on Jan. 30th. Nevertheless, I speculate it will be like this:

1. Default -- No NOC service fee (for most consumers)
2. SME NOC service fee (for small business owners or consumers who want medium level security, device management and so forth)
3. Corporate NOC service fee (for large corporations and government agencies with very high level of security, device management and so forth)

As others have suggested, RIM will try to compensate for the shrinking of NOC fees with services for cars, BBM music, BBM video, BBM TV, BBM Pay, and so forth. But I think the NOC fees will shrink as BB users switch to BB10. Will the service fees ever again reach about $1 billion in revenue per quarter? Not for sometime until RIM gets the fees to services mix right.

Just my two cents.

I really hope they don't throw these pricing tiers to carriers. Imagine how confusing that will be to get a BB10 plan:

"Hi I want the awesome BB10 phone"
"Ok, do you want it with BBM, with data compression, with seecurity..."
"ugh what does it matter? Why do I have to pick and choose now?"
"....?..."
"I'll just get something else"...

They shouldn't split BBM from the BlackBerry experience, and they shouldn't split their service offerings and make consumers pick. It will be too confusing.

If they have to tier price their service fees, why couldn't they do it based on volume? First 10M $.50 fee/device, next 10M $1.00/device... etc etc. That way smaller carriers will have smaller fees, and as BB10 gains popularity, the service revenues will pick up...

[anon(4018671)]

I was responding to what you said here:



Are you saying you won't be using BBM desktop if it offers similar things?

Anyway, RIM already realizes that their current service fees business model is shrinking and unsustainable. Apple and Amazon get their "service fees" by getting a cut from storefront purchases. Google mostly from ads and partially from storefront. Microsoft gets it from licensing OS and software and minimally from storefront. RIM will need a similar source of revenue.

What I mean is that lots of people don't like using iTunes and if BB made BBM desktop a better experience that might be another reason to get people using BBM again. BBM Music could potentially be used on the desktop but they do need a better media catalogue to offer. With all the services BBM desktop "could" have its not such a bad idea to go cross-platform but it has to be top notch.

Right now I only use Desktop Manager to back up, for me they need to make it load any playlist and push those songs to my device at minimum to make it useful. In the amount of time it takes to open the DM I can drag most of the files to the SD card. There are lots of things they could do to make it less boring but will they?

[ADGrant]

What I mean is that lots of people don't like using iTunes and if BB made BBM desktop a better experience that might be another reason to get people using BBM again. BBM Music could potentially be used on the desktop but they do need a better media catalogue to offer. With all the services BBM desktop "could" have its not such a bad idea to go cross-platform but it has to be top notch.

Right now I only use Desktop Manager to back up, for me they need to make it load any playlist and push those songs to my device at minimum to make it useful. In the amount of time it takes to open the DM I can drag most of the files to the SD card. There are lots of things they could do to make it less boring but will they?

I would prefer not to sync with the desktop at all.

[Jonesy1966]

We're already paying for BIS/BES either surreptitiously in our billing or as a line item, we also pay a premium for our hardware. Why do we need to pay more?

[anon(4018671)]

I would prefer not to sync with the desktop at all.

what do you mean? To me sync is a bad word.

[livejam]

Ah, thanks, I should have stated my situation is in the US, thanks for the info about how overseas plans work. And I should've specified Apple charging on more storage options above the basic, but that is what I believe RIM can do- offer a basic set that is upgradable depending on need.

[Lendo]

honestly i think ad based BBM is a horrible idea

I'm not a big fan of ad based anything LOL

[bmantz65]

Maybe RIM is giving carriers a break on the fee in exchange for big volume of BB10 phones and lots of advertising..?

Does anyone know how much RIM will make on video and music purchases through BB World? Apple keeps a 70% cut on songs through iTunes.

[Roo Zilla]

Maybe RIM is giving carriers a break on the fee in exchange for big volume of BB10 phones and lots of advertising..?

Does anyone know how much RIM will make on video and music purchases through BB World? Apple keeps a 70% cut on songs through iTunes.

Hellznaw!!! Apple keeps 30% on apps. For songs, they get less than 20%.

[timmy t]

They'll have to find something to replace the 36% of revenue they earned from service fees. The main reason the stock is taking a beating tonight is because everyone knows that service revenue is going to take a massive hit. Carriers no longer want or need to absorb the RinTax. RIM need to announce some plans, see how people react, and adjust from there. I don't see people paying extra for BBM tho and we all know the carriers won't continue to absorb the costs. This will come as a shock to a lot of blackberry users if they start to see new junk fees on their bills.


Sent from my 4s using TapaTalk

How about the money they will have due to their providing the secure element portion of all Canadian carriers' electronic wallet transactions?

[onvisa]

Let me tell if rim drops the Rimtax, i bet the carriers will keep it and charge you a dollar more per months.

[trsbbs]

Why would I pay for a non-cross platform chat client?

Maybe go with a free basic. Then have a premium rate with voice and video.

Drop the ad idea. It will only degrade the current BBM status. Which in the U.S. is not near as popular or used. Haven't had it for some time now.

Make it ad free, value filled, cross platform, feature rich and only charge for the voice/video usage.


Be very careful with this Thor.

Tim


Sent from my BlackBerry 9850

[lnichols]

Why would I pay for a non-cross platform chat client?

Maybe go with a free basic. Then have a premium rate with voice and video.

Drop the ad idea. It will only degrade the current BBM status. Which in the U.S. is not near as popular or used. Haven't had it for some time now.

Make it ad free, value filled, cross platform, feature rich and only charge for the voice/video usage.


Be very careful with this Thor.

Tim


Sent from my BlackBerry 9850

Charge the other platforms if it goes cross-platform. I think they'd pay $1 per month for a cross platform chat app that doesn't suck, and has voice and video support too. Keep it "free" for BB users. They have carrier billing now so they could work with carriers to make it part of the other platform users bills.

[Dapper37]

To say Rims data compression has no value is the same as saying there's no need for a Walmart. It's a commodity now. Sweet! Small things sell large! RIM needs to start selling it as one. Cross platform offerings are needed and coming!!

[samab]

To say Rims data compression has no value is the same as saying there's no need for a Walmart. It's a commodity now. Sweet! Small things sell large! RIM needs to start selling it as one. Cross platform offerings are needed and coming!!

Data compression has zero value in the US, Canada, UK and the rest of Europe --- because in the first world, the end users want to watch a youtube video which has already been compressed with h.264 codec (the most efficient video codec on earth right now). You can't compress a h.264 video further. If you want to use less bandwidth, the only possible way to do it is watching a lesser bitrate/resolution version of the same h.264 video --- which youtube provides from 240 all the way to 1080 resolution.

[Banco]

Data compression has zero value in the US, Canada, UK and the rest of Europe --- because in the first world, the end users want to watch a youtube video which has already been compressed with h.264 codec (the most efficient video codec on earth right now). You can't compress a h.264 video further. If you want to use less bandwidth, the only possible way to do it is watching a lesser bitrate/resolution version of the same h.264 video --- which youtube provides from 240 all the way to 1080 resolution.

You reckon? I travel all over the place and given roaming costs, data compression is absolutely critical to me. Colleagues with their iPhones turn roaming off because of the extortionate cost involved due to the amount of data they would use.

[Goint]

The Rim network is far more than data compression. I imagine that one announcement on January's launch date will be a new contract with a vehicle manufacturer for worldwide qnx vehicle service. That is a service revenue line that could add significantly to the bottom line. I also imagine they will announce a number of big business preorders from companies beta testing BB10 right now.

[samab]

You reckon? I travel all over the place and given roaming costs, data compression is absolutely critical to me. Colleagues with their iPhones turn roaming off because of the extortionate cost involved due to the amount of data they would use.

Yet your colleagues buy iPhones. That's the problem --- they are willing to buy the iPhone, use wifi to get the full internet and all the youtube videos. And they are willing to turn off roaming once in a while when they are away.

[samab]

The Rim network is far more than data compression. I imagine that one announcement on January's launch date will be a new contract with a vehicle manufacturer for worldwide qnx vehicle service. That is a service revenue line that could add significantly to the bottom line. I also imagine they will announce a number of big business preorders from companies beta testing BB10 right now.

QNX has been in 20 million cars already --- it's not a factor at all.

Carriers were willing to pay RIM monthly service fees because data compression lessen their network's load. But the end users don't care about data compression.

[andrew1953]

Got to be careful with this as recnt events with Facebook and instagram have shown.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

[sexybabe88]

subscription fee for cross platform bbm? no one is going to bite, except current bb users. whatsapp sells for a one-time fee on iOS and they only make it subscription based for bb users because they know bb users are more "willing" to pay fees above their normal plan. if they are going to make bbm cross platform, a subscription model will not fly.

data compression is only a means. a means to what? cheaper handphone bills. consumers don't care about the means they only want the end. can RIM prove that their data compression technology can lead to lower handphone bills? is the cost savings (after deducting rim tax) alluring enough for consumers to abandon their current ecosystems to move over to a completely new platform; or are the savings merely a handful of dollars a month?

additionally, i read somewhere that in general, people are a lot less likely to pay for a subscription than make an outright purchase. ie renting a house vs buying one if one has the means. thus another approach that rim can take would be to inbuilt the cost of the services over the life of the phone (2 years) into its present value pricing. in that sense, owning a bb phone in future would be "void" of the rim tax. it might even appeal to consumers more when they see that they get all these rim services for "free" just by buying a bb phone.



Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[Joy1980]

subscription fee for cross platform bbm? no one is going to bite, except current bb users. whatsapp sells for a one-time fee on iOS and they only make it subscription based for bb users because they know bb users are more "willing" to pay fees above their normal plan. if they are going to make bbm cross platform, a subscription model will not fly.

data compression is only a means. a means to what? cheaper handphone bills. consumers don't care about the means they only want the end. can RIM prove that their data compression technology can lead to lower handphone bills? is the cost savings (after deducting rim tax) alluring enough for consumers to abandon their current ecosystems to move over to a completely new platform; or are the savings merely a handful of dollars a month?

additionally, i read somewhere that in general, people are a lot less likely to pay for a subscription than make an outright purchase. ie renting a house vs buying one if one has the means. thus another approach that rim can take would be to inbuilt the cost of the services over the life of the phone (2 years) into its present value pricing. in that sense, owning a bb phone in future would be "void" of the rim tax. it might even appeal to consumers more when they see that they get all these rim services for "free" just by buying a bb phone.



Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

I agree that no one would want to pay for a cross platform BBM in its present form, we do not know what they are adding to it until the launch on January 30th.