03-30-11 05:08 AM
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  1. jd914's Avatar
    RIM has hit rock bottom with their crapsastic devices and OS, so they win this race.
    03-27-11 04:51 PM
  2. expidia's Avatar
    Not trying to tick off the Rim followers who feel that Rim is on the right track, but this article from March 25th is from Forbes magazine. After all, this is a "Crackberry" site, so I understand how many still feel Rim will stay a strong player.

    Is Blackberry Just In A Jam Or Is It Toast? - Great Speculations - Buys, holds, and hopes - Forbes

    It was a link at the bottom from one of the links I posted earlier. The article that had 5 or 6 analysts giving Rim a sell or hold recommendation.

    I agree with the author of the above link in that Rim has had a lot of time to improve their devices or introduce new ones against the newer devices which are gaining huge market share . . . but Rim has allowed themselves to fall so far back that they are now just playing catch-up!
    Last edited by expidia; 03-27-11 at 05:48 PM.
    03-27-11 05:44 PM
  3. 13echo4's Avatar
    lol not even sure this is a serious question? It renders pages a lot faster. It was a lot better BEFORE the most recent update but it just got the Nitro JavaScript engine added to it and now it's even better. It also works a lot better with touch technology, more so than any other browser (when it comes to double tapping/resizing and all that).

    I hope RIM can step it up for 6.1 like the leaked slides claim. Don't expect it to be iPhone good but anything remotely close would be awesome enough.
    Lmao, sure is a serious question. I myself use and prefur bbs. That in noway inplies that I'm limited to only them nor does it suggest I don't play around w/ anything else. Iphones don't render pages faster. I've tried it w/ ip4s and my torch. Both going to the same page. I've even tried it with a couple htcs android and windows. Sure sometimes they get the page loaded faster sometimes I do. Never has it been a time lapse worth bragging rights. A second if that. My torch renders the same page as the iphone minus enbedded media. I will give yall that. The rim webkit 6 won't show enbedded media files. For you that might be a big it really isn't for me. Although it has agravated me a few times lately. My torch has a damn good touch ui. I'm not going to say its better than anybodies elses but niether is theirs.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-11 06:56 PM
  4. Bren S.'s Avatar
    lol @ New York Post.
    Yeah the source being NY Post pretty much told me how that little opinion piece was going to lean.
    03-27-11 07:03 PM
  5. 13echo4's Avatar
    The iPhone pages render correctly and the touch screen makes it easier to nav. Not much to learn on the camera, its just too slow for me bordering on useless, even using my quick launch button. I have heard my OS is slow compared to others but who knows.
    Looks to me there's plenty for you to learn about the camra. Might wanta spend some time with the torch. Check that navagation out.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-11 07:04 PM
  6. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Not trying to tick off the Rim followers who feel that Rim is on the right track, but this article from March 25th is from Forbes magazine. After all, this is a "Crackberry" site, so I understand how many still feel Rim will stay a strong player.

    Is Blackberry Just In A Jam Or Is It Toast? - Great Speculations - Buys, holds, and hopes - Forbes

    It was a link at the bottom from one of the links I posted earlier. The article that had 5 or 6 analysts giving Rim a sell or hold recommendation.

    I agree with the author of the above link in that Rim has had a lot of time to improve their devices or introduce new ones against the newer devices which are gaining huge market share . . . but Rim has allowed themselves to fall so far back that they are now just playing catch-up!
    BBos has reached a plateau and is transitiong to QNX.....

    One year from now with QNX being the best os in the market place with a caliber to demote ios/android & windows to amateur hour......what is anyone gonna harp on then?

    Lol...wouldn't be funny at that point where CB nation has a mass exodus to troll other forums with a mighty upper hand of OS superiority? ......we have that capability in short order.....although it won't happen...BB users are to classy for that! Peace!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-11 09:30 PM
  7. Sirhill's Avatar
    Like have said before analyst have a job to do and I do not blame them for some of the things they say in their articles. But when you only focus on what has happened and what is current you set your self up for a time when you are going to have to eat your words. RIM's future is bright and many know this but they want to look past that fact. This is the same thing RIM did with Apple and Android. As we all know things from history always has a comeback in a major way (ie look at the fashion world). Now that is happening with RIM, once the most dominate mobile manufacture, now poised to take back that spot but this time with a host of new tools to keep its spot.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-11 09:41 PM
  8. Rootbrian's Avatar
    That's just that one analist's view. Others opinions say different.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-11 10:14 PM
  9. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Like have said before analyst have a job to do and I do not blame them for some of the things they say in their articles. But when you only focus on what has happened and what is current you set your self up for a time when you are going to have to eat your words. RIM's future is bright and many know this but they want to look past that fact. This is the same thing RIM did with Apple and Android. As we all know things from history always has a comeback in a major way (ie look at the fashion world). Now that is happening with RIM, once the most dominate mobile manufacture, now poised to take back that spot but this time with a host of new tools to keep its spot.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Just wait until this scenario bbos<ios/android.......turns into this scenario QNX>ios/android!.....brace your selves..gonna be huge!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-11 10:31 PM
  10. aspenedelen's Avatar
    I love my BB (I have the Tour and bought a Tour for my wife). I have just pre-ordered two BB Playbooks (32) but am in serious denial here that BB will come out with something new for VZW or for that matter any carrier in the immediate future (other than the Playbook). If RIM were to release phones lets say every six months and give a variety for the consumer to choose RIM wouldn't be hemmroging right now. There is no variety in BB now or has there been for quite some time. For the love of the big man or woman upstairs get your lazy ***** in gear and produce quality smartphones that your consumer base actually wants to use and maybe you can make up some of that lost marketshare

    When you are down you have to innovate or be left in the dust. Innovate, innovate and do some more innovating. Hire fresh young blood that actually has a idea of what the outside arena truely wants in a BB. Once you find that out build it and get it into the hands of consumers. After you release that phone innovate some more and release something new that is abreast in the latest gagetry that bussines ppl want, average Americans want and make BB hip again.
    Last edited by aspenedelen; 03-27-11 at 10:47 PM.
    03-27-11 10:41 PM
  11. PredatorGanaz's Avatar
    The long time BB followers ,,, hail BB.
    03-27-11 10:44 PM
  12. 13echo4's Avatar
    The long time BB followers ,,, hail BB.
    I'm not a follower. It just so happens bbs is what I've liked for the last 7 yrs. So people just go around and just say stuff that they are clueless about. I actually think its funny that measure is Rim. Blackberry is the platformto beat out. I guess that sorta says it all. Rim mosta done something right.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-11 11:14 PM
  13. zensen's Avatar
    Cheaper cost effective phones are good for businesses and the company. Hardware is not the be all, its the implementation that counts and the upcoming qnx os is a great new direction.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-11 11:18 PM
  14. iN8ter's Avatar
    Lmao, sure is a serious question. I myself use and prefur bbs. That in noway inplies that I'm limited to only them nor does it suggest I don't play around w/ anything else. Iphones don't render pages faster. I've tried it w/ ip4s and my torch. Both going to the same page. I've even tried it with a couple htcs android and windows. Sure sometimes they get the page loaded faster sometimes I do. Never has it been a time lapse worth bragging rights. A second if that. My torch renders the same page as the iphone minus enbedded media. I will give yall that. The rim webkit 6 won't show enbedded media files. For you that might be a big it really isn't for me. Although it has agravated me a few times lately. My torch has a damn good touch ui. I'm not going to say its better than anybodies elses but niether is theirs.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    iOS and WP7 both render pages faster than BB browser. Android as well. Those browsers are simply better. To claim otherwise is just dumb, tbqh. It does not take more than 5 minutes to see that the BB browser is worse than Opera Mobile on WM, IE on WP7, Chrome on Android, the WebOS Browser, and Safari on the iPhone.

    What the OS6 browser did was make browsing on a BB less sucky than it was in OS5. It did not put BB on par or superior to any other mentionable platform when it comes to browsing performance or compatibility with mobile websites (displaying them correctly).

    Some people here have owned both devices and not played with them for 2 minutes with a clear bias. The Torch cannot even began to compete with the i4 when it comes to browsing, especially after the latest update.

    WP7 will certainly run circles around the BB browser (IE on WP7 is one of the fastest browsers, ever, and WP7 has Touch Control on par or better than iOS).

    Apple's Touch UI is better than the Torch's. You seem to think people are speaking primarily about the UI elements themselves. We're also talking about how well the touchscreen OS functions. iOS/WP7 are buttery smooth. Android is pretty good. BB is not comparable to the former two when it comes to touch response and touch sensitivity. They run circles around it.

    Which actual UI you prefer (as far as UI elements and look and feel) is totally subjective, but there are objective components IRT these touchscreen devices, and Apple is simply better than Blackberry in that regard - by quite a margin. Maybe they'll close the gap a bit in OS 6.1, but I can't really see it happening. Frankly, looking at BBOS and how it has "evolved," I just don't think RIM's developers are good enough to do it.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    03-28-11 12:02 AM
  15. Skeevecr's Avatar
    iOS and WP7 both render pages faster than BB browser. Android as well. Those browsers are simply better. To claim otherwise is just dumb, tbqh. It does not take more than 5 minutes to see that the BB browser is worse than Opera Mobile on WM, IE on WP7, Chrome on Android, the WebOS Browser, and Safari on the iPhone.

    What the OS6 browser did was make browsing on a BB less sucky than it was in OS5. It did not put BB on par or superior to any other mentionable platform when it comes to browsing performance or compatibility with mobile websites (displaying them correctly).
    While I think that the os6 browser is worse than the alternatives, it is still a good mobile browser and these claims of it being so sucky and useless are just another bout of the negative hyperbole that we have come to expect on this site.

    Now obviously they still have work and improvements to make on this browser and nobody should claim otherwise, but they are actually building on a decent foundation regardless of what some non-blackberry owners who for some reason can't quit a blackberry site seem to think.
    03-28-11 02:03 AM
  16. iN8ter's Avatar
    While I think that the os6 browser is worse than the alternatives, it is still a good mobile browser and these claims of it being so sucky and useless are just another bout of the negative hyperbole that we have come to expect on this site.

    Now obviously they still have work and improvements to make on this browser and nobody should claim otherwise, but they are actually building on a decent foundation regardless of what some non-blackberry owners who for some reason can't quit a blackberry site seem to think.
    I personally think it's useless on Bold/Curve formfactors, but any browser is. I think any device with < 3.5" screen is pretty bad for browsing, and I can do without the eye strain, personally. That's not exclusive to BB. That includes QWERTY WM devices with Opera Mobile, Small Screen Android Phones, WebOS, and Symbian Devices...

    Also, it's not negative hyperbole. It's just fact.

    Why do you people invest yourselves so emotionally in trying to hint at others that they should quit coming here? Lol. Sadness.
    03-28-11 09:06 AM
  17. i7guy's Avatar
    I personally think it's useless on Bold/Curve formfactors, but any browser is. I think any device with < 3.5" screen is pretty bad for browsing, and I can do without the eye strain, personally. That's not exclusive to BB. That includes QWERTY WM devices with Opera Mobile, Small Screen Android Phones, WebOS, and Symbian Devices...

    Also, it's not negative hyperbole. It's just fact.

    Why do you people invest yourselves so emotionally in trying to hint at others that they should quit coming here? Lol. Sadness.
    Its also a fact any screen size less than my laptops is uncomfortable for me to use. A device the size of an ipad is doable but then why even bother. Ill carry around my laptop. The playbook is the bare minimum size and at least it is portable.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-28-11 09:54 AM
  18. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    People have been forecasting the demise of RIM for like 2 or 3 years. How accurate.


    I think that once qnx is transitioned, you're going to see a lot of those expert analysts changing their story.
    03-28-11 10:04 AM
  19. alby4ever's Avatar
    I'm not a follower. It just so happens bbs is what I've liked for the last 7 yrs. So people just go around and just say stuff that they are clueless about. I actually think its funny that measure is Rim. Blackberry is the platformto beat out. I guess that sorta says it all. Rim mosta done something right.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    No it's not. It's iOS/Android that the smartphone industry uses as the level to aspire to.
    03-28-11 10:08 AM
  20. missing_K-W's Avatar
    No it's not. It's iOS/Android that the smartphone industry uses as the level to aspire to.
    Bbos<ios/android..........now QNX>ios/android.......what happens now?paradigm shift

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-28-11 10:24 AM
  21. sam_b77's Avatar
    Thanks for all those responses. It's always nice to see some intelligent discussions with out the typical Apple and even BB Zombies chiming in with their "if you are unhappy with BB than you must be a troll" rants.

    After all it's just an electronic device and many of us would like to be able to move forward into the latest and greatest new devices without being constrained to any particular platform or provider.

    No one can predict the future all we can go by is history and where we are currently. In regards to their stock price it had a little pullback last week because of it's future sales against it's competition
    Research In Motion: Analysts See Increasing Trouble Ahead - Eric Savitz - The Tech Trade - Forbes.

    My feelings on Rim were from looking at it's stock price performance over the past 12 months and seeing the increasing market shares of the Droids and iphones.

    The fact is Rim's stock is down -24.21% and the index of 500 stocks (SPY) is up +12.62% over the same period. This is certainly not a good sign.

    The system I've used to view stocks over the past 10 years is simple . . . An example of it's methodology is: in the winter when oranges in the produce section are totally tasteless and consumers don't want them, their prices go down (supply). Then in the Summer when they are tasty and flavorful again consumers start buying them again and their prices go up (demand).

    Stock prices travel up and down for the most part in the same way. If a stock is in "demand" it's share price goes up. When investors are selling shares "over supply" it's share price goes down.

    So the first thing many investors look at is . . . is this particular stock out performing it's benchmark like the market (the S&P 500) or under performing the S&P 500?

    Next, another barometer one can look at how is a particular stock performing against it's peers (stocks in a similar business).

    Rim is struggling against both those indicators. Can things change . . . of course! No one can predict the future. But from my 3 years of experience with Rim PDA's . . . they have been really slow to make changes. True, the leading edge can also be the bleeding edge but a company just can't sit on it's old devices and watch the other platforms gaining huge market share out from underneath them. The Palm platform was slow to change and Rim stepped in and ate Palm's lunch. When I started using Palm, Rim only made pagers.

    Now there are a slew of other devices on the market and many more coming and from the consumer end of the market, they want ease of use, good browsing and other bells and whistles like many app choices for a device that they are going to be owning for the next two years.

    Just a few days ago even Rim announced that they will be allowing Android apps to be down loaded to the Playbook, maybe their management team is not totally brain dead yet!
    Light Reading Mobile - Google - OS Watch: RIM Embraces Android at Arm's Length - Telecom News Analysis

    I for one, would only get a 4G device at this juncture even though we are in the early months of the 4G networks. Interesting that the Motorola Zoom tablet is offering it with a free 4G upgrade if you send it back to them. Now that's great marketing IMO. Who wants to be stuck on a slower network for another 2 years especially when VZ says at this point says the access to their 4G network will cost the same as 3G.

    If a tablet is only 3G now . . . I'd wait for a 4G version if you are going to connect that way. If I get an ipad2 myself, it will only be the $499 wifi version. I won't pay another $20 to VZ for like 1 GB on a separate data plan. My feeling is if we have a data plan already for our BB's, we should be able to access those minutes (or jailbreak it and use Tether).

    I'm sure the carriers will attempt to cap their data plans, but even with a 5GB cap down from unlimited, that's still a lot of monthly data for the average user.

    I did notice stronger comments from our Canadian friends up there, but I wrote some comments off to Rim being a Canadian company
    While your analysis of stock prices based on demand and supply and consequent impact on share price of a company are completely agreeable, there is something else that you did not factor into RIM's case.
    The fact is RIM is on an acquisition phase, which means a lot of capital expenditure to acquire companies like TAT, QNX, The Little Hippo etc. Not only is there massive capital expenditure but RIM seems to be also limiting these companies from working for outside people (see TAT's website). Which means the existing profit model of those companies is not valid anymore. So basically those companies will not be directly adding to RIM's revenue and yet they have reduced RIM's capital account by a fair margin.
    The result of this would be less earnings per share which is being reflected by the Indices. However, that does not mean that the market is anticipating a complete shutdown of RIM.(anyway the ability of the markets to anticipate anything is highly questionable). The market reflects a trader's mindset and traders by definition go towards short term profits ( a fund manager needs to keep his quarterly returns high otherwise his customers would withdraw the funds and hence the trader has to follow the market trend even if he personally has opposite thoughts about a stock)
    Of course the markets would respond differently when the result of RIM's acquisitions show up in a brilliant product and the product generates big demands. But that will not happen overnight, TAT,QNX etc are only just coming online, the change in RIM's product line will take at least 2 yrs, and a preview of what they will offer is the Playbook.
    So if I was a trader, I would be shorting RIM in the near future but will go long on RIM for the long term.
    Why would I short RIM today, cos I want to earn some money TODAY, and that would put food on my table today, IF I was a trader, which I'm not.
    I make my living the honest way and work...
    Just my 2 cents...
    Last edited by sam_b77; 03-28-11 at 10:31 AM.
    03-28-11 10:25 AM
  22. sleepngbear's Avatar
    While your analysis of stock prices based on demand and supply and consequent impact on share price of a company are completely agreeable, there is something else that you did not factor into RIM's case.
    The fact is RIM is on an acquisition phase, which means a lot of capital expenditure to acquire companies like TAT, QNX, The Little Hippo etc. Not only is there massive capital expenditure but RIM seems to be also limiting these companies from working for outside people (see TAT's website). Which means the existing profit model of those companies is not valid anymore. So basically those companies will not be directly adding to RIM's revenue and yet they have reduced RIM's capital account by a fair margin.
    The result of this would be less earnings per share which is being reflected by the Indices. However, that does not mean that the market is anticipating a complete shutdown of RIM.(anyway the ability of the markets to anticipate anything is highly questionable). The market reflects a trader's mindset and traders by definition go towards short term profits ( a fund manager needs to keep his quarterly returns high otherwise his customers would withdraw the funds and hence the trader has to follow the market trend even if he personally has opposite thoughts about a stock)
    Of course the markets would respond differently when the result of RIM's acquisitions show up in a brilliant product and the product generates big demands. But that will not happen overnight, TAT,QNX etc are only just coming online, the change in RIM's product line will take at least 2 yrs, and a preview of what they will offer is the Playbook.
    So if I was a trader, I would be shorting RIM in the near future but will go long on RIM for the long term.
    Why would I short RIM today, cos I want to earn some money TODAY, and that would put food on my table today, IF I was a trader, which I'm not.
    I make my living the honest way and work...
    Just my 2 cents...
    ^^^ Nice.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-28-11 10:36 AM
  23. alby4ever's Avatar
    Bbos<ios/android..........now QNX>ios/android.......what happens now?paradigm shift

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    First off, I love your posts. Don't know why. Just do. Maybe it's the supreme blind faith.

    Second, we still haven't seen how well QNX does in the market. I must admit that QNX as a bare OS/platform is probably above bare iOS/Android. If/when the Playbook gets an app for native email for Gmail and Exchange, plus a few other apps that I use frequently on my iPad, I'd consider getting one.

    We'll see.
    03-28-11 12:33 PM
  24. Dusteater's Avatar
    They are on a race to the bottom, I got my entire family and the company I work for (300+ employees) off BlackBerry because of their lack of quality and service.

    In my opinion, the Tour did them in. I have used BlackBerries exclusively for 6-7 years and loved them. But after the Tour fiasco, never again. It really showed me how little they care about quality and also how little they care about making a bad situation right for their customers. Shame that a great company took such a steep nose dive towards the bottom. But again, I believe it was their own doing.
    03-28-11 12:40 PM
  25. sam_b77's Avatar
    First off, I love your posts. Don't know why. Just do. Maybe it's the supreme blind faith.

    Second, we still haven't seen how well QNX does in the market. I must admit that QNX as a bare OS/platform is probably above bare iOS/Android. If/when the Playbook gets an app for native email for Gmail and Exchange, plus a few other apps that I use frequently on my iPad, I'd consider getting one.

    We'll see.
    Why do you need an app for gmail?
    There is a gmail app for BB, I dont use it. The mail gets delivered to my BB mailbox. The mailbox will be replicated to the PB on the bridge.
    If you use wif-fi then open the browser type "www.gmail.com".
    See no App required.
    03-28-11 12:47 PM
100 1234
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