03-30-11 05:08 AM
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  1. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    What's your perogative on tiny hippo's?

    I feel it's brilliant acquireing them! Most people will lean towards the notion RIM acquired them for their products.(Which they obviously did)

    I for one see what's realy going on...RIM has full intentions to harness their depth of expertise and specialties to creat premier sdk's, emulators, simulators etc....hence they'll be the go to guy's to turn RIM's dev support resources and support(SOFTWARE for DEVS) to a point of being a turn key operation....forgive my disconected grammar ....for I am just awe struck at what's coming! Tiny Hippo's are gonna turn RIM's developer software support into the best in the busness! WOOHOO!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I feel that it is a great acquisition. It's going to offer Dev's another very useful tool(Ripple) to debug & test applications before release. In time, this will branch to internal Dev, of which lot's of firmware emulation takes place. It will strengthen the current process and will most certainly help in the verification process. Again, it's another great acquisition and only shows that RIM is dedicated to improving themself & taking the market back in the near future.
    03-26-11 07:03 PM
  2. alby4ever's Avatar
    Good luck with your Atrix - You better be prepared to carry a car battery with you! LOL
    That's funny. Mine is at 70% after being unplugged for 14 hours. My friend's Atrix is lasting as long as well. I just checked the Atrix forums and many people are experiencing the same battery life.

    But don't let real facts get in the way of continuing the CB tradition of propagating ignorance.
    Last edited by alby4ever; 03-26-11 at 07:17 PM.
    03-26-11 07:14 PM
  3. missing_K-W's Avatar
    I feel that it is a great acquisition. It's going to offer Dev's another very useful tool(Ripple) to debug & test applications before release. In time, this will branch to internal Dev, of which lot's of firmware emulation takes place. It will strengthen the current process and will most certainly help in the verification process. Again, it's another great acquisition and only shows that RIM is dedicated to improving themself & taking the market back in the near future.
    I appreciate your input...I value your opinions very much! I'm just very pumped at the caliber of a software company they are turning into and footing in the market place..I see a very bright future ! I look above and beyond at the potential these guys(tiny Hippo's) are bringing to RIM's dev team and community.....with that the broader scope of how their talent will evolve the platform!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-26-11 07:17 PM
  4. expidia's Avatar
    Thanks for all those responses. It's always nice to see some intelligent discussions with out the typical Apple and even BB Zombies chiming in with their "if you are unhappy with BB than you must be a troll" rants.

    After all it's just an electronic device and many of us would like to be able to move forward into the latest and greatest new devices without being constrained to any particular platform or provider.

    No one can predict the future all we can go by is history and where we are currently. In regards to their stock price it had a little pullback last week because of it's future sales against it's competition
    Research In Motion: Analysts See Increasing Trouble Ahead - Eric Savitz - The Tech Trade - Forbes.

    My feelings on Rim were from looking at it's stock price performance over the past 12 months and seeing the increasing market shares of the Droids and iphones.

    The fact is Rim's stock is down -24.21% and the index of 500 stocks (SPY) is up +12.62% over the same period. This is certainly not a good sign.

    The system I've used to view stocks over the past 10 years is simple . . . An example of it's methodology is: in the winter when oranges in the produce section are totally tasteless and consumers don't want them, their prices go down (supply). Then in the Summer when they are tasty and flavorful again consumers start buying them again and their prices go up (demand).

    Stock prices travel up and down for the most part in the same way. If a stock is in "demand" it's share price goes up. When investors are selling shares "over supply" it's share price goes down.

    So the first thing many investors look at is . . . is this particular stock out performing it's benchmark like the market (the S&P 500) or under performing the S&P 500?

    Next, another barometer one can look at how is a particular stock performing against it's peers (stocks in a similar business).

    Rim is struggling against both those indicators. Can things change . . . of course! No one can predict the future. But from my 3 years of experience with Rim PDA's . . . they have been really slow to make changes. True, the leading edge can also be the bleeding edge but a company just can't sit on it's old devices and watch the other platforms gaining huge market share out from underneath them. The Palm platform was slow to change and Rim stepped in and ate Palm's lunch. When I started using Palm, Rim only made pagers.

    Now there are a slew of other devices on the market and many more coming and from the consumer end of the market, they want ease of use, good browsing and other bells and whistles like many app choices for a device that they are going to be owning for the next two years.

    Just a few days ago even Rim announced that they will be allowing Android apps to be down loaded to the Playbook, maybe their management team is not totally brain dead yet!
    Light Reading Mobile - Google - OS Watch: RIM Embraces Android at Arm's Length - Telecom News Analysis

    I for one, would only get a 4G device at this juncture even though we are in the early months of the 4G networks. Interesting that the Motorola Zoom tablet is offering it with a free 4G upgrade if you send it back to them. Now that's great marketing IMO. Who wants to be stuck on a slower network for another 2 years especially when VZ says at this point says the access to their 4G network will cost the same as 3G.

    If a tablet is only 3G now . . . I'd wait for a 4G version if you are going to connect that way. If I get an ipad2 myself, it will only be the $499 wifi version. I won't pay another $20 to VZ for like 1 GB on a separate data plan. My feeling is if we have a data plan already for our BB's, we should be able to access those minutes (or jailbreak it and use Tether).

    I'm sure the carriers will attempt to cap their data plans, but even with a 5GB cap down from unlimited, that's still a lot of monthly data for the average user.

    I did notice stronger comments from our Canadian friends up there, but I wrote some comments off to Rim being a Canadian company
    Last edited by expidia; 03-26-11 at 07:31 PM.
    03-26-11 07:22 PM
  5. buwee's Avatar
    That's funny. Mine is at 70% after being unplugged for 14 hours. My friend's Atrix is lasting as long as well. I just checked the Atrix forums and many people are experiencing the same battery life.

    But don't let real facts get in the way of continuing the CB tradition of propagating ignorance.
    Of course it would last more than 14 hours if you don't use it LOL...Even POS Captivate will last 2 days if I don't use it LOL
    People that I know with one sure are telling me a totally different story. But, of course I fully expect you to come back and say "No, I get the kind of battery life with heavy usage" LOL

    Maybe you have one of the super models and all others are just normal ones
    Last edited by buwee; 03-26-11 at 07:45 PM.
    03-26-11 07:31 PM
  6. Sirhill's Avatar
    So after reading many post in this thread I feel like a lot of people are adding words like "investors" into what the anylast that post these seemingly random thoughts they have been having. There has not been one report on what RIM investors have thought about what is going on in the company. These anylast only have to go on what they read not what they have heard or any press conference form an invester of RIM. So how can any one on this website or any anylast for that matter know just how those real investers feel. The answer is we don't. So RIM miss what the street said they should do...ok but that does notmean that they are in trouble...NO!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-26-11 07:36 PM
  7. alby4ever's Avatar
    Of course it would last more than 14 hours if you don't use it LOL
    People that I know with one sure are telling me a totally different story.

    Maybe you have one of the super models and all others are just normal ones
    Ok you caught me. That was 14 hours of virtually no use, with wifi, BT, GPS, auto brightness turned on.

    If it's heavy use, I get 14 hours. That's a lot of browsing, the usual FB, Twitter, texting, gaming, taking pictures and processing them with a retro filter (this takes a lot of CPU), and checking work email and gmail. And this is on a 4" 960x540 qHD resolution screen.

    It's not typical BB level, but it's actually more than I got with the my old Bold 9000 (best form factor - never liked the software).
    03-26-11 07:38 PM
  8. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Thanks for all those responses. It's always nice to see some intelligent discussions with out the typical Apple and even BB Zombies chiming in with their "if you are unhappy with BB than you must be a troll" rants.

    After all it's just an electronic device and many of us would like to be able to move forward into the latest and greatest new devices without being constrained to any particular platform or provider.

    No one can predict the future all we can go by is history and where we are currently. In regards to their stock price it had a little pullback last week because of it's future sales against it's competition
    Research In Motion: Analysts See Increasing Trouble Ahead - Eric Savitz - The Tech Trade - Forbes.

    My feelings on Rim were from looking at it's stock price performance over the past 12 months and seeing the increasing market shares of the Droids and iphones.

    The fact is Rim's stock is down -24.21% and the index of 500 stocks (SPY) is up +12.62% over the same period. This is certainly not a good sign.

    The system I've used to view stocks over the past 10 years is simple . . . An example of it's methodology is: in the winter when oranges in the produce section are totally tasteless and consumers don't want them, their prices go down (supply). Then in the Summer when they are tasty and flavorful again consumers start buying them again and their prices go up (demand).

    Stock prices travel up and down for the most part in the same way. If a stock is in "demand" it's share price goes up. When investors are selling shares "over supply" it's share price goes down.

    So the first thing many investors look at is . . . is this particular stock out performing it's benchmark like the market (the S&P 500) or under performing the S&P 500?

    Next, another barometer one can look at how is a particular stock performing against it's peers (stocks in a similar business).

    Rim is struggling against both those indicators. Can things change . . . of course! No one can predict the future. But from my 3 years of experience with Rim PDA's . . . they have been really slow to make changes. True, the leading edge can also be the bleeding edge but a company just can't sit on it's old devices and watch the other platforms gaining huge market share out from underneath them. The Palm platform was slow to change and Rim stepped in and ate Palm's lunch. When I started using Palm, Rim only made pagers.

    Now there are a slew of other devices on the market and many more coming and from the consumer end of the market, they want ease of use, good browsing and other bells and whistles like many app choices for a device that they are going to be owning for the next two years.

    Just a few days ago even Rim announced that they will be allowing Android apps to be down loaded to the Playbook, maybe their management team is not totally brain dead yet!
    Light Reading Mobile - Google - OS Watch: RIM Embraces Android at Arm's Length - Telecom News Analysis

    I for one, would only get a 4G device at this juncture even though we are in the early months of the 4G networks. Interesting that the Motorola Zoom tablet is offering it with a free 4G upgrade if you send it back to them. Now that's great marketing IMO. Who wants to be stuck on a slower network for another 2 years especially when VZ says at this point says the access to their 4G network will cost the same as 3G.

    If a tablet is only 3G now . . . I'd wait for a 4G version if you are going to connect that way. If I get an ipad2 myself, it will only be the $499 wifi version. I won't pay another $20 to VZ for like 1 GB. My feeling is if we have a data plan already for our BB's, we should be able to access those minutes (or jailbreak it and use Tether).

    I'm sure the carriers will attempt to cap their data plans, but even with a 5GB cap down from unlimited, that's still a lot of monthly data for the average user.

    I did notice stronger comments from our Canadian friends up there, but I wrote some comments off to Rim being a Canadian company
    Lol...would one of those guys be me? Lol

    I realy liked your fruit analogy

    I'll expand on that...

    As far as Apple trees go for an orchard(in Canada anyway)...the tree has a life cycle of bearing fruit...throughout it's lifetime it's produces prime fruit and it's best produce at midlife...at the end of it's life time it produces a diminshed yield and quality...once that occurs the orchard needs to be cut down and a new investment needs to be made in fruit tresses that will reep the best produce over it's life cycle....at that time it is replanted .......another apple producer could be at mid life and reeping high yield and quality...producing a better product and yield!

    Rim is in the position of the first farmer...now planting new trees(bbos-QNX)...and by the looks of things some pretty dahm good ones...lol...sorry about the orchard anology...I had to go there after the last post..lol...hope you enjoyed it!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-26-11 at 07:44 PM.
    03-26-11 07:40 PM
  9. Sirhill's Avatar
    So after reading many post in this thread I feel like a lot of people are adding words like "investors" into what the analyst that post these seemingly random thoughts they have been having. There has not been one report on what RIM investors have thought about what is going on in the company. These analyst only have to go on what they read not what they have heard or any press conference form an investor of RIM. So how can any one on this website or any analyst for that matter know just how those real investors feel. The answer is we don't. So RIM miss what the street said they should do...ok but that does not mean that they are in trouble...NO!

    RIM has done nothing but shown that they plan on changing the minds of those that have no faith in them. From the acquisitions to there small market outlook and there growing partnerships only shows growth not a company standing still or in any kind of trouble. If people think that posting these kind of threads is suppose to strike fear in anyone that uses a berry think again. Try and try again but these analyst and doom and gloom thread posters are looking at a company that took a shot square on the chin and has poised themselves to kick some major ***. Mark my words in a very near future these same analyst will be kissing RIM *** and talking about some other company.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Daisy1960 likes this.
    03-26-11 08:01 PM
  10. missing_K-W's Avatar
    @sirhil^^^ a man out for my own heart!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-26-11 08:16 PM
  11. i7guy's Avatar
    So after reading many post in this thread I feel like a lot of people are adding words like "investors" into what the analyst that post these seemingly random thoughts they have been having. There has not been one report on what RIM investors have thought about what is going on in the company. These analyst only have to go on what they read not what they have heard or any press conference form an investor of RIM. So how can any one on this website or any analyst for that matter know just how those real investors feel. The answer is we don't. So RIM miss what the street said they should do...ok but that does not mean that they are in trouble...NO!

    RIM has done nothing but shown that they plan on changing the minds of those that have no faith in them. From the acquisitions to there small market outlook and there growing partnerships only shows growth not a company standing still or in any kind of trouble. If people think that posting these kind of threads is suppose to strike fear in anyone that uses a berry think again. Try and try again but these analyst and doom and gloom thread posters are looking at a company that took a shot square on the chin and has poised themselves to kick some major ***. Mark my words in a very near future these same analyst will be kissing RIM *** and talking about some other company.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Apple, Google, [sarcarsm]Android[/sarcasm],Nokia stocks could go down and no one would bat an eye.

    RIMs stock goes down and it's chicken little all over again.

    For an analysist it's a good spot to be in, bash RIM and if goes under they get to say I'm right. If RIM soars like an eagle they get to either ignore it or issue a mea culpa.

    But if these analysts predict RIM is going to soar and it fails, these analysts are now toast.
    03-26-11 08:23 PM
  12. jshrz's Avatar
    The RIM isnt well known here, Our local paper did a big story on the tablets, and the playbook wasnt even mentioned.

    I love RIM because of their BB's, if i had money, i would buy stocks
    03-26-11 08:44 PM
  13. 13echo4's Avatar
    1 thing that isn't brought to the table is that Rim in the long run isn't loosing money. See I think it was really smart to release the torch with the 624 mhz processor but yet upgraded the ram. They didn't have to compete with a higher price to pay for the new cpu plus get the torch off the ground. When a company switches hardware every year loses profeits.
    Yall used fruit I'll use cattle if I may. You can't just calf heifers every year. Heifers have a higher chance of having problems giving birth. It cost more money getting a heifer to conceiving weight than it is to maintain a cow's weight. So if you sell your cows and calves off every year and breed open heifer every year you have a higher over head. By keeping records of a cows performance I can change animals out before it cost me too much money. I run a cow generally 8 seasons then sell her off. She generally retains some of her value. I've had 12 year old cows producing and still health but around 10 year old when they start going down hill fast. Hard to keep weight on them. You can't replace em the year you sell em then you lose a calf. So I put a heifer replacement in 2 yrs before I sell her just to be sure I have a producer replaceing her. This keeps me from being the first farmer. Electronics is the same. You can't switch every year and make your money back. You can lose money or break even for a couple yrs but then your going to be sucking wind.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by 13echo4; 03-26-11 at 09:37 PM.
    03-26-11 09:30 PM
  14. expidia's Avatar
    I don't know if this has any bearing on your cattle analogy . . . but I remember once after I had too many drinks at this bar and the next morning I awoke to find one of those "heifers" sleeping next to me
    03-26-11 11:11 PM
  15. hootyhoo's Avatar
    1 thing that isn't brought to the table is that Rim in the long run isn't loosing money. See I think it was really smart to release the torch with the 624 mhz processor but yet upgraded the ram. They didn't have to compete with a higher price to pay for the new cpu plus get the torch off the ground. When a company switches hardware every year loses profeits.
    Yall used fruit I'll use cattle if I may. You can't just calf heifers every year. Heifers have a higher chance of having problems giving birth. It cost more money getting a heifer to conceiving weight than it is to maintain a cow's weight. So if you sell your cows and calves off every year and breed open heifer every year you have a higher over head. By keeping records of a cows performance I can change animals out before it cost me too much money. I run a cow generally 8 seasons then sell her off. She generally retains some of her value. I've had 12 year old cows producing and still health but around 10 year old when they start going down hill fast. Hard to keep weight on them. You can't replace em the year you sell em then you lose a calf. So I put a heifer replacement in 2 yrs before I sell her just to be sure I have a producer replaceing her. This keeps me from being the first farmer. Electronics is the same. You can't switch every year and make your money back. You can lose money or break even for a couple yrs but then your going to be sucking wind.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Problem is that rim didn't put in replacements soon enough and now their herd is old.

    However , I'm suddenly hungry for a steak and a big piece of apple pie.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by hootyhoo; 03-27-11 at 12:02 AM.
    03-27-11 12:00 AM
  16. grover5's Avatar
    Ok you caught me. That was 14 hours of virtually no use, with wifi, BT, GPS, auto brightness turned on.

    If it's heavy use, I get 14 hours. That's a lot of browsing, the usual FB, Twitter, texting, gaming, taking pictures and processing them with a retro filter (this takes a lot of CPU), and checking work email and gmail. And this is on a 4" 960x540 qHD resolution screen.

    It's not typical BB level, but it's actually more than I got with the my old Bold 9000 (best form factor - never liked the software).
    I know it, I took mine off the charger last tuesday, my car battery died and i was able to hook it up to my atrix and fire it up and i still have 75% left...this sucker is smoking! All kidding aside that seems pretty good for what you are using.
    Last edited by D_March; 03-27-11 at 01:54 AM.
    03-27-11 01:51 AM
  17. 13echo4's Avatar
    Problem is that rim didn't put in replacements soon enough and now their herd is old.

    However , I'm suddenly hungry for a steak and a big piece of apple pie.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Really? Think about it like this for a second. What was the torch? It was put in the herd to see how it would produce. Proveing to be a solid device they'r moveing forward with it. Promising to spend alittke money on her. Rim doenst have to be what the other platform fans think a smartphone should be. All a bb has to do is do just what it does.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-11 04:34 AM
  18. Skeevecr's Avatar
    1 thing that isn't brought to the table is that Rim in the long run isn't loosing money.
    One thing the doom mongers on here seem to overlook with all their hyperbole of rim needing to stop the bleeding and so on is that what they have been bleeding recently have been increasing profits and record quarters despite their loss of market share in north america.

    The reality going forward is that unless google drops the ball with android it is going to keep the largest market share for the simple reason that there are so many companies locked into using it, both apple and rim are going to be minority players albeit with significant shares of an expanding market.
    03-27-11 04:57 AM
  19. elgolfman's Avatar
    This is probably a headline you won't see on CB's home page.
    You make some good points in this thread. I don't see a device out there that trumps my 9560 for build quality, speed of typing, and battery life - which are the most important to me. Agreed, the browsing experience is lack luster (s*cks), but it is not a priority to everyone. I am hopeful the Montana brings some quickness and a better (usable) browser. If you want a bunch of apps, good media/camera functions, and a great browser, iPhones and the like are the way to go.
    03-27-11 10:06 AM
  20. lnichols's Avatar
    If you want a bunch of apps, good media/camera functions, and a great browser, iPhones and the like are the way to go.
    Yeah but why is it taking RIM so long to get a decent browsing experience, and the other items. They've had 5 years since the iPhone and 4 since the Android to get that corrected. Some of us need to use a Blackberry for various reasons, but would also like some of these other features too. Hopefully the browser in 6.1 is improved, but I'm worried that BB internal and 3rd party development for BBOS will all transition to QNX soon after 6.1 is out.
    03-27-11 10:43 AM
  21. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Agreed, the browsing experience is lack luster (s*cks), but it is not a priority to everyone. I am hopeful the Montana brings some quickness and a better (usable) browser. If you want a bunch of apps, good media/camera functions, and a great browser, iPhones and the like are the way to go.
    I think that is harsh on the browser in os6, it should definitely be quicker but it does the job pretty well. As far as your other points, ios/android clearly win on app totals, but the media works fine on the blackberry and the camera is fine as well if you don't just blindly go by mp numbers.

    One obvious point I would make, if the browser is a major feature for you then the Montana is probably going to be the worst option out of the main three os6.1 devices since it is still going to be on a fairly small screen compared with the torch, storm or other devices.
    03-27-11 11:51 AM
  22. elgolfman's Avatar
    I think that is harsh on the browser in os6, it should definitely be quicker but it does the job pretty well. As far as your other points, ios/android clearly win on app totals, but the media works fine on the blackberry and the camera is fine as well if you don't just blindly go by mp numbers.

    One obvious point I would make, if the browser is a major feature for you then the Montana is probably going to be the worst option out of the main three os6.1 devices since it is still going to be on a fairly small screen compared with the torch, storm or other devices.
    The browser is horrid compared with the iPhone Ė OK, harsh but true. Itís better as BBs go, but not where it should be. Correct on MP numbers as they are meaningless in that most cameras now days have enough MP to print quality prints. However, the camera functionality is poor Ė and sooooo sloooowwwww. I canít even remember how many photo opís I have lost because it took too long to pull up, focus, and shoot. Given, itís a phone, not a camera. Would be nice if it was better at this Ė a feature I use frequently.
    03-27-11 12:55 PM
  23. 13echo4's Avatar
    The browser is horrid compared with the iPhone Ė OK, harsh but true. Itís better as BBs go, but not where it should be. Correct on MP numbers as they are meaningless in that most cameras now days have enough MP to print quality prints. However, the camera functionality is poor Ė and sooooo sloooowwwww. I canít even remember how many photo opís I have lost because it took too long to pull up, focus, and shoot. Given, itís a phone, not a camera. Would be nice if it was better at this Ė a feature I use frequently.
    Can you explain to me how the iphone browser is better than the os6 browser? If your csmera in a function you use a lot then why not learn how to use it. I have no trouble getting my on the ready very quick. Its on my top line of icons cause I have the torch and only have 1 side button. (Which I hate btw). Turn geotagging off and after you snap your picture zoom back out. Of coursenif you have advanced setting set its going to take seconds longer to load them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-11 02:00 PM
  24. elgolfman's Avatar
    Can you explain to me how the iphone browser is better than the os6 browser? If your csmera in a function you use a lot then why not learn how to use it. I have no trouble getting my on the ready very quick. Its on my top line of icons cause I have the torch and only have 1 side button. (Which I hate btw). Turn geotagging off and after you snap your picture zoom back out. Of coursenif you have advanced setting set its going to take seconds longer to load them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The iPhone pages render correctly and the touch screen makes it easier to nav. Not much to learn on the camera, itís just too slow for me Ė bordering on useless, even using my quick launch button. I have heard my OS is slow compared to others but who knows.
    03-27-11 02:22 PM
  25. dooodads's Avatar
    Can you explain to me how the iphone browser is better than the os6 browser?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    lol not even sure this is a serious question? It renders pages a lot faster. It was a lot better BEFORE the most recent update but it just got the Nitro JavaScript engine added to it and now it's even better. It also works a lot better with touch technology, more so than any other browser (when it comes to double tapping/resizing and all that).

    I hope RIM can step it up for 6.1 like the leaked slides claim. Don't expect it to be iPhone good but anything remotely close would be awesome enough.
    03-27-11 02:33 PM
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