1. Jake Storm's Avatar
    RIM not expected to compromise security - Tech & Gadget - MSN CA

    There you go. Chicken little can stop panicking now.
    08-10-10 12:30 AM
  2. phonejunky's Avatar
    There was one key point in this article that sounded Bias. The writer described RIMs actions as not succumbing to the pressure. I fully disagree that's exactly what RIM is doing they offering to let the Saudi Arabians monitor hordes of it's nations Blackberry user messesges. Now granted they can't shut off service like they probably want to, but that whole secure privacy thing it's customers once had will be no more after this happens. Now does this bother me in particular nope I agree with these people being spied on, but whoever the aurthor of this article feels that's this isn't RIM bending over for them when it is, and if the Saudis don't like this I'm sure RIM will take it a step further if possible.
    08-11-10 06:03 AM
  3. Jake Storm's Avatar
    But RIM did not succumb to the pressure!
    Here's the latest...
    Olive: RIM rolls over Saudi snoops - thestar.com

    "RIM will help the Saudis monitor selected BlackBerry traffic. But it will make zero effort to decode it, which for Riyadh was the point of the exercise. Indeed, RIM always has claimed it is unable to decipher its traffic."

    I think we can be proud of RIM for the way they've handled this.
    08-11-10 07:27 AM
  4. phonejunky's Avatar
    LMAO you have to read this for what it is Jake. Why do you think our gov endorses Blackberry? On aside of the hold you can place on BES and leash your employees, you can also get help in monitoring your civilians thank RIM says the governments now back to spying as usual.

    RIM will help the Saudis monitor selected BlackBerry traffic. But it will make zero effort to decode it, which for Riyadh was the point of the exercise. Indeed, RIM always has claimed it is unable to decipher its traffic.

    The above is informed speculation, of course. RIM, by longstanding practice, refused again yesterday to disclose the exact nature of its agreement with Riyadh.
    08-11-10 08:33 AM
  5. dodger_moore's Avatar
    LMAO you have to read this for what it is Jake. Why do you think our gov endorses Blackberry? On aside of the hold you can place on BES and leash your employees, you can also get help in monitoring your civilians thank RIM says the governments now back to spying as usual.

    RIM will help the Saudis monitor selected BlackBerry traffic. But it will make zero effort to decode it, which for Riyadh was the point of the exercise. Indeed, RIM always has claimed it is unable to decipher its traffic.

    The above is informed speculation, of course. RIM, by longstanding practice, refused again yesterday to disclose the exact nature of its agreement with Riyadh.
    You talk a lot but you don't make any sense. Either you've got some sort of personal agenda that muddies your posts, or it's your spelling that gets in the way, I can't be sure.

    But it just seems like you make a lot of noise and sort of hope that everyone else just thinks 'Oh, he's making a noise, he must know what he's on about'.

    I wish I could help people a bit more on here but I don't know much that would help others; you on the other hand just wade in with your mouth flapping, spraying your opinion everywhere, regardless of the fact that it doesn't help anyone.

    Maybe I should learn to be a bit more like you.
    08-11-10 08:27 PM
  6. phonejunky's Avatar
    Your typical Hater LMAO I love it. There is a tool on here called ignore, if you don't want to hear my "noise" use it otherwise get used to it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by CrackberryBrandon; 08-11-10 at 08:35 PM.
    08-11-10 08:31 PM
  7. dodger_moore's Avatar
    Your typical Hater LMAO I love it. There is a tool on here called ignore, if you don't want to hear my "noise" use it otherwise get used to it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I don't hate anyone mate, it's only a forum, I come here to learn about a phone that I bought. I hope one day I'll be able to pass on a bit of help to others.

    I'm just saying you make a lot of noise without actually contributing anything, I'm pretty sure you're aware of that fact too.

    You just seem to be contrary for the sake of it, or again because of some weird personal agenda, which of course by your definition makes you a 'hater', but then there's the clever device you have at the bottom of your posts which tells everyone else who doesn't agree with you to 'not be a hater!'

    Thanks for the advice though, I've got you on ignore as of now. Goodbye CrackBerry Brandon
    08-11-10 08:41 PM
  8. Reed McLay's Avatar
    In the not too distant future, we are going to hear from the people that actually know what is going on and can speak the truth, RIM. It is inconceivable that a Canadian CEO would lie.... Unnamed sources in the middle east... not so much.

    That will make for an interesting discussion with India and other concerned parties. This will play out and make a very interesting Summer.

    I am betting on Research in Motion to have a few aces in the hole yet.
    08-11-10 08:44 PM
  9. avt123's Avatar
    It is inconceivable that a Canadia CEO would lie.... Unnamed sources in the middle east... not so much.
    I always knew it was Canadia!

    EDIT- Aw you edited it... lol
    08-11-10 08:46 PM
  10. Reed McLay's Avatar
    I always knew it was Canadia!

    EDIT- Aw you edited it... lol
    LOL, got me that time

    I forget to spell check it before I posted it.

    08-11-10 09:33 PM
  11. grover5's Avatar
    Man, dodger you nailed it, very well said.
    08-11-10 10:06 PM
  12. phonejunky's Avatar
    This is mainly for all the naysayers, and the mod Reed who have some odd faith that RIM will defend peoples freedom of security and all this hoopla you like to believe about your beloved CEO's up there. When it comes down to it RIM is like every other company they will sacrifice security for money. Now read how thy will help india in spying on there people's bbm like they I believe they should

    BlackBerry assures India on access to services: source (Reuters)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-14-10 12:01 PM
  13. Reed McLay's Avatar
    This is mainly for all the naysayers, and the mod Reed who have some odd faith that RIM will defend peoples freedom of security and all this hoopla you like to believe about your beloved CEO's up there. When it comes down to it RIM is like every other company they will sacrifice security for money. Now read how thy will help india in spying on there people's bbm like they I believe they should

    BlackBerry assures India on access to services: source (Reuters)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    One more in a long line of stories that quote "unnamed sources", not subject to fact checking.

    In our World, persons that make statements to the press are held accountable for their words. In their World, shadowy intel sources run the story, to achive their own ends.

    The reputation and future prospects of a $30 Billion corporation makes that a serious consideration. Both Jim Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis stand by their statement:


    Customer Update - August 12, 2010

    In response to the statement published today by the Government of India, and further to RIM’s Customer Update dated August 2, RIM wishes to provide this additional information to its customers. Although RIM cannot disclose confidential regulatory discussions that take place with any government, RIM assures its customers that it genuinely tries to be as cooperative as possible with governments in the spirit of supporting legal and national security requirements, while also preserving the lawful needs of citizens and corporations. RIM has drawn a firm line by insisting that any capabilities it provides to carriers for “lawful” access purposes be limited by four main principles:

    1. The carriers’ capabilities be limited to the strict context of lawful access and national security requirements as governed by the country's judicial oversight and rules of law.

    2. The carriers’ capabilities must be technology and vendor neutral, allowing no greater access to BlackBerry consumer services than the carriers and regulators already impose on RIM’s competitors and other similar communications technology companies.

    . No changes to the security architecture for BlackBerry Enterprise Server customers since, contrary to any rumors, the security architecture is the same around the world and RIM truly has no ability to provide its customers’ encryption keys. Also driving RIM’s position is the fact that strong encryption is a fundamental commercial requirement for any country to attract and maintain international business anyway and similarly strong encryption is currently used pervasively in traditional VPNs on both wired and wireless networks in order to protect corporate and government communications.

    4. RIM maintains a consistent global standard for lawful access requirements that does not include special deals for specific countries.
    08-14-10 01:30 PM
  14. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Here are two statements, and both can't be true, so you figure out which one is more likely.

    1. The Blackberry system has no back doors and there are no decryption keys to give.

    2. RIM is CALEA compliant.

    If the former is true, then there's really nothing RIM can do for any government that will assist them in snooping on Blackberry users. If the latter is true, then they can, and RIM representatives are lying when they say they cannot.

    Since the US federal government has actually gone to lengths to prevent the sale of encryption devices that will prevent them from monitoring wireless traffic, I find it unlikely that they would allow 40 million plus users of Blackberry devices to carry on unmonitored.

    There most likely is a way to monitor Blackberry traffic. RIM just doesn't want to share it with everybody and the last thing they want is for everybody in the world to know that they do share it with anybody. RIM does business in 175 countries, it's just a matter of time before every single one of them will want the same access. Had RIM been smart, they would have just agreed when the first request was made, and asked for silence in return for cooperation. Then they could have hushed this up and nobody in the world would have had the slightest inkling that anybody was snooping on them.
    08-14-10 01:37 PM
  15. JoelTruckerDude's Avatar
    You talk a lot but you don't make any sense. Either you've got some sort of personal agenda that muddies your posts, or it's your spelling that gets in the way, I can't be sure.

    But it just seems like you make a lot of noise and sort of hope that everyone else just thinks 'Oh, he's making a noise, he must know what he's on about'.

    I wish I could help people a bit more on here but I don't know much that would help others; you on the other hand just wade in with your mouth flapping, spraying your opinion everywhere, regardless of the fact that it doesn't help anyone.

    Maybe I should learn to be a bit more like you.
    HA, nice to see someone else recognizing him for what he is, it's the whole "pot,kettle,BLACK" thing again, rather IRONIC coming from him. lol
    08-15-10 05:37 AM
  16. Reed McLay's Avatar
    The Associated Press: Threats of int'l BlackBerry bans echo US debate

    Threats of int'l BlackBerry bans echo US debate

    NEW YORK — Threats by the governments of India, the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia to shut down BlackBerry's corporate e-mail services reflect unease about a technology that the U.S. government also took a while to accept.

    The foreign governments are essentially a decade behind in coming to terms with encryption, a technology that's fundamental to the Internet as a medium of commerce.

    Encrypted communications are scrambled in a complex process to ensure that only the intended recipient can read them, using the proper digital key. This often takes place behind the scenes, without the user needing to do anything. When you submit your credit card number on a shopping site, the communication is encrypted. When you log in to your bank's site, that connection is encrypted as well.
    ...

    Encryption, however, poses a problem for law enforcement officials. They can intercept encrypted messages, but can't read them, unless the encryption is poor and agents have vast computer resources to use in unscrambling them. Traditional investigative tools such as wiretaps don't work. Canada's RIM and other technology companies stress that they agree to legal requests from law enforcement, but in RIM's case, it can't decrypt the messages on its corporate e-mail service.

    BlackBerrys seem to have been singled out by foreign governments because the devices provide an easy and convenient way to communicate securely. But there are many other ways to communicate in an encrypted fashion, and any government that's serious about squelching encrypted communications would need to go after them as well.
    ...

    The First Amendment made it impossible to restrict encryption technology inside the U.S. But the Clinton administration still tried to get the industry to adopt the "Clipper Chip," a device that would encrypt communications but leave a "backdoor" for the government to decrypt messages. The idea led to a public outcry and had technical shortcomings, and it was ultimately abandoned.
    ...

    That's somewhat ironic, considering the U.S. restricts exports of encryption technology. The restrictions are light, but were quite comprehensive before 1999. The U.S. was concerned that it couldn't easily spy on foreign countries that used encryption for military and government communications.

    In fact, until 1996, encryption at the level commonly in use today was classified as a munition. Companies that exported Web browsers and other software products had to make alternative versions with much weaker encryption for use abroad.
    ...

    Since then, the U.S. government has more or less accepted that encryption is here to stay. Wholesale access by law enforcement to encrypted communications may not be possible, but BlackBerry e-mails are decrypted at the corporate servers, and can be obtained from there with a warrant.
    ...

    Then there's always human error. The alleged Russian spy ring that was arrested in the New York area in June used encryption, but one of them also left a password lying on his desk, where it was found by FBI agents who broke in. That enabled them to decrypt hundreds of messages....
    Opps...
    08-15-10 02:07 PM
  17. alexgw's Avatar
    OK now India Government is also threatening Blackberry because of its encrypted IM. They are asking RIM to either let the security agencies to check the blackbery messages or shut down the service. It is a news that Government told the carriers in India to stop their service.
    08-16-10 07:47 AM
  18. lnichols's Avatar
    Here are two statements, and both can't be true, so you figure out which one is more likely.

    1. The Blackberry system has no back doors and there are no decryption keys to give.

    2. RIM is CALEA compliant.

    If the former is true, then there's really nothing RIM can do for any government that will assist them in snooping on Blackberry users. If the latter is true, then they can, and RIM representatives are lying when they say they cannot.

    Since the US federal government has actually gone to lengths to prevent the sale of encryption devices that will prevent them from monitoring wireless traffic, I find it unlikely that they would allow 40 million plus users of Blackberry devices to carry on unmonitored.

    There most likely is a way to monitor Blackberry traffic. RIM just doesn't want to share it with everybody and the last thing they want is for everybody in the world to know that they do share it with anybody. RIM does business in 175 countries, it's just a matter of time before every single one of them will want the same access. Had RIM been smart, they would have just agreed when the first request was made, and asked for silence in return for cooperation. Then they could have hushed this up and nobody in the world would have had the slightest inkling that anybody was snooping on them.
    They can both be true. The encryption between the phone and the server is encrypted with AES encryption and is FIPS 140-2 compliant. Supposedly not even the NSA can break AES at this time (though I have my suspicions on that). The traffic is decrypted at the BIS/BES, then encrypted again to send it to the destination blackberry (if it is a BBM message). So if the BIS/BES is monitored where all the data gets decrypted from the handhelds, then it can be monitored at that point before being forwarded on to the next stop. That's why the Saudi's want the server there so they can monitor the traffic at the server as it is decrypted.

    So technically if someone made a AES VPN client for either Apple and/or Android, and someone had an application that would send data via an encrypted tunnel directly between the two devices with an encryption key of some sort, then it would be even more secure than blackberry because it wouldn't be decrypted at a central server and no one could break the encryption. On the same token if someone could figure out how to do a secondary encryption scheme on the blackberry, encrypt the data with an application before doing the normal blackberry encryption to the BIS/BES, then it would be protected from someone looking at it on the BIS/BES.
    08-17-10 08:30 PM
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