09-22-12 01:09 PM
51 123
tools
  1. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Just one opinion, and it doesn't rule out the nuclear option (total sell-off of company assets); but from a purely financial standpoint, there's a lot in here that makes sense. In particular, it notes past market leaders that also missed the iPhone threat, yet they too still live and breath. It also reaffirms something I've been suggesting in several of these threads: RIM does not need to climb back to the top of the mountain in order to survive. That is not to suggest it's going to emerge as the sole owner of a tiny little niche product, either. There's a pretty broad area between the two where RIM can continue to comfortably exist and maintain a degree of relevance.

    Just a little more food for thought.

    Research In Motion: Negative Sentiment Is Overdone - Seeking Alpha
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    03-08-12 11:25 AM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    I don't know that Motorola is really a good comparison, since their value was established and fixed by Google's offer so long ago now.

    Nokia is the better comparison I think. Certainly RIM's balance sheet is much better now than Nokia's. On the other hand, though, Nokia's next generation of handsets are already available in the market. This gives them a 2-3 quarter head start over RIM. Now is that enough to overcome the weaker financials? I don't know, I guess we'll see. I think one of either Nokia or RIM will make a comeback. I doubt it will be both, and it's still possible it could be neither.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    03-08-12 11:41 AM
  3. dbmalloy's Avatar
    If RIM was privately held I would agrree with your post... However they are not.... The preasure to become more than a NIche Player will force a move to greater things... If they do not do well with BB10 they are SOL... The investors will start forcing change....

    Where RIM is a Canadian company... It is the federal government that would decide if the company can be Sold... As a major player i security and governement services appoval of a sale is unlikey...

    This would leave RIM's future really up in the air....
    03-08-12 11:42 AM
  4. sleepngbear's Avatar
    If RIM was privately held I would agrree with your post... However they are not.... The preasure to become more than a NIche Player will force a move to greater things... If they do not do well with BB10 they are SOL... The investors will start forcing change....

    Where RIM is a Canadian company... It is the federal government that would decide if the company can be Sold... As a major player i security and governement services appoval of a sale is unlikey...

    This would leave RIM's future really up in the air....
    Without question, virtually everything hinges on the success of BB10. And I agree, RIm's future is still very much up in the air. It's also not beyond the realm of possibility that they execute BB10 flawlessly and still fail. A lot is going to depend on what Nokia delivers with WP and how it is received. But RIM is not a walking corpse. Not yet, anyway.
    03-08-12 12:29 PM
  5. WES51's Avatar
    I like my Blackberry and will stick with as long as I can, but I would be very happy if I did not need the skills of an IT engineer to make things work after certain updates/upgrades.

    I'm particularly unhappy about the amount of apps in the app store that don't work properly.

    Can't Blackberry get a handle on that?
    03-08-12 03:40 PM
  6. RHCE's Avatar
    Honestly the people that come here and talk trash and say stupidity about the blackberry platform don't have nothing interesting on they android or iPOS that's why they throw negativity on crackberry and try to sound like they really are bb users.
    Jake Storm and maddie1128 like this.
    03-08-12 05:58 PM
  7. sleepngbear's Avatar
    @wes, bad apps are everywhere. It's a crapshoot on any platform. But as for requiring a degree on nuclear physics to perform what should be fairly straightforward operations such as updating the OS, don't forget that part of that complexity is due to the security of the platform. But I think we'll see a significant improvement in that area with BB10, mostly due to the more modular nature of QNX.
    Last edited by sleepngbear; 03-08-12 at 10:18 PM.
    03-08-12 06:11 PM
  8. sleepngbear's Avatar
    And of course my other favorite country heard from.

    I asked to keep this thing on topic, but as usual, it is impossible to hold a reasonable conversation without the usual few driving it straight to he11.

    Mods, please put this absurdity out of its misery as soon as possible.
    03-08-12 09:41 PM
  9. howarmat's Avatar
    thread cleaned up a little. Lets try again
    sleepngbear likes this.
    03-08-12 09:49 PM
  10. Peritaxis's Avatar
    And of course my other favorite country heard from.

    I asked to keep this thing on topic, but as usual, it is impossible to hold a reasonable conversation without the usual few driving it straight to he11.

    Mods, please put this absurdity out of its misery as soon as possible.


    Same few people driving legitimate threads into the ground. I'm sorry sleepngbear.

    The article holds good argument and i think it's mostly just bad PR right now.
    03-08-12 09:53 PM
  11. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    I agree with the OP completely.

    Did RIM deserve negativity after the PlayBook's release and the constant delays of OS 2.0? Yes. Did it deserve the negativity after the delay of BB10 devices? Yes. And when I say negativity, I mean criticism. Many took it too far.

    Does RIM still deserve the negativity? Absolutely not.

    RIM hasn't done one thing since the beginning of the year to bring on the scathing reports that some "journalists" put out. In fact, Tablet OS 2.0 and the appointment of Thorsten Heins, I thought, would bring some neutrality to the reporting on RIM. And, to an extent, it has. But any negativity on RIM right now is totally unwarranted.

    I'm not a conspiracy theorist, so I don't believe people have some type of agenda against RIM. But I do believe people are taking BlackBerry devices for things they aren't and can't see them for the things they are.

    Anyway, RIM will do the talking with BlackBerry 10 devices.
    Last edited by FlashFlare11; 03-08-12 at 10:23 PM.
    03-08-12 09:59 PM
  12. sleepngbear's Avatar

    The article holds good argument and i think it's mostly just bad PR right now.
    Little by little I'm seeing more signs of positive press, or at least not as much morbidly negative press. PB's OS 2.0 has gotten some decent reviews, and BB10 is actually being recognized as having the potential to turn things around for RIM.

    I'm not going to say that the bad PR isn't deserved, but I will suggest that there's been a lot of bandwagon-hopping the last 18 months or so. What more people need to realize now is that, when Thorsten Heins comes out and says no major changes are needed, it's because major changes have already been made. A new direction has already been set with QNX. That surely is not the magic pill that is guaranteed to return the company to greatness, but it is the course that had to be taken if the company is to have any chance to survive. I think the media and analysts are finally starting to catch on to that and are beginning to recognize the value of the actions that have already been taken but have not yet materially manifested themselves. Nothing is guaranteed, everybody knows it's going to be an uphill struggle. But I see hints of the sentiment starting to shift from on death's doorstep to having a chance for at least a modest recovery.
    Last edited by sleepngbear; 03-08-12 at 10:19 PM.
    03-08-12 10:16 PM
  13. playbookster's Avatar
    I wish RIM would hire new PR staff and a new CMO.
    03-08-12 10:30 PM
  14. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I wish RIM would hire new PR staff and a new CMO.
    Emailing research in motion might need to be done to inspire them, or more hiring, or position swapping. But I haven't worked for rim, so I wouldn't know.
    03-08-12 11:15 PM
  15. addicted44's Avatar
    I agree with the OP completely.

    Did RIM deserve negativity after the PlayBook's release and the constant delays of OS 2.0? Yes. Did it deserve the negativity after the delay of BB10 devices? Yes. And when I say negativity, I mean criticism. Many took it too far.

    Does RIM still deserve the negativity? Absolutely not.

    Anyway, RIM will do the talking with BlackBerry 10 devices.
    I am sorry, I disagree completely. Any and all negativity is completely deserved until RIM establishes BB10 as a successful player in the smartphone market.

    The reason is simple. Until BB10 phones are released, BB7 phones sales are going to keep going down. And the quarter before BB10 phones are released will be disastrous. And after all that, if BB10 phone sales don't meet expectations (which need to be sky high), that may potentially be the end of RIM as a player in the phone market.

    And any/all good that RIM has done in the past few months has been with the Playbook, a product which affects RIM's financials minimally, and unfortunately, only negatively.
    03-09-12 12:38 AM
  16. Rootbrian's Avatar
    addicted44 RIM doesn't deserve any negative press. Negativity affects how consumers view things, rim doesn't need it. If you don't use blackberries and are on another platform, why don't you try and use a blackberry for a few years and then make your point?
    Jake Storm and maddie1128 like this.
    03-09-12 12:46 AM
  17. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    I am sorry, I disagree completely. Any and all negativity is completely deserved until RIM establishes BB10 as a successful player in the smartphone market.

    The reason is simple. Until BB10 phones are released, BB7 phones sales are going to keep going down. And the quarter before BB10 phones are released will be disastrous. And after all that, if BB10 phone sales don't meet expectations (which need to be sky high), that may potentially be the end of RIM as a player in the phone market.

    And any/all good that RIM has done in the past few months has been with the Playbook, a product which affects RIM's financials minimally, and unfortunately, only negatively.
    I disagree.

    RIM took a heck of a beating when BlackBerry 7 devices were released. They were compared to not what was already out, but what was projected to come out in the future. Bashing of RIM from the PlayBook's unsuccessful launch carried over onto BlackBerry 7 device releases. At this point, any more negative reporting regarding BlackBerry 7 is simply beating a dead horse.

    Yes, RIM's success will ultimately be decided by the performance of BlackBerry 10 smartphones. But the negativity they are taking from the PlayBook now is unwarranted. The only thing the PlayBook lacks which every other tablet has is a deep application market. Unfortunately, RIM is doing all it can and cannot control third-party developers. All they can do is depend on PlayBook sales, which are on the rise, albeit at a loss. But the PB is on par or is better than many of its competitors in various different areas, again, only lacking in one area. But what matters here is that PlayBook OS 2.0 is the closest we have to BlackBerry 10. People are experiencing an early version of BB10 and are actually enjoying their time with it.

    So, whatever basing RIM is taking due to BlackBerry 7 devices (which were released in August 2011) is simply overkill. If RIM is taking justified criticism for PlayBook OS 2.0, that is fine. RIM, however, cannot be taking the brunt of the blame for the lack of app selection in App World. That should fall on the developers and RIM shouldn't be taking any negative press due to it.

    And as Rootbrian said, negative reporting/blogging is affecting BlackBerry device sales. Many people think RIM is bankrupt, going out of business, dying, you name it. No one wants to join a "dying" platform, and that's what many people think about the BlackBerry platform. While RIM is moving from the current Java-based BlackBerry OS to BlackBerry 10, RIM will continue to support the current crop of devices. The press is a huge factor in determining sales, and, right now, they aren't doing RIM any favors.
    Last edited by FlashFlare11; 03-09-12 at 02:25 AM.
    Bobcat665 likes this.
    03-09-12 02:22 AM
  18. Rooster99's Avatar
    ... But as for requiring a degree on nuclear physics to perform what should be fairly straightforward operations such as updating the OS, don't forget that part of that complexity is due to the security of the platform. But I think we'll see a significant improvement in that area with BB10, mostly due to the more modular nature of QNX.
    You mean security was the cause of the recent problem with the DM upgrade? The one that RIM withdrew, but never, ever commented on (or apologized for)? And security is the reason that syncing the Playbook with my Outlook Contacts and Calendar requires I go through Google Calendar and Google Contacts? I would never have thought of that, I must admit.

    And of course that makes it all ok! My wasted time dealing with bugs was well spent after all (sorry - couldn't resist the opportunity for sarcasm, it's a character flaw I know!)

    Seriously, I hope you're right about the improvement with BB10. I really do.

    - R.
    03-09-12 12:54 PM
  19. sleepngbear's Avatar
    You mean security was the cause of the recent problem with the DM upgrade? The one that RIM withdrew, but never, ever commented on (or apologized for)? And security is the reason that syncing the Playbook with my Outlook Contacts and Calendar requires I go through Google Calendar and Google Contacts? I would never have thought of that, I must admit.

    And of course that makes it all ok! My wasted time dealing with bugs was well spent after all (sorry - couldn't resist the opportunity for sarcasm, it's a character flaw I know!)

    Seriously, I hope you're right about the improvement with BB10. I really do.

    - R.
    Did I say every issue everyone ever encountered with a RIM product was attributable to their security model? No. Did I in any way suggest that it is all excusable, even if it is attributable to security? No.

    A look at the difference between installing/upgrading apps on the PlayBook vs the same on a BlackBerry phone strongly suggests BB10 will provide a much improved experience.
    03-09-12 01:10 PM
  20. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Thanks OP for this thread There is an upward trend I am noticing as well concerning positive feedback from the press community. Many of the harshest critics are warming up to the PlayBook. Everyone acknowledges that the pieces are coming together nicely and the foundation is solid. The foundation is brilliant. BB10 will be a great addition.

    Do to litigation from Apple and Microsoft towards Google, I envision Google's innovation slowing down dramatically with Android. iOS beginning this winter became void of revolutionary capabilities, reducing the platform to an evolutionary means. Microsoft doesn't offer anything that eclipses Google or Apple. BB10 is setting the stage to introduce revolutionary capabilities. I see RIM making up much ground. A real ace up RIM's sleeve will be the integration of Newbay and the NOC. Newbay offers a fantastic service, which they are experts in their field.

    What I find very encouraging is that RIM management is constantly acknowledging how they are learning so much from their acquired companies. This shows a willingness to grow and adapt. The acquisitions are being encouraged to innovate on their own accord, making for great collaborations. They have a tremendous amount of flexibility and control over their unique specialties. Even execs such as Alec Saunders is given tremendous room to do his job with a sense of freedom. The veracity of RIM's willingness to grow, evolve and adapt is becoming very endearing. This will be a great year for everyone involved
    03-09-12 03:53 PM
  21. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Blackberry is a fragmented mess, all but impossible to develop for in it's current state. Why should developers commit time and resources to a platform that will, in all likelihood, make them look bad?
    RIM has no one but themselves to blame for the state they're in. Crying about it is just sad. IMO.
    Well that's one opinion, which has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic. Next.
    maddie1128 likes this.
    03-09-12 09:55 PM
  22. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    Blackberry is a fragmented mess, all but impossible to develop for in it's current state. Why should developers commit time and resources to a platform that will, in all likelihood, make them look bad?
    RIM has no one but themselves to blame for the state they're in. Crying about it is just sad. IMO.
    Developing for BlackBerry 7 may not be something most developers are looking forward to doing. But developing for BlackBerry 10/Tablet OS seems like a worthwhile investment. A lot of Android developers who converted their apps to run on PB said their apps worked better on PB than on Android. If RIM makes it so easy to develop for PB, why not take advantage of it?
    maddie1128 likes this.
    03-09-12 09:58 PM
  23. tchocky77's Avatar
    Well that's one opinion, which has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic. Next.
    Well I clearly explained why I think the "negative sentiment" is NOT overdone and that it's a bit pathetic for RIM to be crying about it. So you see,...THAT's what it has to do with the thread topic.


    Thanks for quoting at any rate......since somebody's feelings were apparently bruised enough to delete my original post.
    03-09-12 11:03 PM
  24. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Well I clearly explained why I think the "negative sentiment" is NOT overdone and that it's a bit pathetic for RIM to be crying about it. So you see,...THAT's what it has to do with the thread topic.


    Thanks for quoting at any rate......since somebody's feelings were apparently bruised enough to delete my original post.
    Nobody's feelings were hurt; the post was out of line. As is this one. The only ones crying about the bad press are a handful of posters here. RIM is not crying about it, RIM is doing something about it. Whether or not what they are doing is enough to succeed is yet to be determined and still a subject worthy of discussion. The point is that people are starting to wake up to the fact that RIM's management have not been sitting on their laurels for the past 18 months.
    03-10-12 12:26 PM
  25. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Some people have "too high standards" "too high expectations" of a company. If you can't find a company that meets your needs, move on, or waite for thxt one.

    It's like research in motion, they haven't sat still, they keep moving on. If they're too "slow" or "low" for your expectations or standards, move on. No offense intended, no need to bash or flame.
    maddie1128 likes this.
    03-10-12 12:33 PM
51 123
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD