[h20work]

I see now. OS7 devices should be free or under $100 IMO.

Exactly. They are pushing a year old and priced way too high to make them attractive.

[Laura Knotek]

Exactly. They are pushing a year old and priced way too high to make them attractive.

The problem is that the carriers make much less money if they discount the OS7 devices, even if new 2 year contracts are required, due to the "BIS tax" that the carriers must pay to RIM. The carriers make more money on the contract for any other smartphone, since there is no "BIS tax".

[bk1022]

The problem is that the carriers make much less money if they discount the OS7 devices, even if new 2 year contracts are required, due to the "BIS tax" that the carriers must pay to RIM. The carriers make more money on the contract for any other smartphone, since there is no "BIS tax".

You don't need to discount OS7 phones. You want a tradeup plan so that a customer buys an OS7 phone at some regular contract price and then can tradeup to a BB10 phone at enticing prices. There is no reason NA carriers wouldn't play ball if RIM proposed this.

[h20work]

The problem is that the carriers make much less money if they discount the OS7 devices, even if new 2 year contracts are required, due to the "BIS tax" that the carriers must pay to RIM. The carriers make more money on the contract for any other smartphone, since there is no "BIS tax".

That's why I think it's up to Rim to take the hit, better to sell some product then do more inventory write offs.

[kbz1960]

The problem is that the carriers make much less money if they discount the OS7 devices, even if new 2 year contracts are required, due to the "BIS tax" that the carriers must pay to RIM. The carriers make more money on the contract for any other smartphone, since there is no "BIS tax".

Can you post a link on this bis tax? I searched, not here, and nothing much came up on why or how carriers pay this tax.

Thanks

[ridemaster]

To all those people that have a "Rim Lied to us again" attitude, give it a break, nobody cares about your lame opinion. sh*t happens, the delay isnt that long for an expected product that will far outperform any other platform out there.

We are ALL anxious.

Between now and then Rim will have lots of innovation for us.

[jd914]

To all those people that have a "Rim Lied to us again" attitude, give it a break, nobody cares about your lame opinion. sh*t happens, the delay isnt that long for an expected product that will far outperform any other platform out there.

We are ALL anxious.

Between now and then Rim will have lots of innovation for us.

hello Thor!

[h20work]

To all those people that have a "Rim Lied to us again" attitude, give it a break, nobody cares about your lame opinion. sh*t happens, the delay isnt that long for an expected product that will far outperform any other platform out there.

We are ALL anxious.

Between now and then Rim will have lots of innovation for us.

Wow, just wow.....

[Laura Knotek]

Can you post a link on this bis tax? I searched, not here, and nothing much came up on why or how carriers pay this tax.



Thanks

I don't know the exact fee, but the US carriers eat the cost, since the data plans cost the same for all smartphones. In some countries there is an additional BIS "bolt-on" which the customer pays.


Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

[bk1022]

Rim runs all of the BIS servers so they take a cut. The tradeoff is that BB phones use like a quarter of the bandwidth, which is excellent for carriers.

[tack]

I don't know the exact fee, but the US carriers eat the cost, since the data plans cost the same for all smartphones. In some countries there is an additional BIS "bolt-on" which the customer pays.


Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

BB data plans on Verizon cost at least $10 more per month, even if you use BES. Both the carrier and the customer pay on most networks. When we switched from BB to iOS and Android, we saved about $15k per year on data plans (unlimited data plans).

[andrew1953]

buying the best product that suits your needs at the time is a good strategy. However I have a lot tied up BlackBerry Product,that I dont want to abandon just yet. I can wait another 4 months passed September atleast-6 months tops

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

[qbnkelt]

Let's face it....I'm going to buy the first keyboard BB10 device. Historically speaking, BB suits me perfectly. More than any of the others.
I just want RIM to survive, I want BBM so I can talk to my loved ones across the pond. I want to have the convenience of mobile banking.

I want RIM to survive intact, as RIM. Not owned by anyone else. Not running Android.

I want them to execute as near to flawlessly as possible. Because it's close to the last possible second in this game.

[Laura Knotek]

Can you post a link on this bis tax? I searched, not here, and nothing much came up on why or how carriers pay this tax.

Thanks

The exact fees are not given, but I found something in RIM's annual report official documentation for investors, required by the SEC here:

RIM generates service revenues from billings to its BlackBerry subscriber account base primarily from a monthly infrastructure
access fee charged to a carrier or reseller, which the carrier or reseller in turn bills to the BlackBerry subscriber. Given that many of
the Company’s competitors recover their infrastructure and services expense in alternate manners, the Company is facing greater
pressure to reduce its infrastructure access fees. In addition, the infrastructure access fees charged by the Company may also fall
under pressure if the new products it launches do not utilize the network infrastructure in the same way or to the same extent as the
Company’s existing products. The Company is focused on developing an integrated services offering that leverages RIM’s strengths
such as BBM, security and manageability that will continue to generate service revenues. However, if the Company is unable to resist
these competitive pressures or is unable to develop a compelling integrated services offering that will continue to generate service
revenues and enable the Company to recover the costs associated with its network infrastructure, this could have a material adverse
affect on the Company’s results of operations and financial condition.

In the US, the carrier does not pass the charge on to the individual subscriber, since I paid the same amount when I had BIS as I do now with a "smartphone data plan".

[Laura Knotek]

BB data plans on Verizon cost at least $10 more per month, even if you use BES. Both the carrier and the customer pay on most networks. When we switched from BB to iOS and Android, we saved about $15k per year on data plans (unlimited data plans).

BES always is more expensive than BIS. However, BIS is not any more expensive than data plans for any other smartphones if one has VZW, AT&T, Sprint, or T-Mobile.

[h20work]

BES always is more expensive than BIS. However, BIS is not any more expensive than data plans for any other smartphones if one has VZW, AT&T, Sprint, or T-Mobile.

Agree, bb data plans cost the same as any other smartphone data plan. The exception being bes of course.

[Chrisy]

BIS is the most cost effective data plan since it compresses data! We get more for our money!

[Laura Knotek]

BIS is the most cost effective data plan since it compresses data! We get more for our money!

That is not an advantage to the carriers, though. The carriers would prefer customers subscribing to more expensive data plans.

[Laura Knotek]

Rim runs all of the BIS servers so they take a cut. The tradeoff is that BB phones use like a quarter of the bandwidth, which is excellent for carriers.

It all depends on the type of data. Streaming audio does not use less bandwidth on BlackBerry than it does on other smartphones.



I had BIS at the time and did not tether. I mainly streamed Pandora and TuneInRadio (highest quality stream) several hours a day.

[h20work]

I'm still grandfathered in to unlimited data on vzw so they do get an advantage from people like me. I think sprint still offers unlimited data to new subscribers unless they pulled it recently.

[Fuzzballz]

the delay isnt that long for an expected product that will far outperform any other platform out there.
[...]
Between now and then Rim will have lots of innovation for us.

Wow, Poe's law in action! Brilliant!

[kill_9]

Maybe U of Waterloo is not quite MIT or Stanford.

BTW, I heard Google and Microsoft always show up on campus to try to suck up the best and brightest at Waterloo.

I suggest you refrain from commenting on the s3xual proclivities of the University of Waterloo Computer Science graduates.

[kill_9]

I can agree somewhat. What happened to QNX being able to streamline development and being able to do it faster than other OSes? Seems it is slower.

The development team is inept, incompetent and lacking any ability to get the job done. The entire team from management to programmer should have been axed last year and replaced by competent developers and managers.

[avt123]

It all depends on the type of data. Streaming audio does not use less bandwidth on BlackBerry than it does on other smartphones.

Click to view quoted image


I had BIS at the time and did not tether. I mainly streamed Pandora and TuneInRadio (highest quality stream) several hours a day.

Yep I use to stream Pandora all the time on my BBs and I would use over 1GB a month easily.

[tack]

BES always is more expensive than BIS. However, BIS is not any more expensive than data plans for any other smartphones if one has VZW, AT&T, Sprint, or T-Mobile.

Not true in my experience. We pay more for BIS on Verizon.