[Strider2112]

First off,

I figured this topic needed its own thread, I very rarely post on CrackBerry and when I do it is usually good things (in my opinion). But, that's besides the point, the general atmosphere of CrackBerry right now is clearly not a good one.

There are a few things I need to say here, I am both surprised and not-surprised at a couple things:

I am surprised that the CrackBerry community, usually a positive outlook about RiM and BlackBerry, has such a negative feel about it. I don't feel at home, like I usually do, browsing through all the threads.

I am not surprised that the earnings call went so bad, and this is a sort of prethought to the point above; the reason I say this is because RiM has not been doing good lately, their stock is like penny stock, so CrackBerry has been sitting on the edge hoping for bad news so they could strike out and whine.

Now, of course I am disappointed that the release will not be later this year, but I (and many others on CrackBerry) knew it would not be released this year. I read an article by CrackBerry Kevin (always the most uplifting and spirited person on here) that wrought both doom and hope for RiM (BlackBerry's Painful Platform Pregnancy) where he states that RiM is not doing great (and hasn't been), but we should keep hope and support them - which I agree with 100%.

But to address the main issue here, as brought up by Kevin in the following statement, "And in contrast to RIM's former CEOs, we've been so impressed with Thorsten Heins since he took the reigns that we were not expecting a broken promise on this...[delay of BlackBerry 10]", I don't think there was any promise, I think that Heins was setting a timeline, or an idea for BlackBerry 10, and I also think (along with what Kevin later goes on to talk about) that we NEED to wait for BlackBerry 10.

I'd rather have a beautifully working, full-bodied and featured, machine later than a barely working, buggy, piece of junk now. So for now, let's keep our heads up, ignore all the nay-sayers, and hope for the best. What's the worst that can happen?

[Saiga]

Now, of course I am disappointed that the release will not be later this year, but I (and many others on CrackBerry) knew it would not be released this year.

Uhm what? I sat in a room within throwing distance of Thorsten and heard with my own ears from his own mouth "later this year".

Did you have some kind of insider information that Thorsten wasn't aware of? Or did everyone at RIM just lie to us for months?

[Strider2112]

It doesn't take insider information. It simply takes a knowledge of what these devices are, the thing that needs to be realized is this is a device being built from scratch, from the ground up, it takes time.

Here's a contrasting example:
A contractor says he's going to be at your house for 8 AM, so you take the day off work, and wait around, 8 comes he's not there, 9 comes he's not there, finally he shows up at 10 o'clock. Sure, that's later than what he said, but god knows what could have happened. This happens all the time, and has happened to me, I'm a contractor and there have been times when I've been off schedule.

The main point is, you have to expect things like that, there's no way you, or I, or Heins, or anyone else for that matter can exclusively say exactly when something as complex as a brand-new device will be released. At least Heins had the balls, and the dignity, to come out and say "we're going to be later than we expected".

[bk1022]

You misunderstand the gravity of the situation.

[3Dee]

The problem is that RIM doesn't exist in a vacuum - none of the other contractors are showing up late, and they're already using newer tools.

[jivegirl14]

I think your post sounds rather patronizing.

Personally I think the CB forum is taking it the disappointment as best it can and in the way it sees fit and in the right way. If you never post why do you feel the need to tell everyone how to feel? Let people feel and vent, they're entitled. I think everyone is quite aware of the complexity of the devices and most have been cheerleading for RIM consistently - mostly despite indications to the contrary and despite the push-back from the wider community. Whichever way you want to slice and dice it RIM has let its supporters and customers down - big-time. Many are disillusioned and many are going to leave at least for a bit. No one wants excuses - which are ten a penny.

RIM could have let people - supporters, those who believed in them down - lightly (as in earlier) and they did not. They felt it was OK for people to keep believing what they said even though it wasn't going to happen.

Everyone knows things get delayed, that's the nature of the beast. But RIM could not afford to have this delay, plain and simple. Things are not good, they are dire - and it's much deeper than them not delivering their new devices on time. They've lost credibility and they may very well be losing a lot more in the months ahead. We probably haven't heard the worst yet.

[BlackBerry Guy]

I'm a contractor as well, and your example is a scenario that plays itself out way too often in what we do. However, it's how one handles the situation that counts.

It's one of the top complaints I get from homeowners - one of my guys or sub-contractors said they would be there at a certain time, and then either are late or don't show up. Now you have an upset homeowner - they have no idea what to expect anymore because you can no longer meet the original expectation you set, and no one has told them what's going on.

The one thing I keep harping on the guys to do is call the owner as soon as you know you're going to be late (this should be known, well before you actually ARE late). Let them know, and there's a greater chance of them understanding, and less chance of them being upset. People are generally understanding if you tell them, and are usually are quite forgiving unless it becomes a chronic problem.

At this point, RIM is like the contractor who knows they'll be running late 2 hours beforehand, but doesn't call to tell the homeowner until he's actually 2 hours past the appointment time. This contractor also repeatedly has the same problem on the same job and so is not an isolated situation. As a homeowner, you can't help but lose a little faith in the contractor and be angry. As consumers, you can't help but lose a little faith in RIM.

BlackBerry owners, especially those that have waited oh so long, have a right to be upset. We've seen this scenario play out before. Whether they're willing to wait longer is entirely up to them.

[CrackBerry Kevin]

Keeping my head up and hoping for the best... but in the meantime I'm tired and going to go to bed!

Honestly, my brain is still racing around in all directions from the news tonight. I wrote that one editorial very quickly... I'm sure I'll have some more editorials on the homepage over the next few days. I'm sort of a mixed bag of emotions at the moment.

Bottom line, I still want BlackBerry 10 asap... and I want it to rock.

[palomartian]

The fail here is not the delay. The fail is by the time it's released, the hardware and OS will be old tech.

[katiepea]

The fail here is not the delay. The fail is by the time it's released, the hardware and OS will be old tech.

Next quarter they'll hold out for 5G chips and dual screen lcds, don't worry

[sinsin07]

The main point is, you have to expect things like that, there's no way you, or I, or Heins, or anyone else for that matter can exclusively say exactly when something as complex as a brand-new device will be released.

BS. Other companies have done it.
The playbook came out in 2011. That means they were working on QNX before that.

At least Heins had the balls, and the dignity, to come out and say "we're going to be later than we expected".

That's not balls. The former CEO's did the same thing. It's called a pattern.

[sportline]

hardware is not an issue here. software is. we have seen how playbook evolves from seaweed to a turtle in 14 months time..so to evolve to a chicken it will take at least as long (14 months). to evolve from a chicken to a primate..well..

imagine a playbook UI experience, translated to a mobile phone/4:3" screen. How do you think it will pan out? web-os like? meego like? battery life? no buttons?
it may look avantgarde without buttons but every successful blackberry device has a button (apart from playbook) which flops.

[Sonic300]

How do you plan wear your hair...ponytail?

Just joking, you are the "MAN"!

I invested in some stock and currently down, but I believe!!!

"He's not concerned with yesterday...He's knows constant change is here today"

RUSH "New World Man"

Just looking toward till BB10 does arrive, sometimes you just have to ride out the storm. It will be better once we are out.

Keeping my head up and hoping for the best... but in the meantime I'm tired and going to go to bed!

Honestly, my brain is still racing around in all directions from the news tonight. I wrote that one editorial very quickly... I'm sure I'll have some more editorials on the homepage over the next few days. I'm sort of a mixed bag of emotions at the moment.

Bottom line, I still want BlackBerry 10 asap... and I want it to rock.

[madman0141]

I think we can vent our anger and have a right to be mad. We are the who and the what that keep RIM and CrackBerry alive. We are disappointed and have been let down again. More than likely most people will still be here for BB10 but many will leave and should after being let down again.

I am sorry the OP doesn't feel like he is at home.

[qbnkelt]

Sorry OP, but there are many of us, long time BB users, who prefer the platform and who are damn tired of feeling like we're in a plane that's in a death spiral. And on top of that we have to deal with the.vultures watching the struggle. I've noticed one such vulture who has been.posting nonstop sin e the call, reminding us "I told you so! I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!"
I AM disappointed because as much as I love my BB, I do not believe they will pull out of this.
UNLIKE the vultures, there is sadness in my disappointment.

[katiepea]

Sorry OP, but there are many of us, long time BB users, who prefer the platform and who are damn tired of feeling like we're in a plane that's in a death spiral. And on top of that we have to deal with the.vultures watching the struggle. I've noticed one such vulture who has been.posting nonstop sin e the call, reminding us "I told you so! I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!"
I AM disappointed because as much as I love my BB, I do not believe they will pull out of this.
UNLIKE the vultures, there is sadness in my disappointment.

Perhaps this person felt like the quickest way to solve a problem is to truly acknowledge there is one and wanted rim to excel as much as you did.

[1magine]

OP - what a piece of cr-p post. I've said it a million times before and getting pretty sick of repeating myself. Choosing between 'on time' and 'right' is a FALSE CHOICE. In the real business world you must do both. RIM has not done either for far too long. RIM acquired QNX 26 months ago. They did because they knew JAVA was a dead end. Rather than work on putting it first on their handsets, they listen to their head of products (Thorsten) and pushed it onto their Tablet. And They still have had almost 2 years to develop it for their handsets.

If you believe anything RIM still says (by leak or otherwise), the hardware for these phones are in production. Well that means that the hardware they chose 6 months ago - which was top shelf, but not leading edge, is currently mid level, and will be at least a generation behind in 6-9 months when released. Blind optimism and false choices are what landed RIM at $7 a share and a 40% year over year loss in revenue.

Far too many of those individuals locked into a BES have given up and are holding on to ancient BBs until their companies adopt BYOD and every known statistic tells us that consumers with choice, when told keep to keep waiting or it won't be right, can simply step to the left or right and pick another platform. That's how it goes.

Any IT manager running a BES this morning, who is not finishing contigency plans for when the NOC is shuttered is committing professional malpractice.

[scorpiodsu]

So users that have hung in there with RIM, supported them in spite of the naysayers and their performance, passed up better devices to hold out for RIM cannot express their sheer disappointment? One of the silliest things a person can do is tell someone how they should feel and their appropriate reaction.

[DrBit2011]

$h1t.... i dont have words right now to describe how i feel... is a little disappointment, angry, sad, etc, etc... i still wait a couple months to my contract renew, but not sure if i can wait so long for BB10, when it comes, there will be iOS6 (develop in iOS7) Android 5.0, WP8. New hardware, new gen of modem chips, etc... But the current hardware of BB10 will be old... not a good thing... so again we will be "old" with our beloved Berries. Serioulsly, much of us are angry... a lot of us will not wait... but some of us need to wait... we will see what heppend next, in the meantime, vultures will still watching us.

[bk1022]

The rumour about RIM partnering with Microsoft over Windows Phone 8 might actually be true. It's possible that Thorsten is simply pushing the release back until he can ink a deal with MS, which would probably include a partial investment. A venture between the two companies unlocks huge potential for both.

Microsoft would elevate RIM back into respectable territory and RIM would then be able to give credence to WP8. Nokia would basically be done in this scenario -- it would have a two year lifespan maybe.

[shabbs]

The fail here is not the delay. The fail is by the time it's released, the hardware and OS will be old tech.

If this delay triggers a revisit/refresh of the hardware, then I would worry about even more delays. Ugh.

[jivegirl14]

hardware is not an issue here. software is. we have seen how playbook evolves from seaweed to a turtle in 14 months time..so to evolve to a chicken it will take at least as long (14 months). to evolve from a chicken to a primate..well..

imagine a playbook UI experience, translated to a mobile phone/4:3" screen. How do you think it will pan out? web-os like? meego like? battery life? no buttons?
it may look avantgarde without buttons but every successful blackberry device has a button (apart from playbook) which flops.

I don't even think it's that. I think that they haven't yet found a way for the new operating system to play nice with the service side (NOC). I think building the phones are the least of their worries (they are probably built in some form).If they won't work on their existing secure network that's a much bigger problem.

[johnenglish]

People here criticize iPhone users all the time as being iSheep for blindly loving their products. However, when devestating news like yesterday's earnings call comes out we're told to keep support RIM and don't worry about anything as it'll all work out?

[bk1022]

I don't even think it's that. I think that they haven't yet found a way for the new operating system to play nice with the service side (NOC). I think building the phones are the least of their worries (they are probably built in some form).If they won't work on their existing secure network that's a much bigger problem.

Load of c*ap.

Does QNX have a TCP stack? Does QNX operate realtime? Is QNX robust?

(Yes, Yes and Yes.)

This is what happens when you hire students as programmers.

[Invader3K]

Why should anyone really keep being optimistic about RIM? Yeah, yeah..."BB10". Well, remember how that was originally supposed to come out in the first half of this year? Everyone knew at the time that was extremely optimistic, since the BB7 devices had just come out in the fall. Then we were told by end of this year. OK, more realistic. Now it won't even be this year. Does anyone really think Q1 of '13 is going to happen at this point?

This company can't hold to deadlines, and can't even come out with new devices on an annual basis. Why should anyone really hold faith in them anymore? I still like my 9850, but it's going to be pretty long in the tooth by the time BB10 devices actually hit stores (if they ever do). I don't know if I'll be able to wait that long for RIM to get their act together.