[missing_K-W]

I have to congratulate you. In all that you said economist could only pick out 2 little things to tell you that you wrong about!

The only thing I think is they shouldn't be using words like morons if it was a professional setting.

I agree about the "morons" remark....I'm quick to forgive for the simple fact that we as humans have "Freudian slips"....Sometimes we say things that aren't as diplomatic as they could be....We learn and move on.

[kevinnugent]

Surely Martin was drunk. How else would you display such arrogance in an on the record interview with the press?

[wafguy]

Incorrect; you could argue that MS does this every time they offer a new iteration of Windows, and Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel without a lot of trouble. You have to remember that the case for RIM is actually stronger if others have done it before; if others haven't, the likelihood that RIM is going to successfully blaze the trail doesn't seem to high.

Are you comparing RIMs wholesale migration of all their apps and services from one painfully outdated platform (including both the OS and hardware) to another, completely independent, modern platform while simultaneously pushing the dying platform as far as they can so as to continue to grow their business and maintain profitability to Apple recompiling their modern OS to run on a new processor family or MS pushing out an update to Windows? I could swear thats what you're doing, but that would be a silly comparison to make.

Admittedly, you could have meant MS' migration off of DOS/Windows95 to Windows2000/XP/etc, which was a similar technical transition to what RIM is doing moving from BBOS to BB10, but even that was easier than RIMs transition, because MS had very little real competition at the time, plus they were protected by very slow PC upgrade cycles, and had other huge cash cows like Office to keep them afloat.

Anyway, RIM has mis-executed a lot over the past few years, and they might not pull off this whole BB10 thing and remain afloat, but lets at least credit them with trying something that, if it works, has the potential to move them to the forefront of the mobile space again. Rather than, say, is the equivalent of the leap from Win95 to Win98.

[DenverRalphy]

Are you comparing RIMs wholesale migration of all their apps and services from one painfully outdated platform (including both the OS and hardware) to another, completely independent, modern platform while simultaneously pushing the dying platform as far as they can so as to continue to grow their business and maintain profitability to Apple recompiling their modern OS to run on a new processor family or MS pushing out an update to Windows? I could swear thats what you're doing, but that would be a silly comparison to make.

Admittedly, you could have meant MS' migration off of DOS/Windows95 to Windows2000/XP/etc, which was a similar technical transition to what RIM is doing moving from BBOS to BB10, but even that was easier than RIMs transition, because MS had very little real competition at the time, plus they were protected by very slow PC upgrade cycles, and had other huge cash cows like Office to keep them afloat.

Anyway, RIM has mis-executed a lot over the past few years, and they might not pull off this whole BB10 thing and remain afloat, but lets at least credit them with trying something that, if it works, has the potential to move them to the forefront of the mobile space again. Rather than, say, is the equivalent of the leap from Win95 to Win98.

Actually, with Microsoft, the transition from MSDOS to Windows 3.x (not windows 95) was successful, even if very painful, and if it weren't for the backwards compatibility to still run MSDOS software from within 3.x, it would have been a worse nightmare. Consequently, 3.x to Win95 was just as painful, and would never have succeeded had there not been backwards compatibility from 3.x to 95. Microsoft has always had a plethora of problems, but if there's any one thing they did right, it was ensure there was backwards compatibility to previous iterations, even if at one point it only went back 1 OS generation. And unless I am sorely mistaken, to this day, you cans still run MSDOS applications under Win XP (past that I don't know since I have been a predominately linux user since the middle of the lifetime of XP).

[wafguy]

Actually, with Microsoft, the transition from MSDOS to Windows 3.x (not windows 95) was successful, even if very painful, and if it weren't for the backwards compatibility to still run MSDOS software from within 3.x, it would have been a worse nightmare. Consequently, 3.x to Win95 was just as painful, and would never have succeeded had there not been backwards compatibility from 3.x to 95. Microsoft has always had a plethora of problems, but if there's any one thing they did right, it was ensure there was backwards compatibility to previous iterations, even if at one point it only went back 1 OS generation. And unless I am sorely mistaken, to this day, you cans still run MSDOS applications under Win XP (past that I don't know since I have been a predominately linux user since the middle of the lifetime of XP).

Windows 3.x was a GUI layer that ran on top of DOS. 95/98/ME were more of the same, (Though the DOS heritage was pushed further into the background.) Not to say the MS didn't advance things a lot between DOS and WinME, but it was an evolution of the same codebase. (Similar going from BBOS 4.x to 7.0, its clearly advanced a lot, but also just an evolution of the same OS.)

The first version of modern Windows was NT 3.51, that was the completely new architecture and the basis for everything MS has released since (at least on the desktop/server side).

As for running DOS apps on XP, that says nothing about XP's heritage. I currently have the original Doom installed on my Linux box, and it runs flawlessly under DOSEMU.

[mjs416]

“So we’re supposed to hand it over to children, or morons from the outside who will destroy the company?” Martin told the Globe and Mail. “Or should we try to build our way to having succession? … I laugh at the vast majority of critics when they say ‘Oh, you should have made this CEO transition, like, four years ago.’ Yeah, right — like, to who?”

LOL! I love this friggin guy. Tell it like it is!

[tack]

In my experience, you should be concerned with hiring from the outside. It is darn hard to choose a CEO from the outside, and you risk getting a moron. Selection in secret is even more difficult.

He may have been blunt in his comments, but I think he was spot on in what he said.

[palmless]

In my experience, you should be concerned with hiring from the outside. It is darn hard to choose a CEO from the outside, and you risk getting a moron. Selection in secret is even more difficult.

He may have been blunt in his comments, but I think he was spot on in what he said.

Business people are paid to do difficult things. Boards hire outside and inside CEOs successfully, it's their job.

This mouthy "child" (his term) apparently chickened out on the CEO selection. The board dialog must have been "Tim Cook was a COO who setup the most successful supply chain ever, so let's get our co-COO, he botched our last five launches... he's ready" along with "JimMike will only leave if we get a thoroughly corrupted insider who won't change anything, how about Thor?".

[app_Developer]

An opinion piece this morning from Eric Jackson at the Street:

Roger Martin's silly defense of RIM

Those who don't like to read any criticism of RIM or RIM directors may want to skip this. He calls for Martin to step down as director.

[palmless]

An opinion piece this morning from Eric Jackson at the Street:

Roger Martin's silly defense of RIM

Those who don't like to read any criticism of RIM or RIM directors may want to skip this. He calls for Martin to step down as director.

That's actually VERY well-written. Hard to argue his point that the board is as out of control as JimMike were.

For a more succinct take:

Our Critics Are Idiots -- We Had No Choice But To Run The Company Into The Ground - Business Insider "So, basically, in the view of RIM's board, RIM's critics are fools who don't understand that there was absolutely no way to save the company."

Thors, ask for his resignation today and retain a shred of dignity. You can show a little class even when you can't show results.

[undone]

He called it the way he saw it and hind sight is 20/20. Unfortunately when defending a position that has become unfavorable you need to STFU, because no matter what you say or do everyone else knows better and your wrong. The inverse is true as well, when your the golden child you can tell people the sky is really green and they will say 'Really? How come I see it as blue?' not just call you a moron. (Had to put the moron in there somewhere)

[ALToronto]

Does anyone remember Sunbeam and what 'Chainsaw Al' did to them back in the 80's? Google it. He was hired from the outside. That's the sort of 'moron' Roger Martin is talking about.

An outsider can slash costs and jobs and instill paralyzing fear in the remaining employees. But he cannot bring passion for the company and the product. Mr. Heins is the best of both - groomed from within, but a recent enough hire to bring some fresh perspective. Mike and Jim couldn't have made a better choice.

[sportline]

RIM will survive even if it got only 1% of US market, no worries. market share is increasing elsewhere, subscribers increasing.
let the US market get busy with their expensive iphones and androids with minuscule battery life. The rest of the world is still too undeveloped so they still chose to use a physical keyboard while the mature markets are so sophisticated so they live on touchscreens and their debts and bailouts.

[sportline]

Does anyone remember Sunbeam and what 'Chainsaw Al' did to them back in the 80's? Google it. He was hired from the outside. That's the sort of 'moron' Roger Martin is talking about.

An outsider can slash costs and jobs and instill paralyzing fear in the remaining employees. But he cannot bring passion for the company and the product. Mr. Heins is the best of both - groomed from within, but a recent enough hire to bring some fresh perspective. Mike and Jim couldn't have made a better choice.

Yeah try Leo Apotheker or worse still, Joe Rubinstein, and see what sort of damage an outsider can do. We are still to see how Stephen Elop do with Nokia.
Or why don't anyone suggesting getting an outsider to run apple?

[palmless]

Why don't anyone suggesting getting an outsider to run apple?

Well, if I had to guess... this... (see pic)... that's probably why.

We're seeing the logical fallacy of false dilemma. "It had to be JimMike, or Thors, or Ronald McDonald. Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that they should have chosen Ronald McDonald?!?!?!?"

Obviously, that's a false dilemma. Listing failed CEOs as the only alternative is disingenuous.

I do see that point that just because every RIMM board decision over the past five years is now clearly incorrect, that doesn't prove that the decision to go with the pet insider was incorrect just because it looks that way so far.

[_StephenBB81]

I like Martins comments, it shows passion

and I am in agreement with him that bringing in an outsider probably wouldn't have been best for the company, would have been best for the stock holders, and before drastically extending my ignore list I've had fights about best for company, or best for stock holder arguments.


Had RIM put in a "hot shot CEO" chances of BB10 ever being realized are Slim to none, grooming an insider to take over who brings his own vision but that vision is inline with the RIM vision of BlackBerry's future.
a Hot shot CEO with no vested long term interest in RIM would have seen the sell off potential of components, the BlackBerry Brand would be dead, but RIM would be a profitable company selling service contracts, infrastructure software, and hardware patents.

Should they have been trying to identify a replacement sooner? maybe, should they have hired a CMO sooner? YES, the faults of the BOARD are not that they didn't replace Mike and Jim sooner, it was that they didn't address Mike and Jim's short comings in their rolls and have those filled sooner.

a Better CMO, giving more responsibilities and powers to VP's if it was apparent that Mike was causing delays with his excitement for new ideas, then the Board should have stepped in to talk about the roll of Mike and Product development, Leaders needed to have more of a backbone. the Company leader needed to be groomed to have a passion from within.

[_StephenBB81]

An opinion piece this morning from Eric Jackson at the Street:

Roger Martin's silly defense of RIM

Those who don't like to read any criticism of RIM or RIM directors may want to skip this. He calls for Martin to step down as director.

That was well written.

I very much appreciated his stance, would have been a good interview between him and Martin.


and usually I think the Street is a crappy bit of writing and poorly researched junk.

[NJPhilliesPhan]

RIM being located in Canada is hurting them horribly. Most Canadians will buy RIMs products whether they are good or bad, some of the comments by Canadian posters on this thread further prove this, this is giving RIM a false sense of success. But in strong markets like the US where the best product wins they are struggling and the director thinks "marketing" is the issue.

[ALToronto]

RIM being located in Canada is hurting them horribly. Most Canadians will buy RIMs products whether they are good or bad, some of the comments by Canadian posters on this thread further prove this, this is giving RIM a false sense of success. But in strong markets like the US where the best product wins they are struggling and the director thinks "marketing" is the issue.

Best PRODUCT wins? Get real. The best-HYPED product wins, and that's the real genius of Apple.

[Eumaeus]

I like Martins comments, it shows passion.

Passion is not itself a good thing, if it is not aimed in the right direction.

As Yeats said of the end of the world...

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

Not that Martin is "the worst", but a passionate defense of the status quo might not be exactly what RIM needs.

That said, this Directory's statements, and those of the new CEO, are probably walking (a little clumsily) a line between continuity and reform... things clearly have to change, but no one wants to destroy morale and foul their own nest by going too much into detail on why they need to change. Actions will speak loudest.

[Rickroller]

Best PRODUCT wins? Get real. The best-HYPED product wins, and that's the real genius of Apple.

Well..obviously "best" is a subjective term. But in terms of consumers voting with their wallets..it's fairly obvious who they feel are putting out the "best" phones right now..hyped or not.

EDIT: And if it's only a matter of generating hype..then i'm guessing these new Bold commercials will do the trick? I mean..who isn't impressed that some DJ's can tweet from their phone..or a restaurateur can snap pics of vegetables and send them wirelessly to his chefs! In 2012 nontheless!! All's I need now is a hover board like McFly..and i'll be set.

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