[snohman]

For Blackberry? Its indeed their best phone.

Compared to others? Not so much.

1) low-res 480x360 display
2) 624mhz processor
3) Camera is subpar compared to other smartphones (and yes, I've tried it)
4) Webkit Browser - altho much improved still doesn't deliver the experience others can, and really there's not much room for argument here

Its just behind, if it came out last year who knows. Its just not fast enough and thats because Blackberry, ironically, isn't either. The pluses are of course the new OS6 but that is about it. Its got its longer life battery going for it, but thats of course due to its dumbed down internals.

EDIT: it appears you are actually trolling on blackberry for blackberry. I have given nothing but actual facts and data points. You on the other hand are blindly going through. WHy dont you tell me why you THINK the torch is so technologically advanced versus the latest Android phones and the iPhone4?

[snohman]

And while we are at it, why don't we include some additional text that highlights my exact concerns from the article you posted.

"The biggest concern is that they are just churning phones in their existing base," said Colin Gillis from BGC Partners.

That fear will be exacerbated if RIM misses on net subscriber additions, a metric that is unique to the BlackBerry maker. RIM has said it will not report net subscriber additions -- the net change in customers using its network servers -- or average selling price after Thursday's results.

Net additions was the sole laggard last quarter, when RIM made bold forecasts for the quarter to November 27."

[Dodger52]

1. Low res? It has a Pixel per inch rate of 188 you computerscreen has a PPI of 125 (Average) how many times have you been complaining about pixels on you PC?

2. The 624mhz processor is Cortex A8 compliant processor,uses Armv7 instruction set and uses out of order execution (something other processors don't do except for the cortex A9). It is FAST, and built on 45nm which is the same as for instance snapdragon processors.
Source:
http://extranet.marvell.com/technolo...cpu_history.js

3. The Camera sub-par you do not now what you're talking about the Camera in the Torch is a BIG improvement and you can take really good pictures with it and i no, i own one you don't

4. the web-kit browser is the best out there, my torch scores 208 points in the html5 test while the Iphone only does 185 on the same test.

Get your facts right! fool!

[JRSCCivic98]

Another thing for you guys to remember is that a lot more companies (due to cost cutting and the economy) will start offloading the idea of providing smartphones for employees to the employees themselves. Some companies have already started to do this and the employees are generally not picking Blackberry due to lacking features. This inturn causes those companies to evaluate their mobile email infrastructure and doing away with the expensive BES platform in return for an already included ActiveSync provisioning platform. Sure, they lose a bit of control over the device (which is debatable depending on needs and who you talk to) but they save A TON of money.

Anyway, this won't happen with all companies, but the BES market RIM had with small to medium businesses is going bye bye quick. BESX was also not enough of an incentive to keep them either because the employees didn't like being tied down to the BB platform due to features it lacks. So, their employees picking iPhone or Android drove them to question the money they were spending on the BB platform. Over time, they realized that they can keep the corporate network just as secure even if using other mobile platforms and they concentrated the money they saved from RIM to improve other network security needs to make these other platforms safe for the company.

[i7guy]

And while we are at it, why don't we include some additional text that highlights my exact concerns from the article you posted.

"The biggest concern is that they are just churning phones in their existing base," said Colin Gillis from BGC Partners.

That fear will be exacerbated if RIM misses on net subscriber additions, a metric that is unique to the BlackBerry maker. RIM has said it will not report net subscriber additions -- the net change in customers using its network servers -- or average selling price after Thursday's results.

Net additions was the sole laggard last quarter, when RIM made bold forecasts for the quarter to November 27."

Most of this "information" is worth what was paid to obtain it. Nothing.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[JRSCCivic98]

1. Low res? It has a Pixel per inch rate of 188 you computerscreen has a PPI of 125 (Average) how many times have you been complaining about pixels on you PC?

2. The 624mhz processor is Cortex A8 compliant processor,uses Armv7 instruction set and uses out of order execution (something other processors don't do except for the cortex A9). It is FAST, and built on 45nm which is the same as for instance snapdragon processors.
Source:
http://extranet.marvell.com/technolo...cpu_history.js

3. The Camera sub-par you do not now what you're talking about the Camera in the Torch is a BIG improvement and you can take really good pictures with it and i no, i own one you don't

4. the web-kit browser is the best out there, my torch scores 208 points in the html5 test while the Iphone only does 185 on the same test.

Get your facts right! fool!

And because of their base platform, they cannot use the entire processing power of the hardware they're putting in the devices.

Also, web test scores don't mean crap when the overall experience still blows. If it takes a long time to render the page and you have a hard time manipulating the navigation, it doesn't matter if the browser scores a 100 on the Acid3 test. Just for comparison, IE doens't have a 100 test score either but it renders everything on the web just fine and without issues. RIM's too concerned with measuring everything but the most important of the factors... USER EXPERIENCE.

[alby4ever]

1. Low res? It has a Pixel per inch rate of 188 you computerscreen has a PPI of 125 (Average) how many times have you been complaining about pixels on you PC?

2. The 624mhz processor is Cortex A8 compliant processor,uses Armv7 instruction set and uses out of order execution (something other processors don't do except for the cortex A9). It is FAST, and built on 45nm which is the same as for instance snapdragon processors.
Source:
http://extranet.marvell.com/technolo...cpu_history.js

3. The Camera sub-par you do not now what you're talking about the Camera in the Torch is a BIG improvement and you can take really good pictures with it and i no, i own one you don't

4. the web-kit browser is the best out there, my torch scores 208 points in the html5 test while the Iphone only does 185 on the same test.

Get your facts right! fool!

Congrats. You're the only person on the planet that considers the Torch a "high-end" phone. Same specs and CPU as two years before! Yay! Half the resolution of an iPhone 4 and high-end Android phone! Yay! That's so "high-end" for RIM!

And for a browser that scores well on tests, it sure does pretty poorly in the real world. Yes, I've used it.

[Dodger52]

Another thing for you guys to remember is that a lot more companies (due to cost cutting and the economy) will start offloading the idea of providing smartphones for employees to the employees themselves. Some companies have already started to do this and the employees are generally not picking Blackberry due to lacking features. This inturn causes those companies to evaluate their mobile email infrastructure and doing away with the expensive BES platform in return for an already included ActiveSync provisioning platform. Sure, they lose a bit of control over the device (which is debatable depending on needs and who you talk to) but they save A TON of money.

Anyway, this won't happen with all companies, but the BES market RIM had with small to medium businesses is going bye bye quick. BESX was also not enough of an incentive to keep them either because the employees didn't like being tied down to the BB platform due to features it lacks. So, their employees picking iPhone or Android drove them to question the money they were spending on the BB platform. Over time, they realized that they can keep the corporate network just as secure even if using other mobile platforms and they concentrated the money they saved from RIM to improve other network security needs to make these other platforms safe for the company.

And what if i may ask is you source?
It was my understanding that a company could run more efficient, it they used the blackberry solution, don't get me wrong you might be right, but so much is being said without people actually knowing what they are talking about.

Take for instance snohman, who just made al kinds of false claims.

[Dodger52]

Congrats. You're the only person on the planet that considers the Torch a "high-end" phone. Same specs and CPU as two years before! Yay! Half the resolution of an iPhone 4 and high-end Android phone! Yay! That's so "high-end" for RIM!

And for a browser that scores well on tests, it sure does pretty poorly in the real world. Yes, I've used it.

Congrats! second time you've proved you don't know what you're talking about, The bold 9000 (two years ago), used the PXA930 which was built using the 65nm building process the PXA940 is being used in the torch uses the 45nm technology.

And why do you say the browsers does poorly, tell me, don't just make claims, back them up (second time i'm telling you this.)

Oh and The HTC Evo 4G is a high end device and has 217PPI

[alby4ever]

Congrats! second time you don't know what you're talking about, The bold 9000 (two years ago), used the PXA930 which was built using the 65nm building process the PXA940 is being used in the torch uses the 45nm technology.

And why do you say the browsers does poorly, tell me, don't just make claims, back them up (second time i'm telling you this.)

Here's a fact that's backed up by the entire tech industry:

The Torch is not a high-end phone. Period.

You can mention all the PXblah's you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a poor alternative to the actual high-end phones in the market today. I have a high-end Android phone and I've used the Torch. The Torch blows.

[Dodger52]

And because of their base platform, they cannot use the entire processing power of the hardware they're putting in the devices.

Also, web test scores don't mean crap when the overall experience still blows. If it takes a long time to render the page and you have a hard time manipulating the navigation, it doesn't matter if the browser scores a 100 on the Acid3 test. Just for comparison, IE doens't have a 100 test score either but it renders everything on the web just fine and without issues. RIM's too concerned with measuring everything but the most important of the factors... USER EXPERIENCE.

They canot use the entire processing power? because of the base platform?
Please explain?

And in real world the torch browser does really good and the HTML5 test, is designed to test rendering!

[Dodger52]

Here's a fact that's backed up by the entire tech industry:

The Torch is not a high-end phone. Period.

You can mention all the PXblah's you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a poor alternative to the actual high-end phones in the market today. I have a high-end Android phone and I've used the Torch. The Torch blows.

Yeah and you need to grow up and stop thinking that "the torch blows" is an argument.

[sleepngbear]

Less filling!
Tastes great!
Less filling!!
Tastes great!!
Less filling!!!
Tastes great!!!
Less filling!!!!
Tastes great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[snohman]

Most of this "information" is worth what was paid to obtain it. Nothing.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Right, the fact that RIM does not want to publicly release its net subscriber additions or its average price per phone is worthless info. Yep, solid point.

[snohman]

And what if i may ask is you source?
It was my understanding that a company could run more efficient, it they used the blackberry solution, don't get me wrong you might be right, but so much is being said without people actually knowing what they are talking about.

Take for instance snohman, who just made al kinds of false claims.

Too funny, false claims? My specs of what is included on the Torch were false claims, or quoting an article you originally created an entire thread over? Or how about the fact that the majority of smartphones sold on Verizon went from 93% Blackberry in October 2009 to only 20% in November 2010?

Anything else?

[syb0rg]

And why is'tn blackberry advanced? can someone tell me?

Where do i start ?

Ad-Hoc Tethering?
SU access?
Overclocking?
ability to create custom ROMs?
the ability to applications on the removable storage?
the ability to take one piece off of one OS and install it to another, easily?
Processors that are on par with Nintendo DS's?
GPU's that are sub Sega's GameGear?


should i continue?

[Dodger52]

Too funny, false claims? My specs of what is included on the Torch were false claims, or quoting an article you originally created an entire thread over? Or how about the fact that the majority of smartphones sold on Verizon went from 93% Blackberry in October 2009 to only 20% in November 2010?

Anything else?

Well yes:
You're claim it was running a two year old processor was false, the claim it was low resolution: false.

The fact that you claim that the device "only has a 624mhz CPU makes it a non-advanced phone is false.

ANYTHING ELSE?

[Witmen]

I think it's ironic that whenever a topic is made that is even remotely positive for RIM you know it will be filled with people fighting. I thought CrackBerry was site for CrackBerry users and abusers, Anymore it just seems like a site for BlackBerry haters.

Isn't this suppose to be like a fan site? When you see the topic "RIM again beats sales record" Shouldn't you expect happy people? If a topic at Android central is posted that said "Android again beats sales record" you wouldn't see nothing but people fighting.

Crackberry is quickly becoming the worst site there is for BlackBerry users. Kinda messed up.

[snohman]

Those are opinions, you cannot claim my opinions are false like I will not refute that yours are immediately wrong. I can disagree which is what I am doing, and unfortunately you cannot seem to come to grips with that.

Now, comparing the resolution of the Torch to a monitor? Thats stupid. Compare it to the latest android or iPhone. Is it behind or not? If you can't answer that then you really are just clueless.

The processor is optimized for Blackberry, but its the same speed as it was from 2-years ago, a point which I did not even make yet you assumed I did. Another reason I can't take you all that much seriously now. Even in Crackberry's own review of the Torch, it said it would have enjoyed a faster processor so I really can't understand your argument there.

The camera may be OK, what I actually meant was the video recording. And that is completely subpar compared to other phones in the market. And you really cannot refute that either because there are many comparison tests done on the video that show it clearly.

[syb0rg]

Get your facts right! fool!

Drop the insults are no one will take you seriously.....

[snohman]

I think it's ironic that whenever a topic is made that is even remotely positive for RIM you know it will be filled with people fighting. I thought CrackBerry was site for CrackBerry users and abusers, Anymore it just seems like a site for BlackBerry haters.

Isn't this suppose to be like a fan site? When you see the topic "RIM again beats sales record" Shouldn't you expect happy people? If a topic at Android central is posted that said "Android again beats sales record" you wouldn't see nothing but people fighting.

Crackberry is quickly becoming the largest Android fan site their is. Lol Kinda messed up.

You think I am bashing RIM, but no one would like to see them succeed more than me. I have bought their phones personally for the last 3 years, and also have a BES phone with RIM for work. Yet, my next personal phone will not be a Blackberry because they have failed to innovate and stay abreast the consumer smartphone market. Their messaging, push email, keyboard, etc are still absolutely above and beyond. But I just require more because the market has pushed that envelope, and RIM has refused to go along until too late.

[Dodger52]

Those are opinions, you cannot claim my opinions are false like I will not refute that yours are immediately wrong. I can disagree which is what I am doing, and unfortunately you cannot seem to come to grips with that.

Now, comparing the resolution of the Torch to a monitor? Thats stupid. Compare it to the latest android or iPhone. Is it behind or not? If you can't answer that then you really are just clueless.

The processor is optimized for Blackberry, but its the same speed as it was from 2-years ago, a point which I did not even make yet you assumed I did. Another reason I can't take you all that much seriously now. Even in Crackberry's own review of the Torch, it said it would have enjoyed a faster processor so I really can't understand your argument there.

The camera may be OK, what I actually meant was the video recording. And that is completely subpar compared to other phones in the market. And you really cannot refute that either because there are many comparison tests done on the video that show it clearly.

You should really become a politician changing facts and whatnot

Yes and Crackberry Kevin, was wrong at the time of his review nobody new what CPU was used they all assumed it was the same old PXA930, then UBMtechinsight analysed the hardware and found out that a new processor was used.

You've said the blackberry uses 2 year old hardware and the CPU is part of the hardware. So you did say that and i didn't assume anything,

And again the HTC Evo 4G, wich is pretty advanced has a PPI of 215 so the torch isn't as far behind as the advanced smartphones. I've never heard anyone saying the Evo 4G isn't high end.

And don't present your opinion as being fact which you did, and don't change you opinion and things you've said because you can't win the discussion.

Well that's it for tonight folks i'm going to bed
(It's 22:15 in the Netherlands right now)

have a nice day Snohman, everyone's entitled to there opinion, just make sure you keep facts and opinion's seperated.

[i7guy]

Where do i start ?

Ad-Hoc Tethering?
SU access?
Overclocking?
ability to create custom ROMs?
the ability to applications on the removable storage?
the ability to take one piece off of one OS and install it to another, easily?
Processors that are on par with Nintendo DS's?
GPU's that are sub Sega's GameGear?


should i continue?

And all of this helps you to make a buck how?

I use my phone to make money. If I did what was listed above I would be using my phone for R and D and not making money.

Its more important to make a buck than to proclaim: WOW I GOT SU access.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Witmen]

You think I am bashing RIM, but no one would like to see them succeed more than me. I have bought their phones personally for the last 3 years, and also have a BES phone with RIM for work. Yet, my next personal phone will not be a Blackberry because they have failed to innovate and stay abreast the consumer smartphone market. Their messaging, push email, keyboard, etc are still absolutely above and beyond. But I just require more because the market has pushed that envelope, and RIM has refused to go along until too late.

I actually wasn't targeting you or anyone else. I just find it funny that when I seen this topic get posted with the title "RIM again beats on (I'm guessing should be own) sales record on par with Apple" I knew it would be filled with people fighting.

Because on CrackBerry a site that is suppose to be dedicated to BlackBerry users and abusers, NOTHING positive can ever be said about BlackBerry without it turning into a fight. Stuff like that don't happen on any other forum I frequent. It's insane and it always happens. I mean RIM beat it's own sales record. That of course is secret code for everyone come hear and comment on how badly RIM sucks. Just think of how people new to BlackBerry and new to CrackBerry must view that.

[syb0rg]

I think it's ironic that whenever a topic is made that is even remotely positive for RIM you know it will be filled with people fighting. I thought CrackBerry was site for CrackBerry users and abusers, Anymore it just seems like a site for BlackBerry haters.

Isn't this suppose to be like a fan site? When you see the topic "RIM again beats sales record" Shouldn't you expect happy people? If a topic at Android central is posted that said "Android again beats sales record" you wouldn't see nothing but people fighting.

Crackberry is quickly becoming the worst site there is for BlackBerry users. Kinda messed up.

There are a large number of us that owned Blackberries at one point in time. That is why we joined this site to begin with. And came to be friends with alot of the people on this forum. That is why we hand around.

Personally i've numerous Blackberries, a few WinMo phones, and a few Androids, along with one Apple iPod. I try to give the fairest view point out there. But when someone comes around swinging their junk around it's a little aggravating. In fact if you look most of my post are in the Android section, and the 9700 section (being that was the last RIM product i owned). But i lurk in the News and General to see what is going on.