12-16-10 01:28 AM
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  1. Dodger52's Avatar
    Research in Motion sold 14.1 million Smartphones last Quarter according to 23 analyst forecasts Compiled by reuters, this figure beats their last salesrecord standing at 12 million

    Apple sold 14.1 million last quarter according to reuters.

    Source:
    BlackBerry Torch seen aiding RIM's results | Reuters
    12-14-10 11:38 AM
  2. WillieLee's Avatar
    That's an estimate, they don't release earnings until Thursday after the close.
    12-14-10 11:40 AM
  3. Dodger52's Avatar
    If 23 analysts say so it can't be far off can it?
    12-14-10 11:43 AM
  4. WillieLee's Avatar
    If 23 analysts say so it can't be far off can it?
    Yes, it can very easily be off. Analysts miss all the time, even consensus estimates. Especially this quarter, if you go back to last quarter the consensus estimate for EPS was $1.36-1.40 for this quarter. RIM guided higher($1.61-$1.70) so they then all followed suit and now act as if they weren't out a hundred million in profit. If they were accurate why were they 20 cents low? The share buyback only accounts for a few cents of that figure.

    Their forecasts for this quarter were not even close to RIM's guidance but since the time from the last earnings report to now they have all hiked their estimates(quietly of course) and if RIM misses they will claim that RIM didn't perform. Even though RIM's figures were much higher than what they had originally projected for the quarter.
    12-14-10 11:50 AM
  5. dutchtender's Avatar
    it's also "history". it's what they did the last three months. next three months? who knows...
    12-14-10 11:51 AM
  6. Dodger52's Avatar
    So you are now comparing estimated sales figures with the profit shareholders get?

    That isn't a good comparison is it?
    12-14-10 11:53 AM
  7. dutchtender's Avatar
    no what I am telling you is the report that comes out thursday only reflects on what happened in the three month period ending in November 2010. It does not look forward. If you want to know how rimm is doing you really want to look at how it is doing today forward no? the past is past....
    12-14-10 11:59 AM
  8. WillieLee's Avatar
    So you are now comparing estimated sales figures with the profit shareholders get?

    That isn't a good comparison is it?
    ? They are tied together. The more devices you sell, the more earnings you get as long as the company maintains margins. And analysts also don't like to guide device sales far out. They will, however, project figures such as EPS for the fiscal year.
    12-14-10 12:00 PM
  9. Dodger52's Avatar
    That is not true willielee if they highten the price of a device and for instance do not include a leather pouch with that product, the earnings wil go up, regadless of the fact that they sell more or less devices.

    How many smart-phones did analyst forecast RIM would sell in the quarter before this one?
    12-14-10 12:14 PM
  10. WillieLee's Avatar
    That is not true willielee if they highten the price of a device and for instance do not include a leather pouch with that product, the earnings wil go up, regadless of the fact that they sell more or less devices.
    Uh, not really. They have increasing revenue, not static revenue generating higher profit through margin increases. A leather pouch isn't going to add much to the bottom line of the products.

    How many smart-phones did analyst forecast RIM would sell in the quarter before this one?
    I believe consensus was 11.8 and RIM shipped 12.1.
    12-14-10 12:27 PM
  11. Dodger52's Avatar
    So judging by last quarter's forecast they won't be off that much and i'm not talking profit here just sales, Apple is king of creating profit, judging by the criminally high prices they charge.
    12-14-10 12:32 PM
  12. johncihak's Avatar
    Even if they have Apple's sales figures, RIM has to resort to BOGO free and very low prices to move their phones. They are more comparable to today's cheap feature phones than premium smart phones like the iPhone.
    12-14-10 12:44 PM
  13. snohman's Avatar
    What is more startling is the Verizon smartphones sales trend posted on BGR. Whereas Blackberry used to account for 93% of smartphone sales in October 2009 for Verizon, they only account for 20% in November 2010. While this may be due to the hardcore pushing of Android Verizon has done in the past year, it is startling to see just how many people do want something more advanced and a different form factor than what Blackberry has been giving in the past two years - which in all honesty hasn't been much.

    EDIT: And you can't use the iPhone excuse since Verizon still doesn't carry it.
    12-14-10 12:49 PM
  14. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Even if they have Apple's sales figures, RIM has to resort to BOGO free and very low prices to move their phones. They are more comparable to today's cheap feature phones than premium smart phones like the iPhone.
    Exactly... and don't forget to add in the fact that BB is on EVERY SINGLE CARRIER, whereas Apple is on one. Global sales don't mean much either as the iPhone still has limited exclusive deals with select carriers, whereas again, BB is on every little mom and pop carrier known to man. lol
    reeneebob likes this.
    12-14-10 12:52 PM
  15. Witmen's Avatar
    Even if they have Apple's sales figures, RIM has to resort to BOGO free and very low prices to move their phones. They are more comparable to today's cheap feature phones than premium smart phones like the iPhone.
    Ok, I've seen countless Android devices with the BOGO free offer. Or what about the BlackBerry killing Droid Pro that got a $130 price cut after being out for less than a month? For the record the Droid Pro is $50 while the BlackBerry Bold is still $99. So who is resorting to very low prices to move phones?

    I don't understand why people think BB is the only company that does promotions. When I bought my S2 way back when it was BOGO free and right next to it was the also BOGO free Motorola Droid.

    You are right Apple don't have to do those kind of promotions, But BlackBerry definitely isn't the only company that does.
    Last edited by Witmen; 12-14-10 at 12:56 PM.
    12-14-10 12:52 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    VZW just isn't selling enough smartphones, even with the BOGO offers.

    Verizon Strikes Out in Smartphones [Updated] | asymco
    howarmat and Entertainment72 like this.
    12-14-10 12:56 PM
  17. Dodger52's Avatar
    And why is'tn blackberry advanced? can someone tell me?
    12-14-10 12:59 PM
  18. hootyhoo's Avatar
    Keep in mind that RIM, according to Mike, is hanging their hat on countries like India. While that may help profits right now, surely that is not sustainable as those consumers will also expect more from their smart phone eventually, just as we have. Just because their numbers are still in line with their past performance, does not mean that they are churning out the latest and greatest phones. I'm sure though that Mike and Jim can use these numbers to tell themselves that "see, our phones can't be that far behind, we're selling millions of them". Meanwhile, android marches on.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-14-10 01:25 PM
  19. Dodger52's Avatar
    What they are saying that they're not braindead at RIM they're getting phones into less developed country's increasing revenue, in meanwhile they've got plenty money and time to built even more advanced smartphones than the ones they're building right now
    Last edited by Dodger52; 12-14-10 at 01:43 PM.
    12-14-10 01:40 PM
  20. snohman's Avatar
    That might be the case, and their enterprise system is really their main source of revenue I would imagine. But in the personal smartphone market, they are just far behind. I really don't know many people who are excited about any new Blackberry smartphone that might be coming out soon or is already in the market.

    Blackberry did not innovate their form feature enough to capture the consumer smartphone market, and failed in thinking that trying to tweak their business-style smartphones into this market would succeed.
    12-14-10 01:44 PM
  21. Dodger52's Avatar
    They didn't tweak their business smartphones to capture the consumer market, consumers bought blackberry, and RIM was like okay this we like, lets get more consumers on-board make it more intuitive, etc....

    And although not very fast they are doing a great job delivering smart and fast phones.
    12-14-10 01:48 PM
  22. snohman's Avatar
    Obviously they aren't if they have suffered a large decrease in the overall market. Here is where they are not innovating. Android in the market for a little over a year and clearly capturing whatever business that iPhone has left behind, has left RIM with a small percentage of the consumer market now. If you can't see that you really are in denial. They may be doing fine in the business sector but all signs are indicating the personal smartphone is suffering.

    And if you really think the Torch was technologically advanced compared to what was already out from Android and the iPhone 4, then we shouldn't even be debating.
    12-14-10 01:57 PM
  23. Dodger52's Avatar
    Obviously they aren't if they have suffered a large decrease in the overall market. Here is where they are not innovating. Android in the market for a little over a year and clearly capturing whatever business that iPhone has left behind, has left RIM with a small percentage of the consumer market now. If you can't see that you really are in denial. They may be doing fine in the business sector but all signs are indicating the personal smartphone is suffering.

    And if you really think the Torch was technologically advanced compared to what was already out from Android and the iPhone 4, then we shouldn't even be debating.
    You really don't know what you're talking about do you, tell me why is'nt the torch advanced?
    12-14-10 01:59 PM
  24. GriM.Tech's Avatar
    You have to factor in too that RIM has so many devices out on the market right now compared to Apple. Apple really only has one platform of smartphone right now and presently they aren't offering any alternitive to the iPhone. Off the top of your head you can probably name at least 10 different Blackberry devices. Try doing the same for Apple...
    12-14-10 02:03 PM
  25. Dodger52's Avatar
    Ehm Iphone 3g Iphone 3GS Iphone 4 :P

    In all seriousness i would like to hear why snohman thinks the Torch isn't advanced he has a big mouth but nothing to back his claims
    12-14-10 02:05 PM
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