1. raybb's Avatar
    Hey folks,

    So with all these refresh devices coming out (rumored) what do you guys think? Why is Rim doing refresh devices and not concentrate on new and improved devices?
    Last edited by RayBB; 09-23-10 at 07:55 AM.
    09-23-10 07:52 AM
  2. devGOD's Avatar
    RIM has nothing new to offer so they refresh a device to keep BB loyalists under contract long enough for them to make something new. seriously there is not real reason for a billion dollar company that is #1 (only because they've been around longer) to be refreshing founds across the board instead of making brand new model. Torch just came out now RIM is pushing refresh models how easy they've forgotten about the Torch. Rumored Storm 3, and they're refreshing the Storm2? wtf, so the people that would buy a Storm 3 you're pushing a refresh model in which they'll be locked into a 2yr contract so when the Storm3 comes out they won't be able to purchase it... oh wait RIM will refresh the Storm 3 in 2012 so its okay.
    09-23-10 08:01 AM
  3. Raistlin1's Avatar
    I think RIM was so confident in their phones that they thought they could do this.
    09-23-10 09:06 AM
  4. Reed McLay's Avatar
    Research in Motion has over 13,000 employees. The majority of them are technical positions. There are plenty of resources to maintain existing models and to work of the latest and greatest new stuff we will see in the following years.

    09-23-10 09:22 AM
  5. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    The RIM mentality of small refreshes is why I'm now an Android user. The Bold was just a minor Tour refresh, and I didn't want that, I wanted a jump forward.

    RIM has got to be the only (or one of a very select few) modern company(ies) out there to remain successful despite making products they want vs what the market demands.

    I mean they are so averse to innovation, the 8530 Curve they rolled out last year was still EVDO rev 0. The rev A standard was out soon enough that the 8330 should have been using it. They finally have a rev A curve out this year?!

    I loved some of the features and still do, but that just wasn't enough to make up for being disgusted with the hardware and "refreshes" using essentially the exact same hardware. Tour and Bold for example. What, probably 95% of the Bold is recycled from the Tour. How do they think that will make Tour users feel to have the only "upgrade" available to be essentially the same device they paid for a year or two ago?
    09-23-10 09:49 AM
  6. jebulls's Avatar
    ^^^^Lets hope the storm 3 will be a new start for RIM.... I really like my bold but would be very disappointed in a year or year and a half there is just another refresh. Time will tell!
    09-23-10 09:56 AM
  7. devGOD's Avatar
    Research in Motion has over 13,000 employees. The majority of them are technical positions. There are plenty of resources to maintain existing models and to work of the latest and greatest new stuff we will see in the following years.

    its about RIM's staff or money its the fact that they're screwing themselves by Refreshing the same stuff. The new and diehard BB users lock into a 2yrs contract for a storm2 two years later nothing new other than the same storm2 refresh all the complaints and problems still present RIM more than likely will lose those users as they go else where. With a storm 2 refresh that just says a storm 3 won't be coming anytime soon. because why would you risk having users lock into another 2yr contract if you're planning on releasing something better.

    In my opinion RIM does not understand the consumer market at all. They're like the IBM of the phone world. bunch of suits trying to tell consumers what they want and need. Its not working with these refresh, there is no demand for refresh phones.
    09-23-10 10:24 AM
  8. Reed McLay's Avatar
    The fact is, the customers are the carriers. It is up to them to determine what they want in the next generation of BlackBerry. If they want it, Research in Motion will build it.

    The marketplace includes the whole World, not just the Americas.

    The next generation of BlackBerry is in the works, a whole new OS based on "The Crusher" code.

    http://forums.crackberry.com/f40/com...os-qnx-532100/

    09-23-10 10:29 AM
  9. raybb's Avatar
    The fact is, the customers are the carriers. It is up to them to determine what they want in the next generation of BlackBerry. If they want it, Research in Motion will build it.

    The marketplace includes the whole World, not just the Americas.

    The next generation of BlackBerry is in the works, a whole new OS based on "The Crusher" code.

    http://forums.crackberry.com/f40/com...os-qnx-532100/

    If that is true, then RIM is not really paying attention to the customers at all. I really doubt that as a customer, we want a "refresh device".........do you? We would want a newer device to not only suit our needs, but maintain a corporate, professional device. Which they are doing now, but not the new device part.
    Last edited by RayBB; 09-23-10 at 11:57 AM.
    09-23-10 11:21 AM
  10. The_Engine's Avatar
    The fact is, the customers are the carriers. It is up to them to determine what they want in the next generation of BlackBerry. If they want it, Research in Motion will build it.

    The marketplace includes the whole World, not just the Americas.

    The next generation of BlackBerry is in the works, a whole new OS based on "The Crusher" code.

    http://forums.crackberry.com/f40/com...os-qnx-532100/

    That is what is wrong with RIM, right there. Do you think AT&T spec'd out the iPhone for Apple? Did VZW tell Motorola to go to android and build the droids? Does any carrier tell Google what direction to go with Android?

    This is old thinking.

    RIM needs to take their product to the next level. Carriers will support that and get in line. If RIM waits for someone to tell them what to do, then they will die out.

    I have a close relative who recently spent some time with the head of Product for WP7. He told me that what MS has planned for that platform is nothing short of insane. Yes they are initially going to consumer route with XBox tie ins, but the Enterprise is right behind. We all say BB owns enterprise, but the Reality is that MS always has and will for some time. They just never went after the mobile enterprise. They will. So by 2011 WP7 will fully integrate with Exchange, Office, SharePoint and Communicator. And when I say Fully, I mean like you are at your PC. If they do it right, which all indications are that they are, then IT will start wondering why they need BES and have to integrate it, when they be more fully immersed with WP7.

    So RIM needs to deliver a new generation BB going into 2011, and it needs to be good. Unless all they want to be is the low end messaging device. If you are looking for a solid Messaging device that texts, emails, and hits twitter or Facebook, it's hard to beat a free curve.
    09-23-10 11:38 AM
  11. The_Engine's Avatar
    is that RIM needed to get all the pieces in place for a revolution. So they acquired Torch and then QNX, plus some of the other things. But all that takes time. AT&T wanted to get the torch out. OS 5 was a mess. So short term they could bake in Web Kit to OS5 and that should buy them time to get the QNX platform running.

    But of course, they ran into an issue with BB6 on the 256 devices. They need to get BB6 out there, but have no in market to support it. What do you do? You take your existing inventory and upgrade the memory and re release it. Where possible you add some bonus stuff like a 5 mp camera or Wireless N support, or WiFi hot spot.

    BB6 and these refreshes are a stop gap. RIM is buying time so that all the pieces they have bringing together can be mature and release with some wow factor.

    If RIM uses the time they are buying wisely then the QNX platform launches with Solid App support, and a few devices (at least a Storm and a Bold, and maybe a Torch) across a few carriers.

    I really hope they also clean up the way they deliver software releases and go to big Yearly/Bi Annual/Quarterly releases.
    09-23-10 11:44 AM
  12. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    Sorry, grabbed the wrong quote... This reply used to the iidea that the carriers dictate RIM's specifications, and also the notion that if RIM made a super device that the carriers would not pick it up.

    Really?! Whatever happened to the idea of if you build it they will come? How do you think the carriers work with other manufacturers? Do you think the carriers request that the other manufacturers make a product to a given price point, or do you think they work with the manufacturers the way you claim they work with RIM, by micro managing the specifications? I guess i am not an industry insider but i have to believe that seems odd to micromanage products from company but leave the others to do as they will.

    If that truly is the case then i guess it is shame on the carriers. Even at that you would think the carriers would have the foresight to understand hey we can sell more of these if we get better hardware and software, and demand that RIM step their game up rather than contunually play with "refreshes"...
    Last edited by the_sandman_454; 09-23-10 at 12:11 PM.
    09-23-10 12:07 PM
  13. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    is that RIM needed to get all the pieces in place for a revolution. So they acquired Torch and then QNX, plus some of the other things. But all that takes time. AT&T wanted to get the torch out. OS 5 was a mess. So short term they could bake in Web Kit to OS5 and that should buy them time to get the QNX platform running.

    But of course, they ran into an issue with BB6 on the 256 devices. They need to get BB6 out there, but have no in market to support it. What do you do? You take your existing inventory and upgrade the memory and re release it. Where possible you add some bonus stuff like a 5 mp camera or Wireless N support, or WiFi hot spot.

    BB6 and these refreshes are a stop gap. RIM is buying time so that all the pieces they have bringing together can be mature and release with some wow factor.

    If RIM uses the time they are buying wisely then the QNX platform launches with Solid App support, and a few devices (at least a Storm and a Bold, and maybe a Torch) across a few carriers.

    I really hope they also clean up the way they deliver software releases and go to big Yearly/Bi Annual/Quarterly releases.
    Well that summary is a perfect example of how rim screwed themselves by using the minimum necessary specifications for the current operating system a given device was using instead of doing like some of the other manufactures do and pushing the current bleeding edge limits of technology.

    The better browser was something that they should have been addressing 3 or 4 years ago, and brought to market on OS5. Now they are finding themselves wayyy behind the 8 ball.

    While they are messing with refreshesverses brand new/higher spec devices, their consumer customer base has been defecting to devices that will provide the functionality they demand. I mean the writing was on the wall about how important web browsing, and even portable gaming would be back several years ago but they chose to ignore it and rely on push email as their claim to fame so to speak and as what they were using to maintain customers.

    I certainly hope that the QNX OS and the new hardware they may bring out to run it on is impressive. By impressive i mean something that will at least match or possibly even exceed current android specs at the time of release.
    09-23-10 12:23 PM
  14. mark_rivers19's Avatar
    RIM has nothing new to offer so they refresh a device to keep BB loyalists under contract long enough for them to make something new. seriously there is not real reason for a billion dollar company that is #1 (only because they've been around longer) to be refreshing founds across the board instead of making brand new model. Torch just came out now RIM is pushing refresh models how easy they've forgotten about the Torch. Rumored Storm 3, and they're refreshing the Storm2? wtf, so the people that would buy a Storm 3 you're pushing a refresh model in which they'll be locked into a 2yr contract so when the Storm3 comes out they won't be able to purchase it... oh wait RIM will refresh the Storm 3 in 2012 so its okay.
    Nokia have been and still is number 1 Worldwide.
    now if you're only referring to North America...i'll agree with that... for now
    09-23-10 12:31 PM
  15. mark_rivers19's Avatar

    RIM has got to be the only (or one of a very select few) modern company(ies) out there to remain successful despite making products they want vs what the market demands.
    uhmm... Don't forget the big APPLE.
    macbook AIR, Mac Mini, Ipad..
    i don't think the absence of the optical drive (AIR), USB port (iPad), swappable batteries ( all the iphones, ipods and iPad) ARE what the market demands.
    09-23-10 12:35 PM
  16. lnichols's Avatar
    Exactly, to save a couple bucks per unit on storage memory (that is so cheap now most smartphones have multi gig amounts and it is getting cheaper and cheaper), they have now painted themselves into a corner with the OS. Yeah its better than 5, but because they were so short sited, they have to make the same phone with 512 MB of storage just to run OS6 right. So now they are releasing "refreshes" that's sole purpose is to get OS6, and OS6 is nothing more than a stopgap for QNX. They waited too long to react to the market, and the market just up the bar dramatically. They are basically selling inferior hardware and a tired OS at the same price points as high end Android devices and subsidized iPhones. I can't wait to see what QNX has to offer, but part of me just wants to say too little too late. Fortunately for RIM they have people addicted with BIS and BES services right now so the they can do this, but someone other dealer will come out with a better drug at the same price and poof.....
    09-23-10 12:37 PM
  17. raybb's Avatar
    Well that summary is a perfect example of how rim screwed themselves by using the minimum necessary specifications for the current operating system a given device was using instead of doing like some of the other manufactures do and pushing the current bleeding edge limits of technology.

    The better browser was something that they should have been addressing 3 or 4 years ago, and brought to market on OS5. Now they are finding themselves wayyy behind the 8 ball.

    While they are messing with refreshesverses brand new/higher spec devices, their consumer customer base has been defecting to devices that will provide the functionality they demand. I mean the writing was on the wall about how important web browsing, and even portable gaming would be back several years ago but they chose to ignore it and rely on push email as their claim to fame so to speak and as what they were using to maintain customers.

    I certainly hope that the QNX OS and the new hardware they may bring out to run it on is impressive. By impressive i mean something that will at least match or possibly even exceed current android specs at the time of release.
    I agree 100%, RIM needs to let it go, yet still support older devices (to a point) and concentrate on new developements, like QNX OS, OS 6, etc........ Right there is a good turn around starting point. But at the same time they are still pushing out "refresh devices" (which I do not understand). If RIM claims they are listening to customers, then why with the refresh devices? Why not just jump right into a newer hardware and software (which OS6 and QNX they are doing now) but why so behind? (those "tech's that works at RIM) should be asking themselves: What is the next blackberry we can make/develope for "OUR CUSTOMERS". it's like they are sitting and waiting for something/someone to say: hey, only if Blackberry came up with this, I would buy it right away. then they will make/develope it. I mean com'on, the Torch (don't get me wrong, it's a good phone and they built it nice with OS 6), but it was back in what 5 to 10 years ago? When other companies came up with it. Bottom line is, I hope RIM can start fresh, "not refresh" on the up coming new devices in the future.
    09-23-10 12:47 PM
  18. new yorker kid's Avatar
    Quite frankly, RIM has some new ideas and the Torch is alright (but nothing spectacular). They need to take a peek at some of the other high end devices on the market and gather some insight.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-23-10 12:48 PM
  19. new yorker kid's Avatar
    Quite frankly, RIM has some new ideas and the Torch is alright (but nothing spectacular). They need to take a peek at some of the other high end devices on the market and gather some insight.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-23-10 12:59 PM
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