[grahamf]

I'd like to believe that Blackberry users are a lot more practical than iPhone/Android users (who I believe gravitate to the latest and greatest models). Instead of buying the phone as soon as it is launched, I think most BlackBerry users will wait until their contracts are up for renewal or their old phone being due for replacement.

I can't find the poll I did a while ago, but it did have a good amount of people that said that they would wait a while.

So what I'm wondering is, does that mean that the first few months are not as important as the next two years? it's only been nine months since BB10 first launched, and the USA still doesn't have the Q5


Thoughts? Am I on the right track?

[Bbnivende]

No I think this is just inertia. BBOS users that have devices that still work as designed and who have not upgraded are likely a) great mail, texting and limited browsing coupled with buttons and trackpad meets their needs b) are too cheap to upgrade if phone still works or c) waiting to see if BB survives.

[timmy t]

I think a lot has to do with salespeople pushing people towards Apple and Android phones, at least in the US.
Also, the uncertainty that BBRY is fostering with all of its dumb comments about possibly selling the company or investigating every option like stopping making phones.
BBRY has to aggressively assert that it will be making phones for the foreseeable future.
That it will continue to support its product line etc.

[Warcony]

Agreed! The salespeople at the Carriers practically force people into iphone or Android phones (Samsung usually). Also the media casts an ugly light on BB as of late causing the uneducated mass of consumers to avoid BB.

[kbz1960]

I'm waiting for my contract but by then depending on bbry I may not even consider them.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Many BlackBerry users had been saving the renewals for the release of BB10 - so there should have bee many that were 3, 4 or more months already out of contract.

Budget... yes Z10 and Q10 were expensive at launch, but the Z10 has been available for free on contract thru many resellers for awhile. And deeply discounted even at carriers.

Slow Sales in the US is due to a platform that can not do many of the things that people do every day on other smart phones - like it or not, people use apps.

In other countries where maybe apps aren't as important.... lack of BIS and price are a factor. Hard to compare a $600 BB to a $100 Android.

[amazinglygraceless]

Looking at this budgeting issue from a different perspective I think you may have stumbled on part of the problem. That is in enterprise environments (business, government, etc...) purchases are usually tied to some form of fiscal constraint. These institutions are not as likely to switch to every new iteration of a device that comes out as that would be financially burdensome. So, a lot of these institution keep going along with what they have until there is a compelling reason / need to move on. Here, where I live, I cannot begin to tell you the number of governmental employees I encounter still using work issued devices as old as the 83xx series.

With that, you also have tens of 1,000's of users who are used to / happy with what they have and because it works may not actually consider or care that there is something new out there. Or because they have a device that is provided to them free see no reason to incur the personal expense of getting a secondary phone.

[Tre Lawrence]

I do not know many people that use Android/iOS and purchase devices to chase specs. The only person I know who upgrades constantly is a hardware reviewer; he gets paid to use new devices.

In other words, in my experience, Android and iOS users are similar to BB users. Of course, that doesn't jive with the need to refer to them as sheep, so that doesn't get much play here at times. I'm sure there are people who enjoy having new devices (heck I would with limitless cash), but for the most part, most folks don't upgrade every fortnight, IMHO.

They pick those two platforms because the feel it allows them to do more, just like BB users do, I'm sure. I'm sure comfort level is a big too.

[anon(4268859)]

For me it's a combination of parts of both your posts, and here's Why:

1: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my Torch Slider.
Best of BOTH worlds - full touch-screen PLUS full qwerty hard-keyboard. PLUS (the Bonus) the 4 buttons AND Trackpad. My trackpad JUST broke and I can't believe HOW MUCH I use that thing to navigate quickly AND precisely around the screen. In fact, I'm going to get mine fixed instead of ditching this still great AND outrageously functional phone which still works awesome otherwise, despite having been dropped at least 2x a month over 2� years.

2: Early O/S growing-pains
I'm NOT reliant on apps like some people seem to be, nor do I play (many) games, but there are some basic, understood & traditional-BB functions and abilities to do s#*t that were SO apparently missing in early releases that I couldn't justify jumping in with both feet, even by Day 54. The "random reboot" issue didn't help inspire confidence either, but at least "that" seems to have gotten resolved. Still, it's made 'waiting' much easier to bear.

3: SIX devices promised in 2013
There was talk as late as late-June that a "slider" was in the works as part of Herr Heins's promised SIX devices for the year (to date, ONLY FOUR!!, plus the coming Z30 = "FIVE"), but that's gotten quashed pretty quickly AND authoritatively .... and THAT's what I was holding out to upgrade to "around Christmas."
As it is, those friends of mine who HAVE upgraded (about 3/4) are split about 50/50 between Q and Z units, and I must say that - after playing with both "a little" (no, not actually 'using' them; just playing with them casually) - I feel pretty glum about either one, BUT I would rather have the Z's larger screen with a smart, larger (virtual) keyboard than the s#*tty tiny - and square!!! - screen of the Q.

4: CONTRACT LOCK!
When I got my Torch 2� years ago, I got locked in with my carrier for THREE years ... which expires in January, 2014. Now, I'm sure I can talk them into giving me a new one but, given the reason above, why rush it?


Normally, I'd say "EFF it, I'll wait for the next device release or generation" BUT I fear that's not going to be much of an option and that the coming "Z30" device will be underwhelming from a power & performance perspective.
Let's hope there are some Dyno-MITE "carrier incentives" on between now and Christmas, and that I'm proven wrong about the "Z30" ... OR about the slider!!

Either way, I'll be waiting just a little longer to help fill up Herr Heins's McLaren Mercedes gas tank ... sorry!

And, for the record, I am still a shareholder too!


Just my 2 cents from our penny-less country.
Cheers and Keep Moving!

I'd like to believe that Blackberry users are a lot more practical than iPhone/Android users (who I believe gravitate to the latest and greatest models). Instead of buying the phone as soon as it is launched, I think most BlackBerry users will wait until their contracts are up for renewal or their old phone being due for replacement.

I can't find the poll I did a while ago, but it did have a good amount of people that said that they would wait a while.

So what I'm wondering is, does that mean that the first few months are not as important as the next two years? it's only been nine months since BB10 first launched, and the USA still doesn't have the Q5


Thoughts? Am I on the right track?

No I think this is just inertia. BBOS users that have devices that still work as designed and who have not upgraded are likely a) great mail, texting and limited browsing coupled with buttons and trackpad meets their needs b) are too cheap to upgrade if phone still works or c) waiting to see if BB survives.

[reeneebob]

Agreed! The salespeople at the Carriers practically force people into iphone or Android phones (Samsung usually). Also the media casts an ugly light on BB as of late causing the uneducated mass of consumers to avoid BB.

You can't force someone to buy what they don't want. And if you can, that's on the buyer, not the seller.


BB8130<BB8330<BB9530<Palm Pre<HTC Desire Z<Galaxy S i9000M<iPhone 4<Palm Pixi Plus<Lumia 720<BB 9900<SGS 3<BB Z10<iPhone 5

[amazinglygraceless]

You can't force someone to buy what they don't want. And if you can, that's on the buyer, not the seller.

CANNOT be said enough.

[Tre Lawrence]

You can't force someone to buy what they don't want. And if you can, that's on the buyer, not the seller.

Lies, RB! Why do you think all the carrier staff and salespeople carry batons and brass knuckles? You think the steel-toed boots are for fashion?

[jdcfinisher]

There are also the people that don't want to jump on the first model out knowing they are going to have it for the next 2 or more years and are willing to wait for a bug free ,better hardware model . Thats what I hope is happening . OS 10.2 is the minimum that should have launched, but wasn't possible .

Posted via Z10

[reeneebob]

Lies, RB! Why do you think all the carrier staff and salespeople carry batons and brass knuckles? You think the steel-toed boots are for fashion?

Puleeze...batons and brass knuckles are pass�.

I taser bitches. Then, while they are prone and unconscious on the floor, I force them to sign contracts for a Galaxy S 4, write "BlackBerry Droolz!!!!1!1!!1!1!!1!" On their forehead in sharpie, and superglue an iPhone in their other hand. That way, all bases are covered.


BB8130<BB8330<BB9530<Palm Pre<HTC Desire Z<Galaxy S i9000M<iPhone 4<Palm Pixi Plus<Lumia 720<BB 9900<SGS 3<BB Z10<iPhone 5

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Looking at this budgeting issue from a different perspective I think you may have stumbled on part of the problem. That is in enterprise environments (business, government, etc...) purchases are usually tied to some form of fiscal constraint. These institutions are not as likely to switch to every new iteration of a device that comes out as that would be financially burdensome. So, a lot of these institution keep going along with what they have until there is a compelling reason / need to move on. Here, where I live, I cannot begin to tell you the number of governmental employees I encounter still using work issued devices as old as the 83xx series.

With that, you also have tens of 1,000's of users who are used to / happy with what they have and because it works may not actually consider or care that there is something new out there. Or because they have a device that is provided to them free see no reason to incur the personal expense of getting a secondary phone.

Which is also a reason that BES10 is having problems....

BlackBerry did NOTHING to utilize their existing users base, they just started over - whole new OS, whole new MDM System. That BES10 can manage iPhones and Androids, but not BBOS devices - except via another server and software package - is idiotic. That users on existing devices that have been purchased in the last year can't be upgraded to BB10 - is very shortsighted.

BlackBerry is basically asking enterprise to just start all over. By doing that, they have opened the door. If enterprise needs to start over, they might as well look around and see what other options there are. NEVER a good idea to open that door.

[Xopher]

Slow sales is also in part to very poor marketing. A poll showed that most Americans don't even know there is a new BlackBerry device out. And most of them that have heard of BlackBerry 10 don't know it is a completely new operating system. They automatically associate BlackBerry with legacy devices and that ecosystem.

Combine that with carriers barely having any marketing in stores, and sales people pushing Android and iPhone, it becomes a huge uphill battle, even without talking about any app gap.

It's funny. I went to BlackBerry Jam. One of the sessions was about promoting your app. Almost the entire discussion was about building up interest in your app before you release it to market. That way, you can capitalize and promote the actual release in BlackBerry World. What makes it funny to me is that BlackBerry should have taken their own class. At least here in the US, there was no build up to the release. No ads, no hints, nothing to get consumers interested in the new product.

Just look at the release in New York City. There seemed to be as many press (if not more) as there were buyers. Barely any promotional material as well.

To this day, there hasn't been one commercial that I have seen that targets consumers. The "Keep Moving" commercial barely showed the Z10. The Verizon commercial was aimed at business (late night BBM video from a coworker). Even the new Sprint commercial is aimed at business. None of it takes a personal approach towards consumers.

Personally, I think BlackBerry 10 is a great platform. I love my Z10 and what it can do. One thing I keep hearing is the people who actually try and use the device love it. But if the sales people don't take time to actually get used to the device, and consumers don't know about it, how can you expect anything but slow sales?

Posted via CB10

[c_legaspi]

I think bb's actions did that to them selves and not the media

Posted via CB10

[R Field]

I think Kevin mentioned a good point that a lot of the 9900 contracts if people bought it when it just came out will just be expiring now.

CB10- BlackBerry Z10 - 10.2.0.1047

[jay64]

Force people ?? I can only speak to at&t but nobody ever pushed any phone model on me. If I ask for suggestions they recommend models based on my stated needs, often whatever they use and are familiar with. More and more people are contract adverse and buy off other channels, so carriers get less influence due to unsubsidized phones. Sales momentum I believe is mostly word of mouth, family to family, friends to friends. BB was out of play too long and momentum tapered off. Now pending sale/breakup is a major inhibitor of sales as customers are rightfully wary of the future/support. There is simply no way to know what will become of the hardware division, it is the least valuable of their assets and could be hard to sell. Announcing the intent to sell was a kick in the rear to hardware division.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I think Kevin mentioned a good point that a lot of the 9900 contracts if people bought it when it just came out will just be expiring now.

CB10- BlackBerry Z10 - 10.2.0.1047

Contract are ALWAYS expiring.... there should have been months of people out of their contract, just waiting for those first BB10 devices. And there are still a LOT of people that are still on dumb phones that are moving up to smartphones.

Grasping at straws is all that excuse is...
First it was, millions of BB users were waiting for the first BB10 devices to be release so the Z10 launch was going to be huge.
Then it was, wll most BB users want a physical keyboard so Q10 sales are going to take-off.
Now it's, so many people were locked into a contract that we have to wait for sales to grow.

People WANT to use Instagram, People WANT to play Candy Crush, People WANT a device that is compatible with their Bank's Apps, their favorite Restaurants Apps, their School's Apps..... Simply put people WANT a compatible device that isn't limited because it isn't supported.

BlackBerry provide a platform that does not meet the needs of what people WANT! So they aren't buying it.

[JasW]

I think Kevin mentioned a good point that a lot of the 9900 contracts if people bought it when it just came out will just be expiring now.

CB10- BlackBerry Z10 - 10.2.0.1047

That's true (in the US) unless you were a BES user, in which case -- at least on AT&T -- your contract was only for 19 months instead of 24. Clearly, not many BES users who had OS 7 phones bothered.

[scorpiodsu]

When I was a blackberry user, I constantly went to the newest device when it was available. I don't think it's a good assumption to think that blackberry users are any more practical. The thing that might make you think they're more practical is the fact that there isn't as much choice as what an Android user has and not the pent up demand of iPhone with only 1 release a year so I'd argue that it's not about being practical it's that there's really nothing to run to the store for. Not saying it's good or bad, just saying. You can't paint an entire user base with a broad brush based on your own experience. But in blackberry's prime, we were all on this site drooling over the next device and switching one curve for the next curve and the Storm to the Storm 2, etc.... People who are into gadgets do it, regardless of platform.

[bmantz65]

It might be true for a small number of Average Joe consumers. Maybe they renewed their contract in December or January and saw BB10 and thought, "Crap, I really want that. But I don't want to pay a stinkin' ETF to get it." Now you have the T-Mobile, AT&T, and Verizon early upgrade and no long term contract policies and that might help, but not much. Would someone on T-Mobile's JUMP program early upgrade to a Z30? Maybe, but not likely.

[undone]

You can't force someone to buy what they don't want. And if you can, that's on the buyer, not the seller.


BB8130<BB8330<BB9530<Palm Pre<HTC Desire Z<Galaxy S i9000M<iPhone 4<Palm Pixi Plus<Lumia 720<BB 9900<SGS 3<BB Z10<iPhone 5

A good sales person can sell ice to Eskimos. As well as pray on the weak minded (or knowledge deficient) when they are trying to decide on things with out knowing boo about them. But yea...its is on them at that point.