03-31-14 11:46 AM
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  1. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    While that is true the stats are rather old. Most poeple who hold a Samsung or iPhone device and are in the position to upgrade are mainly business savvy where BlackBerry has lost considerable. The other bunch of upgrades comes from people who Apple fanatics - those who save their last penny to buy anything Apple. Not many people buy Samsung devices since their spec are relatively the same. And those who do get Samsung are obviously moving from either iPhone or Blackberry.

    Here in Australia, there are still quite a bit of people who use BlackBerry while there are large use in corporate environment. Blackberry can come back and regain a strong stance in the market but would need to produce pretty much like Samsung does. Samsung works on trials - if it works then it will be mass produced. But if BB could invest in store-fronts it would make a hell of a difference.
    Simple big *** signs that says something with Z30 25+ hours of battery life.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    03-27-14 10:24 PM
  2. donmateo's Avatar
    Chen never talks about marketing advertising or commercials.

    Posted via CB10
    He has mentioned a few times that more will be done.

    Posted via CB10
    03-27-14 11:26 PM
  3. milo53's Avatar
    Chen never talks about marketing advertising or commercials.

    Posted via CB10
    He is busy interviewing lawyers for the ever expanding legal team!
    03-28-14 12:30 AM
  4. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    What reality dose? This just confirms people are too insecure to look at other options.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    I guess if you forget the part that 4 out of 5 BB users switch. They must be very secure to look at other options! Just showing that your statement really is bad for BB either way and it's nothing to do with "insecure people."
    03-28-14 12:41 AM
  5. AthenaSmith's Avatar
    Here in the Philippines, there were billboards and newspaper advertisements for the Bold 9900 and the Z10 when they were launched. But I didn't see any thereafter for the Q10 and the Z30, which is unfortunate because the advertisements might have attracted interest from both new potential users and legacy users.

    The market needs more awareness of BlackBerry's great products. One of my best friends, a Torch user, initially considered upgrading to Samsung even if she liked BlackBerry because she wasn't aware of the BB10 devices. When she saw an ad of the Z10, she got one right away. If there had been no advertisement, BlackBerry would have lost another user.

    If I hadn't been a member of CrackBerry, I might never have learned about the Q10, which is now my current phone upgraded from Bold 9900. Which makes me wonder how many other legacy device users like me (but who weren't CrackBerry visitors) switched brands simply because they didn't know any better and weren't aware of the new products. There are still a considerable number of BlackBerry users here, so I hope the Z3, Q20, and other future BB10 devices get the advertising it deserves.

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-14 01:15 AM
  6. jakie55's Avatar
    The comments about people not switching until the cost of staying is higher than the cost of changing is very true in my case. I was very happy, back in the day, with my flip phone and Palm PDA. Then Palm was sold, to HP, and the PDA disappeared. I was considering a Treo, but had a relative who had nothing but problems with the phone....don't go there, I thought. So...BlackBerry it was, in 2010. Given the market numbers then, I was not the only one. Today, there has to be huge incentives for people to migrate back to BlackBerry. One of the things in the past, was the incredibly cheap messaging on BBM, compared to what data cost back then. Yes, the devices need to be top notch, but also there has to be some sort of hook, to convince people to give BlackBerry another look.... oh yes, and marketing like crazy, regarding that hook.
    03-28-14 02:07 AM
  7. sb_bb's Avatar
    It doesn't matter if the stats are old or not. Daily we read in the forum about people who want to go into a carrier store and hold/see a Z30 in the flesh... and can't. With the lack of carrier support an openness even here in many Canadian stores, it is no surprise that people walk out with an iphone or android device. If they don't see BB10 functionality, why should they just believe it is so much better than OS6,7?

    You have to be a truly committed fan, who is familiar with BB10 and willing to fight to get your hands on a Z30, and even a Z10 n many places. That is just sad!!

    I love my Z30 and show it off when ever I have the chance, hoping that some people will then be willing to buy one without seeing one in a store, or having an agent talk it up.
    03-28-14 02:45 AM
  8. campbecw's Avatar
    The funniest thing about it is that Samsung phones are god awful! I like android! But when I say that I'm referring to Nexus phones, and the HTC One. Maaaaaybe the Sony Z1. But Touchwiz is a disaster. People rag on BlackBerry 10 for being inconsistent and having too many "hidden" menus. Well, Touchwiz wins in that department.

    The kinds of people who cling to Samsung are the most uninformed smartphone buying people to date. This stat is the result of millions of dollars of advertising, nothing more.

    However. That doesn't make it any less significant. Just enraging. Seeing a terrible product best out even other android OS's that are superior simply because of the marketing power behind it frustrates to no end. BlackBerry needs to take a page from Samsung book and note that with enough marketing, even garbage can be touted around as gold.

    Daily Old Radio Shows! The only Channel that actually offers you a source for entertainment. C0012487D
    03-28-14 02:57 AM
  9. tchocky77's Avatar
    This just confirms people are too insecure to look at other options.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

    That's an insecurity not shared by BlackBerry users then isn't it.



    Sent from my iPad using CB Forums
    03-28-14 03:52 AM
  10. A895's Avatar
    The funniest thing about it is that Samsung phones are god awful! I like android! But when I say that I'm referring to Nexus phones, and the HTC One. Maaaaaybe the Sony Z1. But Touchwiz is a disaster. People rag on BlackBerry 10 for being inconsistent and having too many "hidden" menus. Well, Touchwiz wins in that department.

    The kinds of people who cling to Samsung are the most uninformed smartphone buying people to date. This stat is the result of millions of dollars of advertising, nothing more.

    However. That doesn't make it any less significant. Just enraging. Seeing a terrible product best out even other android OS's that are superior simply because of the marketing power behind it frustrates to no end. BlackBerry needs to take a page from Samsung book and note that with enough marketing, even garbage can be touted around as gold.

    Daily Old Radio Shows! The only Channel that actually offers you a source for entertainment. C0012487D
    Actually Samsung devices, feature wise, are some of the best devices out there. Samsung may throw everything I'm their phones, but that's what keeps consumers coming back. They have features that other phones don't have. From the SPen to the smart stay and smart pause it all is unique. They toned down touchwiz a lot with the Samsung S5 too. I still prefer Motorola over anything though.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-28-14 04:26 AM
  11. lurk_n_post_2000's Avatar
    No one should be surprised by this, more than 90% of blackberry users went to apple or android phones when T-Mobile ran that upgrade promotion recently, even with the extra $50 rebate offered customers wishing to stay with blackberry. Some people are saying that some folks just pulled an old blackberry out of a drawer to get the deal, but still.
    03-28-14 06:07 AM
  12. clickitykeys's Avatar
    Except when BBRY folks do it, is admirable "loyalty," but when folks on other platforms do it, it's being lazy LOL.
    This does not account for the statistical rarity of Blackberry phones in the view of a typical user. So, indeed, when a user persists with Blackberry in spite of the sea of alternatives that he is bombarded with daily, there _is_ a legitimate argument to be made for loyalty, whether admirable or not. Conversely, when a user persists with an iPhone or an Android phone owing to a complete lack of awareness about Blackberry, there _is_ a legitimate argument to be made for laziness or ignorance.

    I am absolutely not saying that Blackberry users are all loyal and other platform users are all lazy, but saying that your statement fails to recognize the essential difference in the visibility of Blackberry versus the other platforms. WikiCydia's post is essentially correct, but yours is a bit of an oversimplification.
    Last edited by clickitykeys; 03-28-14 at 10:12 AM.
    gokulesh and mnc76 like this.
    03-28-14 08:55 AM
  13. A895's Avatar
    This does not account for the statistical rarity of Blackberry phones in the view of a typical user. So, indeed, when a user persists with Blackberry in spite of the sea of alternatives that he is bombarded with daily, there _is_ a legitimate argument to be made for loyalty, whether admirable or not. Conversely, when a user persists with an iPhone or an Android phone owing to a compete lack of awareness about Blackberry, there _is_ a legitimate argument to be made for laziness or ignorance.

    I am absolutely not saying that Blackberry users are all loyal and other platform users are all lazy, but saying that your statement fails to recognize the essential difference in the visibility of Blackberry versus the other platforms. WikiCydia's post is essentially correct, but yours is a bit of an oversimplification.
    Should it be ignorance or laziness if users of other platforms know the weaknesses of BlackBerry and choose not to use it? You may be simplifying it slightly too. Just because someone chooses not to use BlackBerry does not mean they are being ignorant of it.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    TgeekB and bbq10l like this.
    03-28-14 09:16 AM
  14. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    This does not account for the statistical rarity of Blackberry phones in the view of a typical user. So, indeed, when a user persists with Blackberry in spite of the sea of alternatives that he is bombarded with daily, there _is_ a legitimate argument to be made for loyalty, whether admirable or not. Conversely, when a user persists with an iPhone or an Android phone owing to a compete lack of awareness about Blackberry, there _is_ a legitimate argument to be made for laziness or ignorance.
    That's fair, but then we must also consider that there was a time when iPhone and Android were scarce, and BBRY devices were ubiquitous. There was a time when BBRY controlled a larger percentage of the U.S. market than Apple does now, yet we all know what happened. So, while there is certainly some advantage to everyone knowing your devices exist, that advantage alone doesn't get a platform very far. Ask Windows Phone.
    03-28-14 09:32 AM
  15. donmateo's Avatar
    No one should be surprised by this, more than 90% of blackberry users went to apple or android phones when T-Mobile ran that upgrade promotion recently, even with the extra $50 rebate offered customers wishing to stay with blackberry. Some people are saying that some folks just pulled an old blackberry out of a drawer to get the deal, but still.
    Hidden variables I'm sure accounts for some of that number.

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-14 09:37 AM
  16. clickitykeys's Avatar
    Should it be ignorance or laziness if users of other platforms know the weaknesses of BlackBerry and choose not to use it? You may be simplifying it slightly too. Just because someone chooses not to use BlackBerry does not mean they are being ignorant of it.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    Please read my post carefully. Especially the part where it says: "I am absolutely not saying that Blackberry users are all loyal and other platform users are all lazy, but saying that your statement fails to recognize the essential difference in the visibility of Blackberry versus the other platforms."

    You are essentially repeating what I said there.
    03-28-14 10:14 AM
  17. clickitykeys's Avatar
    That's fair, but then we must also consider that there was a time when iPhone and Android were scarce, and BBRY devices were ubiquitous. There was a time when BBRY controlled a larger percentage of the U.S. market than Apple does now, yet we all know what happened. So, while there is certainly some advantage to everyone knowing your devices exist, that advantage alone doesn't get a platform very far. Ask Windows Phone.
    Yes, agreed. Usability matters. App availability matters. Ecosystem matters. User base matters. I'm not disputing that at all.
    03-28-14 10:16 AM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    This does not account for the statistical rarity of Blackberry phones in the view of a typical user. So, indeed, when a user persists with Blackberry in spite of the sea of alternatives that he is bombarded with daily, there _is_ a legitimate argument to be made for loyalty, whether admirable or not. Conversely, when a user persists with an iPhone or an Android phone owing to a complete lack of awareness about Blackberry, there _is_ a legitimate argument to be made for laziness or ignorance.

    I am absolutely not saying that Blackberry users are all loyal and other platform users are all lazy, but saying that your statement fails to recognize the essential difference in the visibility of Blackberry versus the other platforms. WikiCydia's post is essentially correct, but yours is a bit of an oversimplification.
    Yes, definitely an oversimplification, albeit tongue-in-cheek.

    I'll simplify even more: each platform deals/dealt with consumer ignorance; the first salvo, IMHO, is to make a truly competitive product. It took Apple a while, and ook Android a while, and it's taking BBRY a while.

    Dissatisfied consumers will look for alternatives. If, say, Apple customers are not bothering to look anywhere else when its time to upgrade, kudos to Apple for creating that type of satisfaction.
    03-28-14 10:29 AM
  19. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Yes, agreed. Usability matters. App availability matters. Ecosystem matters. User base matters. I'm not disputing that at all.
    Agreed.
    03-28-14 10:30 AM
  20. anon(3732391)'s Avatar
    Whatever "percentage" dropped their BlackBerry, will no doubt come back triple-fold as BlackBerry regains the #1 spot.

    The crisis of yesterday,
    is the joke of tomorrow!
    03-28-14 10:38 AM
  21. iN8ter's Avatar
    What reality dose? This just confirms people are too insecure to look at other options.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    Wow... The most skill less spin I've ever seen.

    Secure: Samsung and Apple users are secure with their choices. To the point that they don't see the need to look at other options. You don't just walk into a store close your eyes, spin around and point at a phone. It's a decision making process and those users simply don't see a need for going through that if they are comfortable and like what they've been using. This also shows the FUD that is peddled around on forums like this one about other platforms have little to no affect on the average consumer's purchasing decisions.

    Insecure: Blackberry users aren't as secure with BB as an OEM/Platform, so they're actually going out and evaluating options - and the majority are jumping the gun. One could probably assume that they didn't bother looking at a BB10 device (or say the carrier refused to show them one, that seems to be the latest rage around here), but I don't necessarily think that's the case. Those people simply don't feel comfortable with Blackberry at the moment. They did a clean break OS upgrade at a pretty inopportune time, the messaging is all clustered (Focusing on Enterprise... Want them Prosumers... Still in the Consumer market... 50% Chance to Fail... Legal Action against Leakers when the Leaks are basically what kept OS10 device usable for a lot of users....).
    bbq10l likes this.
    03-28-14 11:35 AM
  22. iN8ter's Avatar
    My kids refuse to play certain games on their iPhone and Android after experiencing it on my Z10.

    Z10 on T-Mobile, 32 GB PlayBook - Posted via CrackBerry 10
    The Z10 is not outperforming any 2013 Android/iOS Flagships in gaming. Sorry.

    Some people here will believe that, but they'd also believe anything that is unfavorable to those other devices. Doesn't make it true.

    That doesn't happen. Those phones are all amazing in gaming, and the hardware is clearly superior to what's in a Z10 (which is HTC One X/Galaxy S3-era hardware, by the way). My S3 had no issues playing games, so it's not like its anything that the average consumer would have to worry about, anyways.
    bbq10l likes this.
    03-28-14 11:45 AM
  23. TGR1's Avatar
    Actually Samsung devices, feature wise, are some of the best devices out there. Samsung may throw everything I'm their phones, but that's what keeps consumers coming back. They have features that other phones don't have. From the SPen to the smart stay and smart pause it all is unique. They toned down touchwiz a lot with the Samsung S5 too. I still prefer Motorola over anything though.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    Also work with their TVs, tablets. I am almost tempted to say with their dryers/fridges as well but I may be thinking LG (?)
    03-28-14 11:56 AM
  24. iN8ter's Avatar
    Yes, definitely an oversimplification, albeit tongue-in-cheek.

    I'll simplify even more: each platform deals/dealt with consumer ignorance; the first salvo, IMHO, is to make a truly competitive product. It took Apple a while, and ook Android a while, and it's taking BBRY a while.

    Dissatisfied consumers will look for alternatives. If, say, Apple customers are not bothering to look anywhere else when its time to upgrade, kudos to Apple for creating that type of satisfaction.
    I don't think it's really an oversimplification. I think it's really just that simple... I think that some people just want to complicate it so that they can find reason to accept the results and make it look less bad for their chosen platform/OEM.

    If people don't care about other platforms, because they think the one they're on works find for them, that's not ignorance. I don't expect an OSX user who is happy with their Mac to consider purchasing a Windows PC... That's called customer satisfaction and brand/UX loyalty, and it's what every OEM strives for - to be at the top of the minds of their customers, and hopefully be the "only choice" when it's time to buy a new device. After you've scored the initial sale, marketing loses its effectiveness on that user because they form first hand experiences with, and opinions on, your product/brand.

    It doesn't matter how great Samsung says "The Next Big Thing" is if the user had a poor experience on "The Last Big Thing" they used. That opinion will cancel out even the best marketing campaign, and their word-of-mouth accounts to their friends/colleagues will likely weigh heavily as well. The FUD campaigns we see on forums like this one are ineffective because real users of those devices (and especially the more recent devices, not the ones from half a decade ago) have completely different accounts, opinions, requirements, and likes.

    You hear it everyday on the streets. People say things like "I can't wait for the next Galaxy to come out, I'm gonna get that one," or "I'm waiting for the next iPhone release to upgrade."

    Also, this works on more than just a platform level. It also works within platform ecosystems. How do you think Nokia basically dominated the Windows Phone ecosystem, or Samsung continues to dominate Android? By being first: as in first in the minds of their users. I'm sure a lot of users have seen Apple, Nokia, LG, Motorola, Sony, and HTC phones in the carrier store... But if they want a Samsung, they will get a Samsung. People here may feel sensitive and get their feelings hurts when the Reps make a recommendations they don't like, but a lot of people in the real world shrug that off and simply get what they want. Those are just recommendations/ideas. I haven't spoken to anyone who had a phone choice made for them by a sales rep, they all made that decision themselves.

    Install Base does matter. Not only because a lot of features on these phones are limited to certain OEMs' devices, but because it allows users who do not use your platform to become acclimated to it simply by virtue of association with a lot of other people who use those devices. The cheapest way to trial a device, is to know someone who owns it or see a lot of people using them out and about. That is not in Blackberry's favor.

    The Swiping navigation on BB10 confuses most people I direct to their phones. This would be less of an issue if half the people they knew used BB10 device. They'd have been already known how to use the phone simply because they had already seen it being used so much by others.
    Tre Lawrence likes this.
    03-28-14 12:05 PM
  25. iN8ter's Avatar
    Also work with their TVs, tablets. I am almost tempted to say with their dryers/fridges as well but I may be thinking LG (?)
    Their PCs also are coming with Apps/Features specifically designed to interop with their other devices (including their smartphones).
    03-28-14 12:06 PM
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