[sentimentGX4]

I still see people today going around with the iPhone 3!, just because you decided it wasn't worth its price tag doesn't mean other people would, in fact if most other people did then it wouldn't have that price tag anymore!

Using an iPhone 3G/3GS in 2015 is not the same as buying a new iPhone 3G/3GS in 2015. The 3G/3GS are not longer top sellers, even in developing nations.

In the same vein, many rational consumers would not consider a Z30 at any price. No one outside Crackberry is buying Blackberry's excuse for egregiously outdated technology. It's not necessarily a spec race; but, Blackberry needs half way relevant hardware if it expects to be taken seriously.

(Cue the grossly misinformed comment about iPhone and outdated specs.)

[z10Jobe]

Using an iPhone 3G/3GS in 2015 is not the same as buying a new iPhone 3G/3GS in 2015. The 3G/3GS are not longer top sellers, even in developing nations.

In the same vein, many rational consumers would not consider a Z30 at any price. No one outside Crackberry is buying Blackberry's excuse for egregiously outdated technology. It's not necessarily a spec race; but, Blackberry 00needs half way relevant hardware if it expects to be taken seriously.

(Cue the grossly misinformed comment about iPhone and outdated specs.)

At any price? Really? Methinks that thou trolleth too much.

A semi sheepish colleague of mine wanted to buy my spare z30 off of me because his iPhone 5s would only work when hugging walls and he didn't want to spend $100 to get it fixed. So there you go.

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

Using an iPhone 3G/3GS in 2015 is not the same as buying a new iPhone 3G/3GS in 2015. The 3G/3GS are not longer top sellers, even in developing nations.

In the same vein, many rational consumers would not consider a Z30 at any price. No one outside Crackberry is buying Blackberry's excuse for egregiously outdated technology. It's not necessarily a spec race; but, Blackberry needs half way relevant hardware if it expects to be taken seriously.

(Cue the grossly misinformed comment about iPhone and outdated specs.)

Wow, what a generalisation, you mean to say anyone buying a Z30 today has a crackberry account.. okay, do you not realise that the average Joe doesn't care much about a lot of what you're talking about? You're also speaking as if BlackBerry launched the Z30 yesterday..

There are people who like blackberry, not that much into specs just want a phone that works and today would buy a Z30 it's still a decent phone! A better comparison is the iphone 4 which I'm pretty sure is way older than the Z30 has dated specs yet still sells in developing markets..


Is the Z30 and old phone - yes
Are there people who would still buy it - yes

Chen has said time and again he's looking to be cost effective, fitting in the latest tech just because it's what's raving isn't cost effective, the best isn't always the latest (overheating snapdragon much?) yes BlackBerry could have done better, but the key to increasing sales is getting people to buy into the WHY not the WHAT, there are always going to be competitors that can make better specs phones than BlackBerry.

Check Out TechCraze

[tinochiko]

This is a talk from 2009, 2009! Yet more relevant today especially for BlackBerry http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek...on?language=en


BlackBerry needs a sustainable model, and it won't get that just from losing money making a few fans happy by making top of the spec phones that their software doesn't even need to run efficiently, it just needs to be enough, and again I acknowledge that it hasn't even been enough for some devices


Check Out TechCraze

[Bbnivende]

Wow, what a generalisation, you mean to say anyone buying a Z30 today has a crackberry account.. okay, do you not realise that the average Joe doesn't care much about a lot of what you're talking about? You're also speaking as if BlackBerry launched the Z30 yesterday..

There are people who like blackberry, not that much into specs just want a phone that works and today would buy a Z30 it's still a decent phone! A better comparison is the iphone 4 which I'm pretty sure is way older than the Z30 has dated specs yet still sells in developing markets..


Is the Z30 and old phone - yes
Are there people who would still buy it - yes

Chen has said time and again he's looking to be cost effective, fitting in the latest tech just because it's what's raving isn't cost effective, the best isn't always the latest (overheating snapdragon much?) yes BlackBerry could have done better, but the key to increasing sales is getting people to buy into the WHY not the WHAT, there are always going to be competitors that can make better specs phones than BlackBerry.

Check Out TechCraze

What is the why?

There is one way to increase sales but BlackBerry seemingly does not have the resources. Increase the warranty to a full two years and offer a 24/7 help support line for purchasers of new BlackBerry's.

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

What is the why?

Posted via CB10

Going out of this thread now and I've been meaning to write a proper thread on it hopefully I'll have it up soon,

But for now I'll say it's not really a question for me to answer, BlackBerry need to figure it out themselves, it's not just about the security it's about the personality of the brand, why the founders founded it, what it's purpose is, once BlackBerry encapsulates that then they can be sustainable forever because they can make anything and as long as it leads out from the why and backs up the (i.e. If the why is to secure everything and everyone then they must do that they can't cut corners on security)

The closest I can get without putting much thought into it is something like;

To enable businesses and individuals to securely and reliably communicate, collaborate and creatively exceed their goals without having to worry about the technology.

That's a really poor why, it needs to be something short, something that will draw the people who believe it in as soon as they hear it, then everything BlackBerry does needs to come back to make sure it's in line with the 'why' employees need to know and understand the 'why' this is what separates significant companies from the successful.

BlackBerry does have a why, at its peak and even now there is something that makes people defend BlackBerry day and night, why? To them BlackBerry is more than just a phone company, and understanding what made those people evangelists is the key to reaching out to people who love the 'why' of BlackBerry, but just don't know it yet..

I know it may sound like just some marketing bs but hopefully it makes some sense

Check Out TechCraze

[tinochiko]

What is the why?

There is one way to increase sales but BlackBerry seemingly does not have the resources. Increase the warranty to a full two years and offer a 24/7 help support line for purchasers of new BlackBerry's.

Posted via CB10

That is definitely part of the 'why' and BlackBerry has resources, it's just a matter of making a choice on what's more important, there are always ways of creatively solving problems, BlackBerry should have 24/7 support.

I am seeing some changes, increased social media responsiveness, consolidating the beta zone feedback and improving that system (one of the most important areas)

More aggressive advertising and marketing as a whole factcheck, BlackBerry blogs, recently I've received some awesome enterprise emails from BlackBerry and guess what, they don't start with 'this is what we're selling' they start with thought provoking questions e.g.



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[Tank1978]

I think they need to stick with the classic, a low end pkb, and start focusing on the slab phones, they def need a high end touch!

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

That is definitely part of the 'why' and BlackBerry has resources, it's just a matter of making a choice on what's more important, there are always ways of creatively solving problems, BlackBerry should have 24/7 support.

I am seeing some changes, increased social media responsiveness, consolidating the beta zone feedback and improving that system (one of the most important areas)

More aggressive advertising and marketing as a whole factcheck, BlackBerry blogs, recently I've received some awesome enterprise emails from BlackBerry and guess what, they don't start with 'this is what we're selling' they start with thought provoking questions e.g.



Check Out TechCraze

Yes but your cite was for BES .

I think that BlackBerry's lack of response to their PKB double typing issues indicates that it is business as usual at BlackBerry.

[z10Jobe]

Yes but your cite was for BES .

I think that BlackBerry's lack of response to their PKB double typing issues indicates that it is business as usual at BlackBerry.

Its called the q5. inexpensive, yet effective and reliable.

Posted via CB10

[howarmat]

Its called the q5. inexpensive, yet effective and reliable.

Posted via CB10

so your suggestion to "fix" the double type issue is to buy a different model that is seemingly not affected?

[z10Jobe]

so your suggestion to "fix" the double type issue is to buy a different model that is seemingly not affected?

Yep and yepper. They are on sale for $100 now in Canada. Soooo if you want a great inexpensive single typing physical keyboard tough, small phone, it does exist.

On a grander scale, BlackBerry should be updating this device with their modular 1.5 ghz cpu and 8 mega pixel camera to satisfy the worriers that the phone is slow (it is actually quite snappy) and to keep costs down. And they should sell it cheap and actually produce the coloured versions such as the pink one ( got it for my daughter) .

Just my 2 cents



Posted via CB10

[Irish Blues]

For all the bleating about specs, someone (doesn't matter who) should come out with a phone sporting a minimum 8GB RAM, 256GB internal storage, 32MB camera, and whatever screen size and display factors one desires. Aside from more internal memory, It would do nothing to actually improve the functionality of the phone - but hey, it would have top, top, top-of-the-line specs.

And then we could see just how quickly people flock to this ultra-high end device, to settle the "need better specs" question once and for all.

[RyanGermann]

Yea of course, I also still see people using Sony Ericsson flip phones.

What I meant was, that you can assume that the majority of current iOS users with iPhone 5, 5s, 6 or 6 plus (or even 4/4s) bought those phones because they are easy to use, modern, stylish and fun (also due to their app offering). Those types of people will not see the Z30 as an "excellent" phone as Ryan put it, because the Z30 is neither very up-to-date, nor very "fun" to use (not even talking about apps).

I'm not saying the Z30 is a bad phone - not by any means - it's a productive phone with a great design - but its just not good enough to convince iOS users to consider switching to BlackBerry.

That's what is wrong with your analysis: you DID find a suitable device on BB10 and you are NOT this mythical walking contradiction that seriously wants to switch to BB10 from iPhone but can't find an adequate device. The Z30 wasn't adequate in you opinion, but here you are.

Secondly, we're also NOT talking about people who buy anything BECAUSE it is powerful. They will buy whatever BlackBerry shyts out so long as it is super powerful: there aren't enough people like that to sustain BB.

Third, you say the Z30 IS A great device. We agree. What iPhone user SERIOUSLY considering switching to BB10 would dismiss the Z30? A LIAR who isn't really all that serious if they can't be "bothered" to discover the Z30's merits. If they were going to switch for a POWERFUL device, they are a "powerful device nerd" not "an iPhone user thinking of switching platforms". The differences between what defines various user classes may be subtle. BlackBerry's device strategy reflects analysis of that, and since BlackBerry isn't interested (rightly or wrongly) in "powerful device nerds", they aren't prioritizing the powerful full touch. I think they should, but it won't grow market share, it will just spike revenue for a quarter as BB10 device users upgrade.

Don't underestimate the inertia a dissatisfied iPhone user has to overcome to get to the point where a BB10 device is even being considered: if they are not happy with iPhone, will their FIRST thought not be to consider Android? Then, they have to rule that out and think about BB10. They have come a LONG WAY to get to this point... they've climbed mountains and forged rivers of thought for an iPhone user to first rule out Android and 'discover' BB10: with minimal representation in retail, they MUST come online and start learning about BB10 devices. They may glance at the Z30 specs and be unimpressed... but then, they just GIVE UP, then and there? Everywhere they look they'll see praise for the Z30, and it can be had brand new unlocked for $200: less than the out-of-pocket price for a subsidized Android or iOS flagship that requires signing a two-year contract on an over $70-per-month plan. But they've already ruled out Android, and they're switching FROM iPhone, so if the demand full touch they would have to CONSIDER the Z30 at this point. If they DO buy one they WILL be happy.

Those that put device specs above OS platform as buying criteria are "powerful device nerds" first and foremost, and there aren't enough of those that will buty a powerful BB10 device every quarter to sustain BlackBerry device sales. BlackBerry device sales will be built on factors that devices on other platforms can't match: unique form factors, BB10 itself, security. If you want a powerful daily driver there are 6 that come to mind that don't run BB10 and are excellent: if you have decided in the BB10 platform, the Z30 or Passport or Classic are all excellent choices.

[Bbnivende]

I agree Ryan, the only caveat is that many if not most consumers just look at the contract price of the phone.

[twiggyrj]

Don't underestimate the inertia a dissatisfied iPhone user has to overcome to get to the point where a BB10 device is even being considered: if they are not happy with iPhone, will their FIRST thought not be to consider Android? Then, they have to rule that out and think about BB10. They have come a LONG WAY to get to this point... they've climbed mountains and forged rivers of thought for an iPhone user to first rule out Android and 'di

Those that put device specs above OS platform as buying criteria are "powerful device nerds" first and foremost, and there aren't enough of those that will but a powerful BB10 device every quarter to sustain BlackBerry device sales. BlackBerry device sales will be built on factors that devices on other platforms can't match: unique form factors, BB10 itself, security. If you want a powerful daily driver there are 6 that come to mind that don't run BB10 and are excellent: if you have decided in the BB10 platform, the Z30 or Passport or Classic are all excellent choices.

I overall agree, especially with experience and platform over specs but the Z30 is a little old now and a dissatisfied iPhone user would have to get past Android and Windows Phone and you can get great performance, decent app support from an equally priced Lumia 930 with better specs at a similar price to a Z30.

The Z30 is a great device with good user experience but it does have a few barriers of entry that a user has to decide to cross and with steep competition it has to face but if a a user does reach the end of all the possible choices I can definitely see where you are coming from.

[sentimentGX4]

Those that put device specs above OS platform as buying criteria are "powerful device nerds" first and foremost, and there aren't enough of those that will but a powerful BB10 device every quarter to sustain BlackBerry device sales.

The problem is that BB10 mainly appeals to "powerful device nerds". Consider the popularity of the BB Passport on Crackberry. Even for those who can overlook specs, they really don't want to.

The issue with appealing to customers other than "powerful device nerds" is that the demographic are least receptive toward BB10. Many of these consumers unconcerned with specs happen to not pay much attention to the details of their smartphone. It's less likely they'd be dissatisfied with iOS or Android because of this.

Another issue is that the consumers are less likely to be aware of BB10. Individuals who pay to attention to specs are less likely to be informed regarding the going ons of the tech world. Many of these individuals are not even aware of what an OS is. Microsoft has basically done the experiment plastering Windows Phone ads everywhere and awareness of Windows Phone remains abysmal because for many consumers who view the ads they don't understand what it is.

Finally, there is simply the issue that many of these individuals shop in brick and mortar stores. Physical testing is more important to individuals unaware of specs because they feel the need to try out the product to precisely know what they are getting. They are less likely to purchase a device online that they have never tested physically.

The most major barrier to a consumer choosing BB10 isn't even apps or a bad reputation. It is "awareness". Without awareness, a customer cannot even begin to consider a BB10 device. Since "powerful device nerds" tend to have the greatest awareness (and even among them awareness of what BB10 is low), this is BBRY's primary potential consumer base.

BBRY can try to find a niche among the security conscious or those interested in keyboard but note that even they are not mutually exclusive with "powerful device nerds". Many happen to be "powerful device nerds" that prioritize another aspect of their phone and weigh the disadvantages of having inferior specs. Also, these individuals happen to be the ultra minority.

Because of this, BBRY should not overlook specs. Having reasonable specs on devices won't propel BB10 to the top; but, not having reasonable specs will ensure that BB10 continues a downward trajectory.

[Bbnivende]

I was in Best Buy Canada and a person was talking to the salesman about the Classic and Passport. The salesman was not dissing the product but he did not have much info either. The male customer was in his late 60's and his only connection to BlackBerry appears to be that he owns a Playbook. He does not want to "type on glass". His second thought was that the Classic was cheaper than the Passport. He did not care about the OS at all. Could have been anything. I told him about the Leap as I thought that an all touch would be more reliable. In the end, I directed him to the nearest Telus outlet that had working demo models.

My takeaway was that in North America and probably the UK there are plenty of potential customers who are seniors. The draw is the PKB and a lower on contract cost. This segment might be drawn to the BlackBerry as a prepaid phone. Lastly, without a working demo model on hand, BlackBerry will only be singing to the converted.

[Cynycl]

I was in Best Buy Canada and a person was talking to the salesman about the Classic and Passport. The salesman was not dissing the product but he did not have much info either. The male customer was in his late 60's and his only connection to BlackBerry appears to be that he owns a Playbook. He does not want to "type on glass". His second thought was that the Classic was cheaper than the Passport. He did not care about the OS at all. Could have been anything. I told him about the Leap as I thought that an all touch would be more reliable. In the end, I directed him to the nearest Telus outlet that had working demo models.

My takeaway was that in North America and probably the UK there are plenty of potential customers who are seniors. The draw is the PKB and a lower on contract cost. This segment might be drawn to the BlackBerry as a prepaid phone. Lastly, without a working demo model on hand, BlackBerry will only be singing to the converted.

Must really hate that playbook then. How is the Leap a solution for someone who doesn't want to type on glass? I'm confused.

I agree 100% with the second paragraph though.

[Cynycl]

so your suggestion to "fix" the double type issue is to buy a different model that is seemingly not affected?

reminds me of Daffy Duck sayin......

"For a small price, I can install this little blue button to get you down"

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I think he is talking about the Classic being a good prepaid option...

But as the prepaid market is consumer orientated, and I haven't seen any of the major Prepaid here in the US that carrier the BB10 devices - you can BYOB. Not sure why the Classic would be a good fit for Seniors? I know a few that preferred a virtual keyboard as they could more easier see the letters on the keyboard. Maybe if you are a senior and you were familiar with a BlackBerry it would be a good option.

But this is an old argument that we had back when the Q5 was release and many expect it to become a big prepaid player.....

[Bbnivende]

The Classic is too expensive for a prepay. Maybe in 6 months the Leap might be a prepay option.

Posted via CB10

[RyanGermann]

The issue with appealing to customers other than "powerful device nerds" is that the demographic are least receptive toward BB10. Many of these consumers unconcerned with specs happen to not pay much attention to the details of their smartphone. It's less likely they'd be dissatisfied with iOS or Android because of this.

I think the most succinct description of those that favour BB devices over Android and iOS is: "no-nonsense communicators".

This is why corporations choose BB10 devices, because BB10 devices are "no nonsense" from many perspectives: from deployment, management, communcations use, employee productivity (perception or reality thereof) etc. It's why I as a consumer use a BB10 device for my PERSONAL communications, and don't really use it at ALL for 'business communications'. My employer doesn't issue me a mobile device and I don't respond to work emails or calls after hours unless it's an emergency, and they're rare in my line of work. I have a great Web browser and some great native apps and some decently-performing Android apps and don't miss apps like SnapChat because, pardon the term, if I'm a "no-nonsense communicator", I think of SnapChat users as "nonsense communicators". I know, huge valuation, gazillions of users, etc. I'm wrong, but there it is.

There is an appeal for BlackBerry devices amongst consumers in the "no-nonsense communicators" group, whether they be communicating for business or personal reasons or a mixture of both: they want an OS optimized for communications (which is best done by the centralized nature of the Hub, rather than a mishmash of notifications and apps and different UX and different processes for each... the Hub simplifies and organizes and is what non-BB10 "no-nonsense communicator" users need to discover about BB10, and they're the ones that are going to migrate to BB10 if it is at all possible after BB releases the Hub on iOS and Android.)

Another issue is that the consumers are less likely to be aware of BB10. Individuals who pay to attention to specs are less likely to be informed regarding the going ons of the tech world. Many of these individuals are not even aware of what an OS is. Microsoft has basically done the experiment plastering Windows Phone ads everywhere and awareness of Windows Phone remains abysmal because for many consumers who view the ads they don't understand what it is.

Finally, there is simply the issue that many of these individuals shop in brick and mortar stores. Physical testing is more important to individuals unaware of specs because they feel the need to try out the product to precisely know what they are getting. They are less likely to purchase a device online that they have never tested physically.

The most major barrier to a consumer choosing BB10 isn't even apps or a bad reputation. It is "awareness". Without awareness, a customer cannot even begin to consider a BB10 device. Since "powerful device nerds" tend to have the greatest awareness (and even among them awareness of what BB10 is low), this is BBRY's primary potential consumer base.

BBRY can try to find a niche among the security conscious or those interested in keyboard but note that even they are not mutually exclusive with "powerful device nerds". Many happen to be "powerful device nerds" that prioritize another aspect of their phone and weigh the disadvantages of having inferior specs. Also, these individuals happen to be the ultra minority.

Because of this, BBRY should not overlook specs. Having reasonable specs on devices won't propel BB10 to the top; but, not having reasonable specs will ensure that BB10 continues a downward trajectory.

I don't think they should overlook specs, either: I if BlackBerry issued a series of top-tier powerful devices, I think there would be a short-term uptick in revenue, but they'd better not overproduce or we're back in 2013 again. I would be astonished if a release of a powerful full-slab device resulted in significant (or any, really) market share gains for BB10... as opposed to a short-term "BB10 users upgrading" revenue spike... but I say "BB, release the powerful full slab device, so you can get that short-term revenue uptick, and if you see demand that includes market-share gains (users from other platforms coming to BB10) ramp up production!"

No one would be more surprised (and happier) than me, a "long on blackberry" shareholder, if powerful devices DO draw Android or iOS users to BB10... but from what I know about human nature, there is a lot more to do for BB10 to gain market share than JUST releasing powerful devices, and I guess what's questionable is whether or not some of those "other things" need to happen FIRST before the release of powerful devices will have the desired effect (some of what you mention above re: carrier representation etc.)

[Bbnivende]

I think the most succinct description of those that favour BB devices over Android and iOS is: "no-nonsense communicators".

This is why corporations choose BB10 devices, because BB10 devices are "no nonsense" from many perspectives: from deployment, management, communcations use, employee productivity (perception or reality thereof) etc. It's why I as a consumer use a BB10 device for my PERSONAL communications, and don't really use it at ALL for 'business communications'. My employer doesn't issue me a mobile device and I don't respond to work emails or calls after hours unless it's an emergency, and they're rare in my line of work. I have a great Web browser and some great native apps and some decently-performing Android apps and don't miss apps like SnapChat because, pardon the term, if I'm a "no-nonsense communicator", I think of SnapChat users as "nonsense communicators". I know, huge valuation, gazillions of users, etc. I'm wrong, but there it is.

There is an appeal for BlackBerry devices amongst consumers in the "no-nonsense communicators" group, whether they be communicating for business or personal reasons or a mixture of both: they want an OS optimized for communications (which is best done by the centralized nature of the Hub, rather than a mishmash of notifications and apps and different UX and different processes for each... the Hub simplifies and organizes and is what non-BB10 "no-nonsense communicator" users need to discover about BB10, and they're the ones that are going to migrate to BB10 if it is at all possible after BB releases the Hub on iOS and Android.)



I don't think they should overlook specs, either: I if BlackBerry issued a series of top-tier powerful devices, I think there would be a short-term uptick in revenue, but they'd better not overproduce or we're back in 2013 again. I would be astonished if a release of a powerful full-slab device resulted in significant (or any, really) market share gains for BB10... as opposed to a short-term "BB10 users upgrading" revenue spike... but I say "BB, release the powerful full slab device, so you can get that short-term revenue uptick, and if you see demand that includes market-share gains (users from other platforms coming to BB10) ramp up production!"

No one would be more surprised (and happier) than me, a "long on blackberry" shareholder, if powerful devices DO draw Android or iOS users to BB10... but from what I know about human nature, there is a lot more to do for BB10 to gain market share than JUST releasing powerful devices, and I guess what's questionable is whether or not some of those "other things" need to happen FIRST before the release of powerful devices will have the desired effect (some of what you mention above re: carrier representation etc.)

A better all touch might stem the movement of current Z owners to other platforms. BlackBerry phones need a better camera as well. They should partner with Fuji or Panasonic or Canon.

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

Must really hate that playbook then. How is the Leap a solution for someone who doesn't want to type on glass? I'm confused.

I agree 100% with the second paragraph though.

The Leap solution is for the prepaid market but the device is still too expensive. The customer used his Playbook in conjunction with his computer but I did not ask how. My point here is that there is a potential for sales to seniors that might be interested in an up graded Q5. The slider could also appeal to this group as well.

As an aside, I think that BlackBerry could come up with a good 16:9 design with a Passport keyboard at the bottom ... If they wanted to.

Posted via CB10