[CooperBerry9530]

I thought the ability for talk and web at the same time was only an LTE feature.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[RicanMedic78]

jsc,

if wifi is run through BIS/BES servers, then I just thought of something. Others on here who have defended VZ's resistance to wifi, who are also somewhat knowledgable (twinsX2dad to name a few), have said that wifi is unsecure which is a big reason verizon wont impliment it (until now). However, with what you have said, doesnt that make wifi on a BB just as secure as a 3g connection since it still follows the same security channels?

[cedar]

I thought the ability for talk and web at the same time was only an LTE feature.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

It's a feature of both. The reason LTE would allow voice + data simultaneously is that you would still be using CDMA for voice, but use LTE for data. Any method of getting data other than over CDMA will allow this, including wifi.

[robnhl]

I think in the somewhat near future BIS will become a thing of the past for the more "Consumer" related Blackberry products and carrier services.

And BES will remain for the corporate world. It is almost a no brainer. The average consumer has no idea what BIS is anyway. So if for the millions of consumer Blackberries out there eliminating the middle man (BIS) would most likely improve the performance of the devices from the consumer's view and save RIM a ton of money.

Hopefully when they do that they will also come up with a true IMAP email application. That I would love!!

If RIM eliminates BIS it gives up a major revenue source. I doubt that will happen.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Autosuggestion]

I thought the ability for talk and web at the same time was only an LTE feature.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

GSM devices can do both.

[RicanMedic78]

I thought the ability for talk and web at the same time was only an LTE feature.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

GSM has been doing data&voice together for some time now because of the capability of the GSM radio solely. It makes sense for data&voice if data is over wifi on CDMA since the wifi chipset is indepenant to the CDMA radio technology.

[JRSCCivic98]

You are somewhat correct, Civy, but those NOC's are what give your BB's their "legendary" abilities. It isn't the BB that does PUSH e-mail, it's the NOC. I totally see your point, though. If those NOC's go down, so will your service. But RIM has fail-safes for those incidents, which I'm sure you already know. Hopefully, they won't go the way Danger did -- now that was an epic fail to the max. I do agree that more points of failure increase the odds of an problem occurring, but it's something we have to live with as BB users.

I know the servers are what's responsible for the push capability, I don't think I argued that. What I argued is that "for me" or anyone else looking at "onboard and independant" capabilities, other smartphones tend to be more attractive then a BB. I use Exchange servers for my email addresses I need constant attachment to, so in that case anything that does ActiveSync with Exchange is Push to me... because it is Push email and everything else. The nice part about that is I don't have to pay extra (for BES) to get full mailbox sync, it's available out of the box, YEY!

Also, RIM can go out of business tomorrow and shut down the servers/network, the data currently on your BB will remain... BBs are not like the stupid Sidekicks... I mean, seriously, the battery dies on those phones and it loses onboard data? WTF, is this 1999 and we're talking Palm PDA?

Anyway, for me, I like BBs for some weird reason (don't really know why honestly), but the better fit would be a device that can do ActiveSync and not be run by WinMo, unless it's 7. So, right now it's either the iPhone (no thanks, unless it comes to VZW) or an Android phone. I'm currently looking to see what VZW is bringing with the new HTC Android. If it fails in the performance test like Sprint's did, then I'll probably remain under BB for now. Honestly, I can't seem to find the right device for me... I'm too advanced.

[JRSCCivic98]

jsc,

if wifi is run through BIS/BES servers, then I just thought of something. Others on here who have defended VZ's resistance to wifi, who are also somewhat knowledgable (twinsX2dad to name a few), have said that wifi is unsecure which is a big reason verizon wont impliment it (until now). However, with what you have said, doesnt that make wifi on a BB just as secure as a 3g connection since it still follows the same security channels?

It's not the WIFI that goes through those servers (that's just a connection), but the email and browser or anything else that's RIM provisioned tunnels through that connection (securely presumably) to the RIM NOC/Servers.

The weird thing that I don't quite understand is, why WIFI is provisioned via a service book... but I have a feeling that's just an "enable the feature" kind of thing and nothing more.

But yes, VZW's argument about WIFI being unsafe doesn't really matter. It would be like attaching to an unsecure hotspot with your laptop and then bringing up a VPN connection (with "use gateway on remote network" enabled) for all your browsing/whatever needs. While the connection to the WIFI is unencrypted, the VPN encasulated data from your laptop to the endpoint network is, so inturn, the connection or rather the data you push back and forth through that VPN connection is secure.

[forkup]

I'm taking a serious look at the sholes/tao. The slideout form factor along with the android OS looks very attractive to me. Verizon has failed in the past at getting the best devices but appear to finally be headed in the right direction.

[Mark_Venture]

It was my understanding that WIFI, on non-UMA enabled carriers, doesn't carry BIS/BES data.

So for example, an AT&T Bold who is sitting in a basement, isn't going to get BIS/BES email.

Right?

At least that is how it works on the AT&T Bold we tried here...

My T-Mobile has UMA, so it does work for everything... calls, messages, emails, BB Messenger, etc

[Shadow.xXx]

I know the servers are what's responsible for the push capability, I don't think I argued that. What I argued is that "for me" or anyone else looking at "onboard and independant" capabilities, other smartphones tend to be more attractive then a BB. I use Exchange servers for my email addresses I need constant attachment to, so in that case anything that does ActiveSync with Exchange is Push to me... because it is Push email and everything else. The nice part about that is I don't have to pay extra (for BES) to get full mailbox sync, it's available out of the box, YEY!

Also, RIM can go out of business tomorrow and shut down the servers/network, the data currently on your BB will remain... BBs are not like the stupid Sidekicks... I mean, seriously, the battery dies on those phones and it loses onboard data? WTF, is this 1999 and we're talking Palm PDA?

Anyway, for me, I like BBs for some weird reason (don't really know why honestly), but the better fit would be a device that can do ActiveSync and not be run by WinMo, unless it's 7. So, right now it's either the iPhone (no thanks, unless it comes to VZW) or an Android phone. I'm currently looking to see what VZW is bringing with the new HTC Android. If it fails in the performance test like Sprint's did, then I'll probably remain under BB for now. Honestly, I can't seem to find the right device for me... I'm too advanced.

As I feel the same, I like your last paragraph. It's filled with honesty, and I can respect that.

The new android sets are nice, but are sluggish! They use an old Qualcomm chipset... The Storm is much better in that respect. The HD2 from HTC is supposedly going to be a killer. I would wait and see what goes on with that.

[synwars]

It was my understanding that WIFI, on non-UMA enabled carriers, doesn't carry BIS/BES data.

So for example, an AT&T Bold who is sitting in a basement, isn't going to get BIS/BES email.

Right?

At least that is how it works on the AT&T Bold we tried here...

My T-Mobile has UMA, so it does work for everything... calls, messages, emails, BB Messenger, etc

Nope. A WiFi enabled BB with a BIS data plan allows for data to send and receive BIS related data thru the WiFi connection.

[synwars]

The weird thing that I don't quite understand is, why WIFI is provisioned via a service book... but I have a feeling that's just an "enable the feature" kind of thing and nothing more.

WiFi is provisioned via SB for BIS/BES purposes. Nothing more. Not all WiFi traffic travels through the RIM servers, only that whcih is BIS/BES related (emails, BBM, Internet Browser, etc...) You can use WiFi without having to go through RIM's servers. In fact, I can purposely cripple my BIS connection over WiFi if I wanted to... Ever see those thread titles: "WiFi icon is grey???"...

[JRSCCivic98]

WiFi is provisioned via SB for BIS/BES purposes. Nothing more. Not all WiFi traffic travels through the RIM servers, only that whcih is BIS/BES related (emails, BBM, Internet Browser, etc...) You can use WiFi without having to go through RIM's servers. In fact, I can purposely cripple my BIS connection over WiFi if I wanted to... Ever see those thread titles: "WiFi icon is grey???"...

Agreed... this was where I was going with what I wrote... Just like now, other apps like OperaMini or anything that can do a TCP/SOCKS connection via the IP stack on the phone through the carrier network work like that. For example, having OperaMini working when RIM's got an outage happening.

It's my speculation that WIFI is provisioned via a service book to allow people (like BES admins) to cripple the functionality if needed (i.e. don't let a user use WIFI if you don't want them to have that).