[richardat]

So would I. But there's been no new models and scarce advertising, so it is possible.

I never have gotten terribly involved in specific numbers, but I stand by my assertions months back at launch that the z30 will be among the worst selling flagships from a major (or former major) player ever.

As to pure numbers...normally the season should help a lot...maybe it can help give raw numbers a boost. In terms of marketshare, it won't be pretty, and the holiday season may make that even worse.

Anyways, not much to say. To quote the great Mr. T,prediction: "pain".

[anon(3896606)]

Right now they should do a big U-Turn back to BBOS.

What do most of their customers use? BBOS

What do most of their customers still buy? BBOS

They should stop chasing the elusive BB10 customers, not enough of them on this planet.




#believeinfilm

Users are buying BBOS devices because they are cheaper, that is a fact.
I can't tell the future, but if they release the Z3 at a good price point (which they are going to...) they will have no problems selling BB10 devices.
AND BY THE WAY, maybe you should take your head out of the sand.
BBOS is outdated, clunky, and would be considered non-useable in today's standards, so tell me why they should HALT all BB10 development.
Especially to develop BBOS, which has reached it's prime, and couldn't be pushed further [technologically], at all.

[Thunderbuck]

Right now they should do a big U-Turn back to BBOS.

What do most of their customers use? BBOS

That number has been dropping steadily.

What do most of their customers still buy? BBOS

Not indefinitely.

They should stop chasing the elusive BB10 customers, not enough of them on this planet.

They need to make BB10 as useful and accessible as legacy BBOS was. They make it accessible by making cheaper phones that use it, and the Z3 is a great start. Even if it's an "emerging market" phone, with 10.2.1 (or even 10.3) out of the box it will already run more apps than the cheapie Android handsets. BTW, I think having BB10 AND the ability to run tons of APKs will make these devices extremely attractive.




#believeinfilm[/QUOTE]

[belfastdispatcher]

AND BY THE WAY, maybe you should take your head out of the sand.
BBOS is outdated, clunky, and would be considered non-useable in today's standards, so tell me why they should HALT all BB10 development.
Especially to develop BBOS, which has reached it's prime, and couldn't be pushed further [technologically], at all.

The answer is simple, because NOBODY is buying BB10. Yes, 1 million every 3 months is basically nobody. (1 million does not mean 1 million new users)


I understand some people like it, but not enough buy it.

And by the way, I buy BBOS and not because it's cheaper, but because it works better.


#believeinfilm

[RubberChicken76]

And by the way, I buy BBOS and not because it's cheaper, but because it works better, for my personal needs

#believeinfilm

Fixed that for you

Posted via CB10

[Mr.mister]

Software is a bunch a 0s and 1s arranged in the right order right?


#believeinfilm

Ignorant

Better android than android. The future is black....

[belfastdispatcher]

Ignorant

Better android than android. The future is black....

Ignorants are those that ignore the reality, the reality the today's quarterly results will clearly show.


#believeinfilm

[bspence87]

Ignorants are those that ignore the reality, the reality the today's quarterly results will clearly show.


#believeinfilm

I guess we'll find out.
In the meantime, why don't you keep the negativity to yourself since this a BlackBerry fan site.

[belfastdispatcher]

I guess we'll find out.
In the meantime, why don't you keep the negativity to yourself since this a BlackBerry fan site.

I'm also a BlackBerry fan, Legacy BlackBerry fan, does that give me less rights to be on CrackBerry?


#believeinfilm

[anusha93]

Whats going on.....

Posted via CB10

[cgk]

All updated.

[tchocky77]

.66 million BB10 handsets.


Sent from my iPad using CB Forums

[Whyareallthegoodnamestaken]

I'm betting sales improved since the price slashes of BlackBerry 10 handsets. Only modestly though.

Posted via CB10

[Whyareallthegoodnamestaken]

Belfastdispatcher, you're conflating managerial issues and lack of advertising with the OS itself. BlackBerry 10 is the only growth opportunity. It's not the OS, its the company that's at fault.

BBOS has NO growth potential.

BlackBerry 10 does if the company can sort itself out.

The fact that more BBOS devices are sold than BlackBerry 10 ones has nothing to do with a rejection of BlackBerry 10. It's because people don't know BlackBerry 10 exists or if they do its because there aren't cheap options.

Posted via CB10

[Whyareallthegoodnamestaken]

Oh and as for the OP and being on topic (sorry).

My guess is 1.7m BlackBerry 10 devices.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

Belfastdispatcher, you're conflating managerial issues and lack of advertising with the OS itself. BlackBerry 10 is the only growth opportunity. It's not the OS, its the company that's at fault.

BBOS has NO growth potential.

BlackBerry 10 does if the company can sort itself out.

The fact that more BBOS devices are sold than BlackBerry 10 ones has nothing to do with a rejection of BlackBerry 10. It's because people don't know BlackBerry 10 exists or if they do its because there aren't cheap options.

Posted via CB10

I disagree, BB10 has no potential with consumers (and BB know that) only with the regulated markets but that's where Legacy also excelled.

The "nobody knows BB10 exists" line is getting old now, people know it exists, they just don't have any interest in it. Legacy at least had and still has a niche market, small but sustainable.

If BB10 sells in under a million now it's time to draw the line, it simply cannot continue this way, unless they really are getting out of the consumer market.


#believeinfilm

[JeepBB]

Belfastdispatcher, you're conflating managerial issues and lack of advertising with the OS itself. BlackBerry 10 is the only growth opportunity. It's not the OS, its the company that's at fault.

BBOS has NO growth potential.

BlackBerry 10 does if the company can sort itself out.

The fact that more BBOS devices are sold than BlackBerry 10 ones has nothing to do with a rejection of BlackBerry 10. It's because people don't know BlackBerry 10 exists or if they do its because there aren't cheap options.

We'll all know for sure what the numbers are in a few hours, so this thread'll be done and I'm less worried that I'm about to derail the thread. But, my apologies to cgk anyway.

Unlike Belfast, I don't see BBOS as BB's future. It has many fine features that still appeal to many users, which is why it continues to outsell BB10. BB completely fluffed the design of BB10 by not incorporating many of those much-loved features which is why (IMO) so many legacy users have not made the transition to BB10 and (again IMO) are unlikely to do so in future. BBOS's userbase will continue to fall as handsets break, or owners want to try something new, and their replacement phone is very likely to be anything but BB10. The reasoning behind buying something else (not BB10) is that those legacy buyers "know" that nothing will ever be as good as BBOS, so they might as well buy something that isn't BBOS but at least has added value such as ecosystem or price. I see Apple, Samsung and Microsoft doing well out of the decline of BBOS, but BB with BB10? ... not so much.

Meanwhile, the sales curve for BB10 has climbed (never very high) and is now tailing off. As Belfast said, you can't sustain a consumer phone division when selling under a million units per quarter at typical asp. Unless the Z3 Jakarta is an unparalleled success and rapidly sells in the multi-millions, then BB10's consumer story is done. So, short of that miracle, in the consumer space at least, BB10 isn't the future either.

I keep reading here on CB that nobody out there in the non-fanboy, non-tech-site reading "real world" knows about BB10. That statement always surprises me. Here in the UK, a traditional BB hotspot, BB and its woes of the last year or so have featured prominently in most or all of the paper 'n' ink newspapers that "real people" read. Every one of those stories has contained some reference to BB's new operating system BB10, often in some depth. So I can't believe that anyone in the UK who is even mildly interested doesn't understand that BB10 OS exists. They know that BB10 handsets exist too, they just don't seem to want to buy them in any numbers.

Chen says BB's future is enterprise, software & services. He also says that he can see a time when BB handsets don't figure greatly in their "big picture". Chen ought to know.

Can't wait to hear the results!

[RubberChicken76]

I'm betting sales improved since the price slashes of BlackBerry 10 handsets. Only modestly though.

Posted via CB10

I started thinking that way as well, but I think that this factor and seasonality bumps will be negated by a reduced channel availability and what seems to be less marketing spend.

Guess we'll know soon.

[cgk]

During the fourth quarter, the Company recognized hardware revenue on approximately 1.3 million BlackBerry smartphones compared to approximately 1.9 million BlackBerry smartphones in the previous quarter. During the fourth quarter, approximately 3.4 million BlackBerry smartphones were sold through to end customers, which included shipments made and recognized prior to the fourth quarter and which reduced the Company's inventory in channel. Of the BlackBerry smartphones sold through to end customers in the fourth quarter, approximately 2.3 million were BlackBerry 7 devices.

[imz]

1.1 million BB10 handsets sold.

2.3 million BBOS7

OS7 outselling BB10 by a wide margin.

[RubberChicken76]

Hmm ... they sold through more than I expected.

Still bums me out to see that $1.6 billion long term debt line item though. Necessary evil, but I always liked that BlackBerry powered itself on its own steam financially historically.

[Deckard79]

Hee hee!

"You're Winner!"

Posted via CB10

[RubberChicken76]

Legacy at least had and still has a niche market, small but sustainable.

How is it sustainable? Every quarter, BlackBerry OS devices have dropped in shipments.

[RubberChicken76]

So how many did they sell this quarter?
Why are they padding the number with deferred sales from the previous quarter?

I don't think it's padding, but rather following GAAP accounting principles.

They're simply reporting several metrics in order to provide visibility, per the law.

- They announce shipments to their partners
- They announce what consumers bought
- The report recognizable revenue after provisions for things like inventory in the channel

[belfastdispatcher]

How is it sustainable? Every quarter, BlackBerry OS devices have dropped in shipments.

So did BB10 devices, the difference is BBOS devices are 3 years old and still outselling BB10, imagine what new and improved BBOS hardware could do.


#believeinfilm