04-26-16 01:39 AM
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  1. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Yes the costs for BlackBerry may be marginally higher than other Android phones manufacturers but BlackBerry has ways to reduce overhead etc. For example Chen says that he can now make and sell a mid range slab for $350 (US).

    So yes, no doubt that BlackBerry could have and should have reduced the price to raise their sales.

    https://www.androidpit.com/how-much-...e-a-smartphone
    roleli likes this.
    04-03-16 10:41 PM
  2. idssteve's Avatar
    Oh no, not that "it's just marketing" myth again...
    Please pardon my incredulity but the MYTH attempting to be perpetuated is that marketing does NOT matter. Where has this been proven?

    In what not so parallel universe does marketing NOT matter? ?? If it doesn't matter, why am I perpetually subjected to TV, radio, billboard, print, spam, website popups, etc, etc... ??? Even a lemonade stand has a sign, somewhere.

    If I made lemonade, put it in the refrigerator and never told anyone it's there, how much lemonade would I sell?? I travel quite a bit. If it weren't for CrackBerry, I would have NO clue the Priv, PassPort, Classic, Z30, etc ever existed! And I'm a BlackBerry FAN! Marketing is information. In what perpendicular universe this side of Rod Serling's worst nightmare does marketing NOT matter?

    All the best marketing cannot sell a poor product. BUT, poor marketing cannot sell the best product! NO marketing means you just as well dump out the lemonade.

    Ok, rant off. Flame suit on.
    04-04-16 02:54 AM
  3. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Please pardon my incredulity but the MYTH attempting to be perpetuated is that marketing does NOT matter. Where has this been proven?
    Another member who doesn't read my postings Never said it wouldn't matter. But...
    it's just one of many reasons some people refuse to acknowledge
    Last edited by Maxxxpower; 04-04-16 at 04:20 AM.
    roleli and TgeekB like this.
    04-04-16 04:07 AM
  4. roleli's Avatar
    Yes the costs for BlackBerry may be marginally higher than other Android phones manufacturers but BlackBerry has ways to reduce overhead etc. For example Chen says that he can now make and sell a mid range slab for $350 (US).

    So yes, no doubt that BlackBerry could have and should have reduced the price to raise their sales.(my emphasis)

    https://www.androidpit.com/how-much-...e-a-smartphone
    Thanks for the information provided at that link. This interactive link in the article is even more helpful - Interactive: Apple's and Samsung's Changing Smartphone Recipes - IEEE Spectrum

    John and Blackberry again got it all wrong again when they launched the PRIV in November 2015. There needed to be multiple price points, " aBlackberry Android Device - Privacy for everyone" the slogan. See related post http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...l#post12358986
    04-04-16 06:41 AM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You are dreaming. If it was a BB10 device it would not be on 3 major carriers in the US.

    Posted via BlackBerry PRIV
    We don't actually know the breakdown of the types of phones sold. For all we know, BB10 phones outsold the Priv.
    JulesDB likes this.
    04-04-16 07:15 AM
  6. TGR1's Avatar
    Thanks for the information provided at that link. This interactive link in the article is even more helpful - Interactive: Apple's and Samsung's Changing Smartphone Recipes - IEEE Spectrum

    John and Blackberry again got it all wrong again when they launched the PRIV in November 2015. There needed to be multiple price points, " aBlackberry Android Device - Privacy for everyone" the slogan. See related post http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...l#post12358986
    There is no point offering multiple price points when there aren't enough compelling selling points at any of those price levels. What does a BB at n$ offer that is more attractive than an Android or other model at the similar price range? Sure people here will chime in saying they would buy it but the point is there aren't enough of them at each price tier, certainly not enough for the extra headache and risk to BBRY. Producing and managing multiple models is expensive for a company without an advantageous supply chain (e.g. How much inventory of each?) Really not a good idea in their situation.
    04-04-16 07:19 AM
  7. ohaiguise's Avatar
    A company I know rolled some BB10 devices out during a pilot. Most of the people who got them had old BBOS devices. Comments such as 'I didn't know BlackBerries could do this' are common.
    04-04-16 07:28 AM
  8. Jerry A's Avatar
    Please pardon my incredulity but the MYTH attempting to be perpetuated is that marketing does NOT matter. Where has this been proven?

    In what not so parallel universe does marketing NOT matter? ?? If it doesn't matter, why am I perpetually subjected to TV, radio, billboard, print, spam, website popups, etc, etc... ??? Even a lemonade stand has a sign, somewhere.

    If I made lemonade, put it in the refrigerator and never told anyone it's there, how much lemonade would I sell?? I travel quite a bit. If it weren't for CrackBerry, I would have NO clue the Priv, PassPort, Classic, Z30, etc ever existed! And I'm a BlackBerry FAN! Marketing is information. In what perpendicular universe this side of Rod Serling's worst nightmare does marketing NOT matter?

    All the best marketing cannot sell a poor product. BUT, poor marketing cannot sell the best product! NO marketing means you just as well dump out the lemonade.

    Ok, rant off. Flame suit on.
    Marketing absolutely works. But it's not magic. You have to have a compelling case to sway someone with marketing.

    Look up the marketing term "rational consumer" and then come back.

    If all it took was a solid marketing campaign and consumer wants not mattering then you'd all be using iPhones.
    JeepBB and mornhavon like this.
    04-04-16 08:00 AM
  9. Soulstream's Avatar
    Please pardon my incredulity but the MYTH attempting to be perpetuated is that marketing does NOT matter. Where has this been proven?

    In what not so parallel universe does marketing NOT matter? ?? If it doesn't matter, why am I perpetually subjected to TV, radio, billboard, print, spam, website popups, etc, etc... ??? Even a lemonade stand has a sign, somewhere.

    If I made lemonade, put it in the refrigerator and never told anyone it's there, how much lemonade would I sell?? I travel quite a bit. If it weren't for CrackBerry, I would have NO clue the Priv, PassPort, Classic, Z30, etc ever existed! And I'm a BlackBerry FAN! Marketing is information. In what perpendicular universe this side of Rod Serling's worst nightmare does marketing NOT matter?

    All the best marketing cannot sell a poor product. BUT, poor marketing cannot sell the best product! NO marketing means you just as well dump out the lemonade.

    Ok, rant off. Flame suit on.
    Nobody said that marketing is not important, but marketing alone wouldn't have solved all BB10's problems. How do we know this? Because Microsoft attempted that and failed miserably.

    Microsoft has way deeper pockets than BB (thanks to its diversified product portfolio) and dumped a lot of money into marketing Windows phone 8. And Nokia even had a good reputation in Europe when they adopted Windows phone. Guess what? Windows phone has around 2-3% market share and has done nothing but lose money for Microsoft (sound familiar?).

    And if microsoft's deep pockets barely made a dent in market-share, BB's small budget has no chance whatsoever.
    JeepBB and Elephant_Canyon like this.
    04-04-16 08:04 AM
  10. Blackberry-Prince's Avatar
    Chen is doing on the job training and it shows as far as hardware goes. The Priv numbers are not that bad given it is a niche product any way and the high price. Most of the smartphone market is touchscreen devices and that market is going to be the deciding factor for the hardware division. Chen needs to learn from the Priv mistakes and make sure that the next blackberry android device can at least sell over 1.5 million. In order to achieve this I believe the mid range device has to be a full touchscreen device price at less than $400 and available on all usa carriers at the same time. Also, blackberry's mid range device must have equal or better specs than their android rivals. I would like blackberry to get input on the name of the phone from the general public at that will serve a little as marketing. Get a final list of 4 to 5 names and then make it know to the public that they get to choose the name by voting. If every thing goes well with the mid range touchscreen device, then release a classic form factor android device.

    Posted via CB10
    Good idea. Too bad this suggestion won't reach him


    Posted via CB10
    04-04-16 08:18 AM
  11. roleli's Avatar
    There is no point offering multiple price points when there aren't enough compelling selling points at any of those price levels. What does a BB at n$ offer that is more attractive than an Android or other model at the similar price range? Sure people here will chime in saying they would buy it but the point is there aren't enough of them at each price tier, certainly not enough for the extra headache and risk to BBRY. Producing and managing multiple models is expensive for a company without an advantageous supply chain (e.g. How much inventory of each?) Really not a good idea in their situation.
    Disagree with you. It is how it is implemented
    1. Apple model. Same Phone different internal storage size $100, $200 dollar difference. NOT 3 unqiue devices...
    (Did you look at link I referenced? See here again Multiple Models/Price Points )
    1. Why does someone buy a BLU HTC, Hauwai, ZTE or Alcatel? - Choices

    Again I repeat a stripped down PRIV, no keyboard 16GB, all touch at $400-$499, would have not been that big a risk.
    04-04-16 08:20 AM
  12. Blackberry-Prince's Avatar
    I think they still need more marketing. Promotion for the Priv is too low. They need to advertise as much as they can before September 2016. I don't want BB to ditch hardware.

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-16 08:21 AM
  13. roleli's Avatar
    A company I know rolled some BB10 devices out during a pilot. Most of the people who got them had old BBOS devices. Comments such as 'I didn't know BlackBerries could do this' are common.
    That is what keeps puzzling me. Outside of the app when I show people what I can do with my phone, Hub, Gestures, Blend, Email Management,

    Just sad the blunders made....
    04-04-16 08:23 AM
  14. app_Developer's Avatar
    Disagree with you. It is how it is implemented
    1. Apple model. Same Phone different internal storage size $100, $200 dollar difference. NOT 3 unqiue devices...
    (Did you look at link I referenced? See here again Multiple Models/Price Points )
    That makes sense, but you have to have a product that is successful first. Apple was able to build a whole series of iPhones because the iPhone brand is strong. That started with the iPhone and 3GS. Once that brand was established, then yes you can leverage that. BB has to have an iconic successful model to build from.


    Again I repeat a stripped down PRIV, no keyboard 16GB, all touch at $400-$499, would have not been that big a risk.
    You may be right. I think Chen, though, became convinced that the PKB was a key differentiator for BlackBerry.
    04-04-16 10:15 AM
  15. TGR1's Avatar
    Disagree with you. It is how it is implemented
    1. Apple model. Same Phone different internal storage size $100, $200 dollar difference. NOT 3 unqiue devices...
    (Did you look at link I referenced? See here again Multiple Models/Price Points )
    1. Why does someone buy a BLU HTC, Hauwai, ZTE or Alcatel? - Choices

    Again I repeat a stripped down PRIV, no keyboard 16GB, all touch at $400-$499, would have not been that big a risk.
    1) Considering how many complaints have been and continue to be raised against Apple for the 16GB iPhone I don't agree with you. $400 US or Canadian? $400 US seems expensive for a "stripped down" 16GB phone, depending of course on what you mean by stripped down.

    2) A no-keyboard, no-slider Priv is an entirely different model in terms of design and manufacturing, all which require yet more resources which BBRY likely does not have.

    3) Bringing in other vendors as examples of choice doesn't make sense for justifying expanding BBRY's line. If I want a BLU why would I get another BB?

    4) In your linked post you suggested 4 models that BBRY release. I suspect that not only would BBRY struggle with the increased costs of support and COG, they would struggle with cannibalization occurring more than attracting new buyers.
    04-04-16 10:24 AM
  16. roleli's Avatar
    1) Considering how many complaints have been and continue to be raised against Apple for the 16GB iPhone I don't agree with you. $400 US or Canadian? $400 US seems expensive for a "stripped down" 16GB phone, depending of course on what you mean by stripped down.

    2) A no-keyboard, no-slider Priv is an entirely different model in terms of design and manufacturing, all which require yet more resources which BBRY likely does not have.

    3) Bringing in other vendors as examples of choice doesn't make sense for justifying expanding BBRY's line. If I want a BLU why would I get another BB?

    4) In your linked post you suggested 4 models that BBRY release. I suspect that not only would BBRY struggle with the increased costs of support and COG, they would struggle with cannibalization occurring more than attracting new buyers.
    Points taken.

    • US $400 might be expensive as you say but certainly cheaper than $799
    • Stripped down means just removal of the PKB, models with different internal memory and adjusted case. All internals remain the same.
    • Variations on the internal memory present different price points plus keeps the manufacturing complexities down
    • People make noise but they are still buying them. People buy phones for many reasons a 16GB iphone can't be distinguished from a 64GB
    • Really 3 models. I would choose between 1 & 2 and then do 3 & 4
    04-04-16 10:43 AM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    Please pardon my incredulity but the MYTH attempting to be perpetuated is that marketing does NOT matter. Where has this been proven?

    In what not so parallel universe does marketing NOT matter? ?? If it doesn't matter, why am I perpetually subjected to TV, radio, billboard, print, spam, website popups, etc, etc... ??? Even a lemonade stand has a sign, somewhere.

    If I made lemonade, put it in the refrigerator and never told anyone it's there, how much lemonade would I sell?? I travel quite a bit. If it weren't for CrackBerry, I would have NO clue the Priv, PassPort, Classic, Z30, etc ever existed! And I'm a BlackBerry FAN! Marketing is information. In what perpendicular universe this side of Rod Serling's worst nightmare does marketing NOT matter?

    All the best marketing cannot sell a poor product. BUT, poor marketing cannot sell the best product! NO marketing means you just as well dump out the lemonade.

    Ok, rant off. Flame suit on.
    I don't think it's that it doesn't matter, but it's also not the main or only reason. That's my perception anyways.
    04-04-16 11:09 AM
  18. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    The security updates come from Google. BlackBerry just passes them on. Cut and paste = copy
    This is totally false... BlackBerry adds their own security patches which also includes Google security patches.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2876
    app_Developer likes this.
    04-04-16 11:12 AM
  19. Fabio Espinal's Avatar
    Wishful thinking. If we wanted android, we would have left a long time ago.
    Chen is killing hardware by copying the competitor's product and going down with it. No backbone, no vision.
    I agree!

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-16 11:29 AM
  20. Ethereo's Avatar

    You may be right. I think Chen, though, became convinced that the PKB was a key differentiator for BlackBerry.
    And that was a big mistake, he didnt even target all the market (full touch phones), if PKB is so important for some people, they already had a BB, because nobody else produce that kind of phones, I dont know what they expected with the Priv, Android users go for Specs and Brand at high price, and the Priv had nothing to offer but a PKB, for real it is like they even dont run focus groups to make some research about their potential customers.
    roleli and eyesopen1111 like this.
    04-04-16 01:08 PM
  21. early2bed's Avatar
    ... it is like they even dont run focus groups to make some research about their potential customers.
    So if they run a focus group and lay out a bunch of slab phone in a model retail store from Apple, HTC, Samsung, etc. along with a BlackBerry slab phone, what percentage would you expect to choose BlackBerry? How much advertising do you think it would take to change that significantly? If you were standing there making a pitch for the BlackBerry, how much would you be able to change it?
    Last edited by early2bed; 04-04-16 at 01:30 PM.
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-04-16 01:15 PM
  22. kvndoom's Avatar
    Oh no, not that "it's just marketing" myth again...
    "High end full touch BB10" is so 2015.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    04-04-16 01:31 PM
  23. Ethereo's Avatar
    So if they run a focus group and lay out a bunch of slab phone in a model retail store from Apple, HTC, Samsung, etc. along with a BlackBerry slab phone, what percentage would you expect to choose BlackBerry? How much advertising do you think it would take to change that significantly? If you were standing there making a pitch for the BlackBerry, how much would you be able to change it?
    If they see that they cant offer something valuable to the market, then stop making mistakes like they have done all these years, and just dont produce more smartphones, or segment them for another variable, but for a PKB? give me a break.
    eyesopen1111 likes this.
    04-04-16 01:39 PM
  24. Bbnivende's Avatar
    So if they run a focus group and lay out a bunch of slab phone in a model retail store from Apple, HTC, Samsung, etc. along with a BlackBerry slab phone, what percentage would you expect to choose BlackBerry? How much advertising do you think it would take to change that significantly? If you were standing there making a pitch for the BlackBerry, how much would you be able to change it?
    If it had the looks and feel of a Passport SE ..perhaps some. If they turned on the device and liked the look and graphics design perhaps more. If the phone had some better features like the removable battery, on board ram and a provided SD card maybe more. Certainly Samsung has a known product image but BlackBerry’s negative image is primarily ascribed to their old phones with a PKB.
    04-04-16 01:45 PM
  25. kvndoom's Avatar
    If it had the looks and feel of a Passport SE ..perhaps some. If they turned on the device and liked the look and graphics design perhaps more. If the phone had some better features like the removable battery, on board ram and a provided SD card maybe more. Certainly Samsung has a known product image but BlackBerry’s negative image is primarily ascribed to their old phones with a PKB.
    Any ground you gained would be lost as soon as the opened BlackBerry World. The ecosystem is at least as important as the physical hardware in these modern times. Perhaps more important.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    MikeX74 and JeepBB like this.
    04-04-16 02:00 PM
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