04-26-16 01:39 AM
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  1. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Strong statement
    Fair point. They could have very calculatedly tested the water with smaller volumes of lower priced models(using an iPhone strategy, same phone different storage, different price). I strongly believe that at a better price points with 2/3 Android devices they would have stood a better chance.

    I for one would not be buying the PRIV at the $799 price.

    If you accept your were not going sell why bother? Just make a call. If you don't believe don't bother
    Think of a Hollywood movie set. From a distance, it looks real. Up close, you're just hoping to keep up impressions. Keep losses to a minimum and keep the press talking about the company. Think of hardware as small price to pay to keep the company relevant with software buyers in the enterprise field and for testing consumer software ideas that can generate monthly revenues on a continual recurring basis.

    JC is looking to create Sybase turnaround story with a high margin and high volume. This is like Sybase v2.0. How long did Sybase take first time, like 10-15 years?

    Posted via CB10
    04-01-16 08:41 PM
  2. sorinv's Avatar
    good to know... i was wondering how someone could call an update a copycat... we are all weird, but that was at a whole new level of weirdness hahaha... all good, have a nice day!
    Weird is that you do not seem to understand the major difference between developing your own OS and your own bug fixes, and adopting somebody else's OS, getting security fixes from Google, without finding security fixes of your own, and passing them on to your customer after simple verification.
    That is copying instead of creating. In other fields, it is the equivalent of opening a franchise. Not very creative.
    04-01-16 09:45 PM
  3. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Weird is that you do not seem to understand the major difference between developing your own OS and your own bug fixes, and adopting somebody else's OS, getting security fixes from Google, without finding security fixes of your own, and passing them on to your customer after simple verification.
    That is copying instead of creating. In other fields, it is the equivalent of opening a franchise. Not very creative.
    No doubt that Android is not original. BB10 was original. The PRIV ,so far, has been applying the Android security patches on a timely basis. If BlackBerry quits making Android phones they will likely have to keep up with new security patches for their version of the Android OS
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 04-01-16 at 10:31 PM.
    04-01-16 10:21 PM
  4. aha's Avatar
    Even if Priv sells the same amount every quarter instead of following the normal declining pattern, it's going to be 0.6x4=2.4 m a year. Still less than required 3m a year target.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    04-01-16 10:28 PM
  5. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Really? Please check the number of phones sold in December 2014.
    There has been a steady and significant drop in the number of phones sold quarter on quarter, and you are assuming all phones sold this quarter were only Priv's. That obviously is wrong.
    Now you can all see that the number of BlackBerry App downloads in Google store actually reflects the real total number of Priv's sold last quarter and this quarter. Pathetic!
    I believe Chen said something like "the bulk of it" were Privs.
    Probably here : BNN - Watch TV Online | BlackBerry CEO Chen unhappy with Priv phone performance
    04-02-16 03:55 AM
  6. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Even if Priv sells the same amount every quarter instead of following the normal declining pattern, it's going to be 0.6x4=2.4 m a year. Still less than required 3m a year target.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    That's one high-range device alone (ok, add a pinch of BB10 refresh cycle devices, that should remain low and similar for this period). Now add the mysterious mid-range one and they might very well hit the bar.
    04-02-16 03:57 AM
  7. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Further details:
    - user base down to 23 mio (from 25 mio in Q3FY16 and 37 mio Q4FY15)
    - 0.7 million smartphones sold through to end customers (down from 0.9 mio in Q3FY16 and 1.6 mio in Q4FY15)

    source: Associated Documents
    04-02-16 03:58 AM
  8. howarmat's Avatar
    Further details:
    - user base down to 23 mio (from 25 mio in Q3FY16 and 37 mio Q4FY15)
    - 0.7 million smartphones sold through to end customers (down from 0.9 mio in Q3FY16 and 1.6 mio in Q4FY15)

    source: Associated Documents
    thanks i was just going to look for that data
    04-02-16 05:51 AM
  9. vladi's Avatar
    How in the hell do you have to sell 3 million units to break even? Who is doing the math here and who is doing the business? I don't get it.

    Either their department is over bloated by people that very little or nothing or their hardware marketing budget is off the charts which I'm sure is not the case. I'm also sure stellar customer service is out of question as well so where in the hell that money from sales goes?
    04-02-16 07:49 AM
  10. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    How in the hell do you have to sell 3 million units to break even? Who is doing the math here and who is doing the business?
    Someone who actually has an understanding of all the costs involved. Which is not you, obviously.
    04-02-16 08:09 AM
  11. vladi's Avatar
    Someone who actually has an understanding of all the costs involved. Which is not you, obviously.
    So far they have been doing a fantastic job. For a company that can barely sell 3 million units annually they come up with the plan to break even after 3 million units.
    04-02-16 08:50 AM
  12. donnation's Avatar
    So far they have been doing a fantastic job. For a company that can barely sell 3 million units annually they come up with the plan to break even after 3 million units.
    When you slash more than half the work force it becomes a little easier to meet a target goal. Let's not pretend here that they have done this simply by software and acquisitions. They have slashed a ton of jobs and closed down offices all over the world. When that happens its a little more feasible to turn a profit when there is less overhead. Not saying they haven't done an admirable job, but Chen has wiped out a lot of Blackberry in order to make that goal attainable.
    04-02-16 09:55 AM
  13. RyanGermann's Avatar
    "we"? How many people do you think are included in your "we"

    QWERTY-Slider and monthly security updates? Doesn't look like a copycat to me.
    I'll concede that speculation and rhetoric are as valid as anyone else's.

    The move to Android is a failure by anyone's measure. Calling BB10 a failure by anyone's measure is also legitimate, but it doesn't answer what they could have done to save the devices business... because it's too late and there's nothing more to be done. They've played every trump card at exactly the wrong time, and frankly what they thought were trump cards in their IP hand were just jokers. Like the executive.

    Apple / iOS is going to steal BlackBerry's "security" crown very shortly if not by all rights it's already stolen, and continue to trump them in usability and app availability and device quality and profitability. If Apple decides to offer MDM server software, BlackBerry has no chance even in that space. I'm surprised Apple is "allowing" BlackBerry to have whatever modest success they ARE having.

    Bye bye BlackBerry.

    Object lesson here: be proud of yourself and stick to your guns and you have a better chance of success than if you try to be something you're not.

    BlackBerry has spent the last 4 years trying to be something they're not, and the price of that failure is irrelevance.

    I'm not surprised, and what makes me the most alarmed is that I'm not really terribly upset. Justice will be served. Too bad the hard working and dedicated employees are going to be the ones to pay for it.
    Akuji_ism likes this.
    04-02-16 02:23 PM
  14. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I'll concede that speculation and rhetoric are as valid as anyone else's.

    The move to Android is a failure by anyone's measure. Calling BB10 a failure by anyone's measure is also legitimate, but it doesn't answer what they could have done to save the devices business... because it's too late and there's nothing more to be done. They've played every trump card at exactly the wrong time, and frankly what they thought were trump cards in their IP hand were just jokers. Like the executive.

    Apple / iOS is going to steal BlackBerry's "security" crown very shortly if not by all rights it's already stolen, and continue to trump them in usability and app availability and device quality and profitability. If Apple decides to offer MDM server software, BlackBerry has no chance even in that space. I'm surprised Apple is "allowing" BlackBerry to have whatever modest success they ARE having.

    Bye bye BlackBerry.

    Object lesson here: be proud of yourself and stick to your guns and you have a better chance of success than if you try to be something you're not.

    BlackBerry has spent the last 4 years trying to be something they're not, and the price of that failure is irrelevance.

    I'm not surprised, and what makes me the most alarmed is that I'm not really terribly upset. Justice will be served. Too bad the hard working and dedicated employees are going to be the ones to pay for it.
    What are they? What would you have them be or liked them to have been?

    Posted via CB10
    04-02-16 05:06 PM
  15. ChainPunch's Avatar
    Chen is doing on the job training and it shows as far as hardware goes. The Priv numbers are not that bad given it is a niche product any way and the high price. Most of the smartphone market is touchscreen devices and that market is going to be the deciding factor for the hardware division. Chen needs to learn from the Priv mistakes and make sure that the next blackberry android device can at least sell over 1.5 million. In order to achieve this I believe the mid range device has to be a full touchscreen device price at less than $400 and available on all usa carriers at the same time. Also, blackberry's mid range device must have equal or better specs than their android rivals. I would like blackberry to get input on the name of the phone from the general public at that will serve a little as marketing. Get a final list of 4 to 5 names and then make it know to the public that they get to choose the name by voting. If every thing goes well with the mid range touchscreen device, then release a classic form factor android device.

    Posted via CB10
    roleli and Blackberry-Prince like this.
    04-02-16 07:03 PM
  16. gallopiton's Avatar
    please, tell me more dr OS... it always amazes me how people react on internet... anyway, have a great weekend!

    Weird is that you do not seem to understand the major difference between developing your own OS and your own bug fixes, and adopting somebody else's OS, getting security fixes from Google, without finding security fixes of your own, and passing them on to your customer after simple verification.
    That is copying instead of creating. In other fields, it is the equivalent of opening a franchise. Not very creative.
    04-02-16 07:41 PM
  17. thurask's Avatar
    Weird is that you do not seem to understand the major difference between developing your own OS and your own bug fixes, and adopting somebody else's OS, getting security fixes from Google, without finding security fixes of your own, and passing them on to your customer after simple verification.
    That is copying instead of creating. In other fields, it is the equivalent of opening a franchise. Not very creative.
    Not creative, but a hell of a lot easier than shouldering the entire OS responsibility with the five or six employees left at BB.
    04-02-16 07:49 PM
  18. dangerousfen's Avatar
    So, he has stated that his hardware target is 3 M/year. It's pretty clear he's not going to sell that many Privs, even allowing for the staggered launch. To have even a chance at hitting that target, he has to launch another device. What we don't know is whether he thinks it's worth trying to do.
    I'm sorry Ubizmo, but if it's not advertised any where then the masses don't even know about it. Here in the UK there has been not one TV advert, it's not in any papers or magazines and the carriers hide it away in the store room.

    This is no way to sell a devce. You have to tell the world that it even exists. Same old story though isn't it.

    "Z30 STA100-2 UK" 10.3.2.2836 Get's a Ten from Fen.
    04-02-16 07:58 PM
  19. app_Developer's Avatar
    Also, blackberry's mid range device must have equal or better specs than their android rivals.
    By what magic will BlackBerry be able to sell a mid price device with the same or better specs than their rivals, who have massive economies of scale and buying power?
    04-02-16 08:17 PM
  20. Zedd88's Avatar
    I'm sorry Ubizmo, but if it's not advertised any where then the masses don't even know about it. Here in the UK there has been not one TV advert, it's not in any papers or magazines and the carriers hide it away in the store room.

    This is no way to sell a devce. You have to tell the world that it even exists. Same old story though isn't it.

    "Z30 STA100-2 UK" 10.3.2.2836 Get's a Ten from Fen.
    I agree. And it doesn't even have to be advertised on TV. Just having a demo unit on the store for the potential buyers to see it would go a long way. The importance of the demo unit cannot be overlooked. I had to search far and wide to be able to find a working Priv on display. And when I did find it, there was no looping videos that demo what the unit can do. The Hub was there but with no email account on the device, how could one who has no knowlege of BB10 Hub know what it is. Other phones of other OEMs have a looping video on the demo phone that shows what it can do.
    04-02-16 09:07 PM
  21. RadoR6's Avatar
    down from 700 K last quarter. ASP the same as Q3FY16

    UPDATES:
    - Chens No 1 focus is now software & services
    - If hardware becomes a burden, BB will get out of devices (as stated multiple times before)
    - Break even of hardware now down to 3 mio devices a year if asp stays as it is

    Infos from the call regarding BB10 (from the chat, written by Bla1ze):
    - 10.3.3 might be as late as june.
    - 10.3.4 FY 2018



    Further details:
    - user base down to 23 mio (from 25 mio in Q3FY16 and 37 mio Q4FY15)
    - 0.7 million smartphones sold through to end customers (down from 0.9 mio in Q3FY16 and 1.6 mio in Q4FY15)

    source: Associated Documents

    Don't forget the Q3 and higher sales got a lot to do with Christmas time. After that -January/February a lot of businesses got weak sales.
    04-03-16 05:19 AM
  22. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    a) Q4FY16 numbers include Christmas sales as Q3FY16 already ended November, 28 2015
    b) Blackberry is a company whose main audience (or should I say whose only audience left?) are companys. They don't care much about christmas.
    04-03-16 05:45 AM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    LMAO....why does everyone keep thinking hardware matters other than what can be done profitably? The end game has always been about profit and positive cash flow. BlackBerry as company was technically DOA 2 1/2 years ago. Obviously, the people that matter, the owners, are satisfied with current direction of company. They're looking at history of IBM and Sybase as to future of BlackBerry. Thank goodness for any hardware product left. If BlackBerry focused on hardware the way you BB10 diehards suggest, the company would have been dead 2 years ago with the Z30 as their last phone in grand Palm style. You all can't see or accept that BlackBerry was on real life support and is like any survivor that suffered irreversible damage from years of poor decisions. As BlackBerry SLOWLY recovers, it will not be the company it was in terms of former self. That's what almost killed BlackBerry in the first place. The company lost the hardware opportunity by not going Android in 2008-2009. BB10 should have never been created as it has NEVER generated any type of recurring income stream. NOT a dollar $1.00 !!! That is why previous management didn't push to change. Developing BB10 was about dragging out people keeping BIS revenues coming in monthly for 3-5 more years until a new product was found to replace those revenues. The rapid adoption of IOS/Android coupled with higher cost development and lower adoption of BB10 is where previous management derailed. Software has always been the answer to BIS as that is all BIS and BES have ever been is software. Hardware was only created since nothing existed at time. Founders of BlackBerry knew this and cashed when they did because they new this...Mike and Jim are still laughing their butts off at the loyalists that still haven't figured this out. They suckered you....take a step back from the situation and look at it from a safe distance.... I've accepted it now. I'm glad there are still BlackBerry phones, but I see the Priv and other android phones as something that should have been offered to me years ago. I cheer for BlackBerry to survive because the company didn't screw me, Mike, Jim and Thors did.

    Posted via CB10
    04-03-16 06:29 AM
  24. pdizzle27's Avatar
    The problem, in my opinion, was the high markup of the PRIV, especially compared to competitors, and the inferior build quality of Blackberry phones.
    Lack of marketing, just like the other phones. Without marketing, the product doesn't matter.
    04-03-16 09:06 AM
  25. pdizzle27's Avatar
    LMAO....why does everyone keep thinking hardware matters other than what can be done profitably? The end game has always been about profit and positive cash flow. BlackBerry as company was technically DOA 2 1/2 years ago. Obviously, the people that matter, the owners, are satisfied with current direction of company. They're looking at history of IBM and Sybase as to future of BlackBerry. Thank goodness for any hardware product left. If BlackBerry focused on hardware the way you BB10 diehards suggest, the company would have been dead 2 years ago with the Z30 as their last phone in grand Palm style. You all can't see or accept that BlackBerry was on real life support and is like any survivor that suffered irreversible damage from years of poor decisions. As BlackBerry SLOWLY recovers, it will not be the company it was in terms of former self. That's what almost killed BlackBerry in the first place. The company lost the hardware opportunity by not going Android in 2008-2009. BB10 should have never been created as it has NEVER generated any type of recurring income stream. NOT a dollar $1.00 !!! That is why previous management didn't push to change. Developing BB10 was about dragging out people keeping BIS revenues coming in monthly for 3-5 more years until a new product was found to replace those revenues. The rapid adoption of IOS/Android coupled with higher cost development and lower adoption of BB10 is where previous management derailed. Software has always been the answer to BIS as that is all BIS and BES have ever been is software. Hardware was only created since nothing existed at time. Founders of BlackBerry knew this and cashed when they did because they new this...Mike and Jim are still laughing their butts off at the loyalists that still haven't figured this out. They suckered you....take a step back from the situation and look at it from a safe distance.... I've accepted it now. I'm glad there are still BlackBerry phones, but I see the Priv and other android phones as something that should have been offered to me years ago. I cheer for BlackBerry to survive because the company didn't screw me, Mike, Jim and Thors did.

    Posted via CB10
    Without marketing, it wouldn't matter which year they switched to Android. Their biggest problem is that they don't know how to sell. Same thing will happen when they go all software.
    bh7171 likes this.
    04-03-16 09:10 AM
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