06-27-16 12:22 PM
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  1. Sairos's Avatar
    I think BlackBerry would be willing to stay with devices even with moderate losses (but only moderate).
    It would make sense because of several reasons but Chen said over and over that if he didn't break even and become profitable, he'll exit the hardware business.. He confirmed this lately in the annual meeting with the deadline being the current fiscal year, March/2017..

    They're being pressured by everyone to pull the plug on the Hardware business and continue reshaping the company in software.. Some Analysts out there are calling Chen delusional because he thinks he can turn the hardware business into a profitable one.. All this adds up to why he'll exit if not profitable.
    TgeekB likes this.
    06-23-16 03:26 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    It would make sense because of several reasons but Chen said over and over that if he didn't break even and become profitable, he'll exit the hardware business.. He confirmed this lately in the annual meeting with the deadline being the current fiscal year, March/2017..

    They're being pressured by everyone to pull the plug on the Hardware business and continue reshaping the company in software.. Some Analysts out there are calling Chen delusional because he thinks he can turn the hardware business into a profitable one.. All this adds up to why he'll exit if not profitable.
    Yes, but he will include the increased profit from software that result from E2E deals in that calculation.
    anon(9353145) likes this.
    06-23-16 04:14 PM
  3. Sairos's Avatar
    Yes, but he will include the increased profit from software that result from E2E deals in that calculation.
    Yes correct, also he stressed that BlackBerry doesn't make the phones now, they're operating more like a "designer house".. which is the right move.. 3 mil devices or even less to become profitable, according to Chen.. I think it can be achieved if they found the right mix between Specs & Pricing, with the addition of strong marketing.
    BeautyEh likes this.
    06-23-16 04:32 PM
  4. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Yes, but he will include the increased profit from software that result from E2E deals in that calculation.
    Yes, my ears definitely perked on that, he keeps moving the goalposts, lol. It's no longer 3 million but less if you count in software / ip. But he won't say how much less. Obviously he sees value in keeping in handsets (so to speak) for the short term at least. Makes me wonder how he blundered so badly on pricing the Priv in the first place. Maybe Louks was a real smooth talker, ha.
    06-23-16 04:41 PM
  5. Sairos's Avatar
    Yes, my ears definitely perked on that, he keeps moving the goalposts, lol. It's no longer 3 million but less if you count in software / ip. But he won't say how much less. Obviously he sees value in keeping in handsets (so to speak) for the short term at least. Makes me wonder how he blundered so badly on pricing the Priv in the first place. Maybe Louks was a real smooth talker, ha.
    Yeah he is trying to do everything to stay in Hardware.. So he is being flexible.. He even pushed the deadline a little compared to the first time he said he'll exit the hardware..

    I think the pricing wasn't his responsability only, but the thing about CEOs is that they always get blamed for the teamwork of the whole company.. But Anyway Chen is bad for hardware, good for software.. Oh and Ron Louks wasn't a smooth talker enough to prevent himself from getting fired :P
    06-23-16 04:49 PM
  6. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Yeah he is trying to do everything to stay in Hardware.. So he is being flexible.. He even pushed the deadline a little compared to the first time he said he'll exit the hardware..

    I think the pricing wasn't his responsability only, but the thing about CEOs is that they always get blamed for the teamwork of the whole company.. But Anyway Chen is bad for hardware, good for software.. Oh and Ron Louks wasn't a smooth talker enough to prevent himself from getting fired :P
    That's why I said he WAS a real smooth talker, ha. Chen definitely is more comfortable with software, but I think he's learning more and more on the hardware end. It's painful, but he seems to be getting it with his paid on the job training. I think 2 years ago if anyone had said that BlackBerry's unit sales would sink this low everyone would have said they're done with handsets for sure.

    But here we are, and frankly I'm as surprised as anyone that he keeps chugging along trying to find a way to make it work. I think if he was using it purely as a delaying tactic he would have cut the cord already, just my sense.
    Sairos likes this.
    06-23-16 04:57 PM
  7. Sairos's Avatar
    That's why I said he WAS a real smooth talker, ha. Chen definitely is more comfortable with software, but I think he's learning more and more on the hardware end. It's painful, but he seems to be getting it with his paid on the job training. I think 2 years ago if anyone had said that BlackBerry's unit sales would sink this low everyone would have said they're done with handsets for sure.

    But here we are, and frankly I'm as surprised as anyone that he keeps chugging along trying to find a way to make it work. I think if he was using it purely as a delaying tactic he would have cut the cord already, just my sense.
    Yeah after a few years of hardware, I'm sure he learned a thing or two.. You're right he genuinely thinks it can be done.. Honestly I believe its realistic and achievable.. To sell 3 million devices is not that hard but they're the ones making it hard for themselves by their $700 price tag and no marketing.. I'm being a broken record but if the Priv was released for $500 or something.. Or at least a quick reaction to what happened, its not selling anyway so cut its price to $500 immediately.. It took too much time to get there.. and the hype was over..

    The proper way to do the comeback would've been releasing a mid-range android device to bring back the BlackBerry brand into the game then sustain the position with a top range phone one year later. Not the other way around, like they're doing it now.
    anon(9353145) likes this.
    06-23-16 05:47 PM
  8. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Yeah after a few years of hardware, I'm sure he learned a thing or two.. You're right he genuinely thinks it can be done.. Honestly I believe its realistic and achievable.. To sell 3 million devices is not that hard but they're the ones making it hard for themselves by their $700 price tag and no marketing.. I'm being a broken record but if the Priv was released for $500 or something.. Or at least a quick reaction to what happened, its not selling anyway so cut its price to $500 immediately.. It took too much time to get there.. and the hype was over..

    The proper way to do the comeback would've been releasing a mid-range android device to bring back the BlackBerry brand into the game then sustain the position with a top range phone one year later. Not the other way around, like they're doing it now.
    I COMPLETELY agree with what you said. As soon as I saw the price on the Priv, my jaw hit the floor, lol. Bearing in mind that they were doing yet another Pivot (from BB10 to Android, just like BBOS to BB10), I'd assumed they would have learned from the past. I can only think Chen was so focused on software he didn't dedicate enough attention to hardware, other than inventory (and I'm being generous).

    Priv should have been priced as a Loss Leader, take a hit on the margins to entice your base to make the switch, and maybe lure in some new customers who are nostalgic for a pkb and surprise them with the added touch capacitive functionality. AND bear in mind that with the sudden pivot to Android, it's going to take some time to build up the software functionality to a level your base expects. If they have to pay a premium for the device, they're not going to be happy with bugs, lol.

    Anyway, water under the bridge at this point. Hopefully they're finally learned that lesson because when BlackBerry does a good thing, they do it really well so I hope they can tough it out.
    Sairos, BeautyEh and Gallofa like this.
    06-23-16 05:58 PM
  9. anon(3732391)'s Avatar
    BlackBerry had it coming. They've had it coming for as long as I can remember.

    I'd explain why, but not only is it obvious... myself and every other realist on CrackBerry has already done so, over and over.

    It's like Groundhog Day. Only with Chen in the place of Bill Murray, and no entertainment value whatsoever.

    Posted via CB10
    I find it amazing that people have the audacity to tell others 'how it is' when, all it is... is an OPINION!
    Every other realist???
    I'm as real as they get my friend and while it may be "IN YOUR OPINION" how you think it is.....
    until Chen actually says it's over...It ain't over till it's over! (in my opinion, of course.)
    Sairos likes this.
    06-23-16 06:25 PM
  10. anon(3732391)'s Avatar
    Let's also keep in mind that Blackberry has started a new advertising campaign which began a week or so ago at a big sports event.
    No doubt there will be more to follow.
    It doesn't matter how 'Old" (i get a real kick out of that) the Passport is. The idea behind the ads are to re familiarize the public with Blackberry because the general public thinks blackberry died years ago and these ads may get people interested in Blackberry again.
    That will give Chen a much needed view and better idea where he goes from there.

    It ain't over till it's over!
    Gebo likes this.
    06-23-16 06:39 PM
  11. Elite1's Avatar
    Fixed thread title typo.
    06-23-16 06:40 PM
  12. roleli's Avatar
    For a damaged brand a US$699 Android phone that did not appeal to many loyal, worst non-loyal customers was not going to cut it. There was no incentive for those on the fence to give BlackBerry another chance.

    The way the PRIV sales have gone, if it was possible a refreshed Z30 with BB10 might have done better. The Z10, Z30 and possible Z3 users looking an upgrade might have jumped for it.
    Last edited by roleli; 06-23-16 at 07:13 PM.
    06-23-16 06:43 PM
  13. xtremeled's Avatar
    And yet, There will be countless threads after today talking about updates to OS10, how BB can be turned around, how BB10 is the best, how the Priv is an awesome device, blah,blah,blah,blah.BB needs to man up and admit that they have failed miserably in the device field. Pack up and move on!!!
    andy957 likes this.
    06-23-16 07:55 PM
  14. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    And yet, There will be countless threads after today talking about updates to OS10, how BB can be turned around, how BB10 is the best, how the Priv is an awesome device, blah,blah,blah,blah.BB needs to man up and admit that they have failed miserably in the device field. Pack up and move on!!!
    But then what would we talk about? And where would you go next if that happened? =)
    Sairos, anon(3732391) and web99 like this.
    06-23-16 08:07 PM
  15. Sairos's Avatar
    But then what would we talk about? And where would you go next if that happened? =)
    Haha Yeah exactly.. At least we've something to talk about.. There is a lot of action to discuss after today.. Actually I'm going to make a thread to mention a few important things Chen said
    06-23-16 08:16 PM
  16. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Haha Yeah exactly.. At least we've something to talk about.. There is a lot of action to discuss after today.. Actually I'm going to make a thread to mention a few important things Chen said
    Go for it!
    06-23-16 08:22 PM
  17. Deckard79's Avatar
    I find it amazing that people have the audacity to tell others 'how it is' when, all it is... is an OPINION!
    Every other realist???
    I'm as real as they get my friend and while it may be "IN YOUR OPINION" how you think it is.....
    until Chen actually says it's over...It ain't over till it's over! (in my opinion, of course.)
    Who's saying it's over?

    I'm simply stating, re: yesterday's quarterly figures, that BlackBerry had it coming. And they sure as hell did, clear as day!

    That's not conjecture - we have hindsight, and we have numbers.

    These results don't lie (despite BlackBerry's accounts team working night and day to muddy them).

    Posted via CB10
    TgeekB, DrBoomBotz and kirson like this.
    06-23-16 11:23 PM
  18. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Further details:

    Total smartphone user base down to 20 mio (from 23 mio in Q4FY16 and 33 mio in Q1 FY16)
    600K smartphones sold through, down from 700K in Q4 FY16 and 1.3 mio in Q1 FY16

    http://uk.blackberry.com/content/dam...nformation.pdf
    Last edited by Maxxxpower; 06-24-16 at 12:06 AM.
    06-23-16 11:38 PM
  19. anon(3732391)'s Avatar
    Sorry guys didn't mean to bring you down with my positive attitude and outlook.

    MY BAD!!
    06-24-16 08:15 AM
  20. Deckard79's Avatar
    Sorry guys didn't mean to bring you down with my positive attitude and outlook.

    MY BAD!!
    We all want this to turn around as much as you do. It's just SO FRUSTRATING to see them making such utterly blatant, inexcusable mistakes over and over again.

    The moment we had the 'Priv' naming and pricing, the response here was overwhelming dismay and utter disbelief. Some actually, genuinely thought it was a joke.

    That's... so bad. Why can't they sort that out? Why can't they ask folk like us? What is it, pride? Being stuck in the past, and not letting go? Or total disinterest in their user base?

    Posted via CB10
    Maxxxpower, kirson, JeepBB and 2 others like this.
    06-24-16 10:20 AM
  21. kirson's Avatar
    Sorry guys didn't mean to bring you down with my positive attitude and outlook.

    MY BAD!!
    No need to apologize. John Chen has been doing the same thing for years now. Unfortunately, other than a positive attitude, he has accomplished little else. Well, I take that back - he's accomplished little else that is positive.
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-24-16 10:22 AM
  22. banjoguy's Avatar
    There is a difference between actual money and accounting revenue. That said, imparements are a normal practice....but the write down of goodwill means there is no expectation of earning. In other words, the going concern principle. So BB has left the hardware building. The question now is, will the Passport drop in price further or should one wait for the July BB wanna be phone.
    06-24-16 10:27 AM
  23. Omonja's Avatar
    It's getting worse every quarter. Very Sad.
    06-24-16 12:48 PM
  24. curves2000's Avatar
    The most shocking thing to me was just how unsuccessful the Priv has been for an Android phone.

    Say what you want about BlackBerry and their decision to not market heavy or price the Priv where it was.

    500k a quarter in device sales is awful. The majority of these devices are still fleet sales of Classic, Leap and maybe a bit of Passport. The Priv was designed to help address a major consumer market while still getting some decent traction from the corporate users.

    1 mil a quarter in Priv sales would have been an extreme success for BlackBerry but very sad for a flagship device from any Android or iOS manufacturer. The fact that we are only @ 50% of that for the entire line up of devices is quite interesting no matter what.

    Hopefully a better quarter next time

    Posted via CB10
    06-24-16 07:59 PM
  25. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    1 mil a quarter in Priv sales would have been an extreme success for BlackBerry but very sad for a flagship device from any Android or iOS manufacturer. The fact that we are only @ 50% of that for the entire line up of devices is quite interesting no matter what.

    Hopefully a better quarter next time
    I wouldn't bet on it. There is absolutely no reason to think that sales will improve - normally what improves sales is the launch of a new device, and who knows when BB will launch anything? Plus, BB is famous for launching a device near the end of their fiscal quarters, which always leads to "but we have to wait for next quarter to see a full quarter's worth of sales of the new device" - which hasn't seemed to improve anything a quarter later, but "kicks the can down the road" a little longer.

    BB's issue is that they don't just have one thing wrong that they can focus on and address when it comes to smartphones - there are about a dozen things wrong, and most of them BB can't do anything about. Perhaps the biggest would be their brand image, which is so bad that IMO it would take several years of sustained, global, EXCELLENT (Apple-quality) marketing to turn around - IF BB could simultaneously fix all of their other issues so that this massive (and massively expensive) marketing campaign wouldn't just be exposing all of BB's other problems. But such a marketing campaign would cost in the neighborhood of $1B/year, and that alone more than BB is worth - with no guarantee of success. The board would never approve of such a risk.

    Chen isn't to blame for any of that, though - Mike L is the one who started BB's nosedive - and built BB's original success on a business model that carriers were heavily motivated to undermine. By the time Heins took over, it was too late to pull up, so Heins had only one option: to see the launch of BB10 through and hope for a miracle against all odds. When that miracle didn't appear, Heins was out, BB was put up for sale, and Chen had to step into an unwinnable situation (as far as handsets go, anyway) and salvage what he could. But make no mistake, there was nothing in his power that he could have done to save BB10 - it was doomed long before his first day on the job. Hell, it was doomed before BB bought QNX in 2010, and it was barely a twinkle in Mike L's eye at that point. The three years Mike squandered following the iPhone launch announcement (and arguably, several years before, when he should have been developing a next-gen OS to replace BBOS, which had long been showing signs of reaching its limits) was where BB10 lost. In tech terms, that was a huge window of time when there was still opportunity, and Mike kept BB on the sidelines as Apple and Google raced past, insisting all the while that what customers REALLY wanted was 2G networks with BIS, PKBs, and a crappy web browser, even when every story in the tech press was about smartphones with great cameras, full featured, powerful web browsers, and APPS APPS APPS!
    06-24-16 10:03 PM
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