[kbz1960]

I think if RIM drops making BB phones and concentrates on software, they're done. Google's way ahead and RIM fumbled the ball big time. I have a 9800, the best phone I have. I hope BB10 is successful and I'd like one. But if they fold, I'll look at an Android. My contract's up Feb 2013, so I'll have time. Like many, I'm waiting to see what BB10 will be like which may be why they are not selling phones.
But another issue is the confusing array of BB smartphones. E.G.,I thought of getting a 9860, but BB lists a 9850. I can't find any real "huge" difference between them. Go to the CB site where you can download free wallpaper and see how many phones are listed. RIM needs ALL these models? Why? What huge tech advantage is there?
Playbook was ill conceived and very inadequate next to iPad. Why didn't RIM just work on getting out the best phone out there? Or did RIM just give up and even BB10 is all bs and just a show for the stockholders, and nice people like us are being sold a line of BS hoping we buy a RIM product, knowing they'll just dump the company anyway, and they'll make a few more bucks off dumb but well intentioned and loyal customers? I hope not, but there is more to this story RIM isn't telling its US customers.

Well the USA has cdma and gsm networks, 9850 cdma, 9860 gsm and the only difference is the cell radio. The playbook is and was a way to get the new OS up and running and has saved RIM from putting out a phone missing everything the PB was at launch. How well do you think a phone like that would keep RIM going? So with the PB yes RIM has been working on the phones.

[anon(4018671)]

L.a.s.e.r f.o.c.u.s.e.d

[amazinglygraceless]

@deRusett: Thank you for that explanation. Very helpful.

[_StephenBB81]

@deRusett: Thank you for that explanation. Very helpful.

I wish @deRusett actually notified me, I'm getting spoiled on another forum with notification when someone @usernames you

[gryphon13]

It makes you think doesn't it.

The Sunday Times has a slow news day, they haven't kept up with developments at RIM for several months and want to show they are covering a phone manufacturer that is very popular in the UK. Let's get some readers in.

So, they write a completely Speculative story with no sources. I can tell you the sources:

- speculative stories and opinions made in other media from months ago.
- speculative opinion pieces on tech blogs.
- speculative opinions made by people in tech forums like this one.
- oh yeah, Johnnie down at the pub over a pint.

Even Reuters, who has not had very fair or impartial coverage of RIM lately, first sent out the headline and summary this morning, then they issued out another copy with the addition of "the British newspaper reported without citing sources". A little bit of CYA - Cover your .

The article seems to be a speculative listing of every possible and conceivable option based on a news article from a month ago based on information released here a month before.

The story appears to be a big question mark, wrapped in the illusion of fact. Now everyone is picking up the story and quoting the Sunday Times. Bravo!

[khanig]

I see, but I, like many BB customers are not "tech" people of a sort and don't know what "cdm" or whatever is and could care less! The perception is the BB has a dizzying array of phones. Apple...has one and from all reports, a good one. I love BB and hate to see it getting "beat up," but also they have fumbled the ball way too often. Just one example re: PB. A coworker has an iPad and could do emails etc.. PB? It was released to the public and couldn't do emails. IPads could. The perception out there was BB then delivers bad products. Apple does not. We can defend with all the tech jargon we want, but the common customers sees that PB doesn't work, and iPad does. Apple sells more. BB doesn't. And now, BB is thinking of dropping hardware? Where do you think current BB customers are going to do? Well, what I am. We'll wait and see what happens, but we need our phones to do our daily business. So, we're looking at Androids etc.. And all the tech jargon won't change that. It's fine to be right. But jaron isn't selling phones.
What does is that BB does a bad job of advertising that BB phones just, plain work well. I talk with iPhone people that want to check out my 9800 and like it and would switch because they have so much trouble with iPhones. So...where is BB to advertise just how good a phone they have? No where. And that's hurting sales big time.

[W Hoa]

RIM draws 65% of its revenue from hardware sales. It would not make sense to forfeit this revenue by selling off its hardware business.

Licensing makes some sense but only in conjunction with RIM's own phone sales.

[sosumi11]

I talk with iPhone people that want to check out my 9800 and like it and would switch because they have so much trouble with iPhones. So...where is BB to advertise just how good a phone they have? No where. And that's hurting sales big time.

Perhaps you should send your list of people to JD Power. They seem to be asking the wrong people.

2012 U.S. WIRELESS SMARTPHONE AND TRADITIONAL MOBILE PHONE SATISFACTION STUDIES - VOLUME 1

For a seventh consecutive time, Apple ranks highest among manufacturers of smartphones in customer satisfaction. Apple achieves a score of 839 on a 1,000-point scale and performs well in all factors, particularly in ease of operation and features. HTC (798) follows Apple in the smartphone rankings.

[Syrous44]

One thing that I would never accuse RIM's management of is not planning what happens next. Sometimes they seem to plan strangely but, they always plan.

Really is that what you truly believe. Then please explain to me why RIM (which i strongly support by they way as i love their products) went from number one being light years ahead of every one. To being boarder line dead in just 5 short years.

What planning do you speak of. Oh i get it, sitting on their laurels and laughing at the compition making toys apparently and not phones. Guess what those toys are kings now and i am strongly fearful that RIM will cease to exist into the fall of 2013 if they do nothing but staying the current course and focusing on making BB10 great on their own.




Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

[jakie55]

WARNING: RANT !! Call me a conspiracy theorist, or whatever, but I do not trust the big news organizations. Too much "stuff" out there is infotainment, not real news. Of course, one of my favorite movies of all times is "Wag the Dog" kind of shows my bias I taught high school history / social studies a long time ago, and detested how bias and poor reporting got ignored by people. Remember...if it is in print, it must be true. Thank you...that is all, please resume regular broadcast schedule

[khanig]

Also, I didn't mention this before. My son lives in Chicago and has an iPhone that works only half the time. Others I know say their iPhones work in town, but sporadic otherwise. I've never had an issue with my 9800 anywhere. Sure iPhone and Androids have zillions of apps. But how many games and "toys" do you need? Most people want a phone that just plain works all the time. BB delivers, but you'ed never know.
E.g., I'm looking at today's NYTimes, first section, pg 24. Huge ad for iPhones. Where's BB? Remember the "DROID" ads on tv before it came out? Why isn't BB doing the same w/ BB10? No ads in magazines etc? What's going on?
What it looks like, and I dearly hope I'm wrong, is the decision to dump BB's has already been made. Its loyal customers are being strung along to maybe buy a few more products before the hammer falls and make more money for shareholders.
Why doesn't RIM advertise, heavy, about BB10 and just how good a phone they have? It seems to me the only ones talking about BB are people like us in CB.

[khanig]

WARNING: RANT !! Call me a conspiracy theorist, or whatever, but I do not trust the big news organizations. Too much "stuff" out there is infotainment, not real news. Of course, one of my favorite movies of all times is "Wag the Dog" kind of shows my bias I taught high school history / social studies a long time ago, and detested how bias and poor reporting got ignored by people. Remember...if it is in print, it must be true. Thank you...that is all, please resume regular broadcast schedule

Ha! Good one!

[livejam]

Also, I didn't mention this before. My son lives in Chicago and has an iPhone that works only half the time. Others I know say their iPhones work in town, but sporadic otherwise. I've never had an issue with my 9800 anywhere. Sure iPhone and Androids have zillions of apps. But how many games and "toys" do you need? Most people want a phone that just plain works all the time. BB delivers, but you'ed never know.
E.g., I'm looking at today's NYTimes, first section, pg 24. Huge ad for iPhones. Where's BB? Remember the "DROID" ads on tv before it came out? Why isn't BB doing the same w/ BB10? No ads in magazines etc? What's going on?
What it looks like, and I dearly hope I'm wrong, is the decision to dump BB's has already been made. Its loyal customers are being strung along to maybe buy a few more products before the hammer falls and make more money for shareholders.
Why doesn't RIM advertise, heavy, about BB10 and just how good a phone they have? It seems to me the only ones talking about BB are people like us in CB.

Because BB10 isn't out yet and no release date has been set. It would be a waste to advertise this early.

[raptorstv]

RIM has chosen to give up, finally..

[kbz1960]

Also, I didn't mention this before. My son lives in Chicago and has an iPhone that works only half the time. Others I know say their iPhones work in town, but sporadic otherwise. I've never had an issue with my 9800 anywhere. Sure iPhone and Androids have zillions of apps. But how many games and "toys" do you need? Most people want a phone that just plain works all the time. BB delivers, but you'ed never know.
E.g., I'm looking at today's NYTimes, first section, pg 24. Huge ad for iPhones. Where's BB? Remember the "DROID" ads on tv before it came out? Why isn't BB doing the same w/ BB10? No ads in magazines etc? What's going on?
What it looks like, and I dearly hope I'm wrong, is the decision to dump BB's has already been made. Its loyal customers are being strung along to maybe buy a few more products before the hammer falls and make more money for shareholders.
Why doesn't RIM advertise, heavy, about BB10 and just how good a phone they have? It seems to me the only ones talking about BB are people like us in CB.

Pretty obvious that people don't want that or RIM would still be on top don't ya think? I want a phone first but seems a lot don't.

RIM is not advertising because right now there is nothing to advertise but vapor ware or the old phones which consumers don't seem to want. They need to advertise when they have something people can see feel and use. Not too much before that. How well did the playbook advertising work? First professional grade tablet blah blah. That worked real well when it wasn't huh.

[polytope]

One just needs to look at recent actions by Google and Microsoft to see that RIM cannot make BB10 stand on its own legs.

Remember what happened to Apple when they started allowing clones? RIM's software is nowhere close to being like Microsoft's. And even Microsoft is trying to get tablet-making into their own hands.

If RIM splits now, BB10 will not survive as a platform. Why should developers have to deal with a small and fragmented platform? At the moment, the attractive part of BB10 is total integration. If that is gone, one might as well do Android or WP8. At least they're backed by healthier companies.

RIM as a software company will probably reduce to just QNX. Mobile Fusion will probably be replaced by something from Redmond. In other words, splitting is basically saying good bye.

[southlander]

Would manufacturers even be interested if RIM dictates what hardware etc it can put on? I can see the mess you're talking about being an old problem RIM is trying to get away from.

There is a problem yes. If you limit the license terms so that all the licensees cannot differentiate their products, then they are forced to race to the bottom on price. The company with the lowest costs to produce eats everyone else alive. Think to a degree Dell/Windows back in the day.

[kbz1960]

Well I don't know how this would help them at all then unless they are just going to kill bb10. They would be back to no one wanting to develop like they don't for the current bb's because of all the hassles with fragmentation.

[Laura Knotek]

It wouldn't make any sense to kill BB10 after having all those BB Jam developer events. RIM has done some dumb things in the past, but they can't be that dumb.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

[kbz1960]

It wouldn't make any sense to kill BB10 after having all those BB Jam developer events. RIM has done some dumb things in the past, but they can't be that dumb.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

I agree. Therefor this thread/speculation is dumb?

[southlander]

Well I don't know how this would help them at all then unless they are just going to kill bb10. They would be back to no one wanting to develop like they don't for the current bb's because of all the hassles with fragmentation.

One way splitting and licensing the OS would work is if one super dominant hardware maker essentially became a sole licensee/partner. Or at least a strong enough/scrappy one.

Samsung "could" be RIM's savior in the event of a split up. The problem is Samsung is doing so well now with Android, they are not really in need.

HTC would seem to me to be a good choice, and I have always thought that. They are patent-weak. And they have always demonstrated an ability to pump out products that are of pretty good quality at a relentless pace, and adapt. Google chose them to make the first Nexus phone. I think they even made a "FaceBook" phone. Again this demonstrates they can engineer hardware on demand to specific needs.

1. Samsung is becoming very dominant in Android.
2. Nokia has a inside track on Windows Phone 8.
3. Motorola Mobility is now advantaged (if need be) in that it is part of the Android "mother-ship"/Google.
4. LG has not really been all that competitive in Android phones and has lots of other businesses. They seem oddly inept in the Android handset market.

This leaves HTC. Whose Android share is declining thanks to Samsung's Galaxy line, with the S3 now hitting all carriers in the US. HTC might be the best second choice.

[kbz1960]

One way splitting and licensing the OS would work is if one super dominant hardware maker essentially became a sole licensee/partner. Or at least a strong enough/scrappy one.

Samsung "could" be RIM's savior in the event of a split up. The problem is Samsung is doing so well now with Android, they are not really in need.

HTC would seem to me to be a good choice, and I have always thought that. They are patent-weak. And they have always demonstrated an ability to pump out products that are of pretty good quality at a relentless pace, and adapt.

1. Samsung is becoming very dominant in Android.
2. Nokia has a inside track on Windows Phone 8.
3. Motorola Mobility is now advantaged (if need be) in that it is part of the Android "mother-ship"/Google.
4. LG has not really been all that competitive in Android phones and has lots of other businesses. They seem oddly inept in the Android handset market.

This leaves HTC. Whose Android share is declining thanks to Samsung's Galaxy line, with the S3 now hitting all carriers in the US. HTC might be the best second choice.

Now that makes some sense.

[madman0141]

I know this may occur but the article stated Facebook may want to buy the handset side of RIM. Based on facebooks stock I think that would kill BlackBerry phones altogether because their stock sinks faster than RIM and Netflix.

[southlander]

I know this may occur but the article stated Facebook may want to buy the handset side of RIM. Based on facebooks stock I think that would kill BlackBerry phones altogether because their stock sinks faster than RIM and Netflix.

Facebook has never seemed like a good fit. The only thing they bring is some cash. Their image contradicts everything BlackBerry has stood for. RIM needs a partner with money that at the very least is neutral in this respect.

[polytope]

Facebook has never seemed like a good fit. The only thing they bring is some cash. Their image contradicts everything BlackBerry has stood for. RIM needs a partner with money that at the very least is neutral in this respect.

Microsoft/Amazon seems to fit the bill.