[pantlesspenguin]

Had a stylus.

I've never used a stylus before. Was it easy to tap out emails, texts, etc using a stylus?

[Laura Knotek]

I've never used a stylus either. I have a feeling I'd lose styli easily.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

[belfastdispatcher]

I've never used a stylus before. Was it easy to tap out emails, texts, etc using a stylus?

Nave you never played with a Nintendo DS? Same thing.

[belfastdispatcher]

I've never used a stylus either. I have a feeling I'd lose styli easily.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

Came with spares plus you could use anything for a stylus

[pantlesspenguin]

Nave you never played with a Nintendo DS? Same thing.

Nope!

10char

[_StephenBB81]

It's not quite a misconception. If the smartphone market is growing at the rate of, say, 100 activations per day, and 10 of those are qwerty (Why do we refer to physical keyboards as "qwerty" anyway?), then it's fair to say that qwerty users are a shrinking segment of the market.

Like pantless, I had a SideKick for years, from the first model to the LX. It was my first mobile phone, in fact; never had a dumbphone. So I was quite used to "flipping" to type things, and of course the SideKick had the most flamboyant way of doing this. It was my first device and I thought nothing of it. When outages started to become more frequent (not the Great Outage of 2009), I decided to try a BlackBerry in December 2007 or so.

The bulk and "flippiness" of the SideKick never bothered me when it was all I knew, but as soon as I experienced the compactness and ease of the 8320 unibody form there was no way I was ever going back. From that day to this, I've had little interest in any kind of slider.

I think there's a good number of people who have a "never going back" experience as soon as they try a large screen phone (e.g., iPhone or bigger). From that moment their priorities get reordered and qwerty takes 2nd or lower place, if it's a priority at all.

An interesting question is this: How many people are there who start with a an all-touch phone as their first smartphone, get used to it, and then later try a qwerty and have a "never going back" experience? I don't know of anybody like that, but that doesn't mean they're not out there. The answer to that question would help to answer the question of whether we're in transition to a post-keyboard era.

my first smartphone was the Audiovox Thera, it was an All touch phone and I loved it, I moved through other all touch and sliders, and my phone directly before my first BlackBerry was all touch, and I HATED BlackBerry in 2008 when I was given the 8330, I came to crackberry looking for the problems with the phone that I could use to get back to an all touch winmo6 phone. slowly I fell in love, back in 2008 my needs for email were 1/10 of what they are today, the Keyboard and what BlackBerry had to offer me slowly converted me, and I am TRYING really hard to enjoy the touchscreen experience, but it just isn't useful

[_StephenBB81]

I am in that category.
Coming to a 9900 makes me feel like I'm squinting all the time as nearly every app is made more compact and I seem to do a lot of scrolling in everything I do.
Realistically, (using our heads and not hearts) the keyboard is dying a quick death and the fact that for BB10 RIM (of all people) is going all touch first and keyboard (later) is testament to that.

PS: Surely you know why they are called qwerty keyboards?

Ummm realistically only the consumer market is the keyboard dying using my head not my heart I've been giving the all touchscreen experience a very hard run at it, and it just doesn't compare to the qwerty BlackBerry experience,

For people who have mobile phones as conveniences as apposed to necessities maybe the all touchscreen can work.
RIM is releasing an All touchscreen phone first with BB10 because the bigger market are people who don't NEED mobile devices, they are people that WANT mobile devices, and those want people wants consumption devices.

[ubizmo]

For people who have mobile phones as conveniences as apposed to necessities maybe the all touchscreen can work.

This was my position for a long time, but I just don't see it anymore. I see no real evidence for the claim that productive people are less productive on touch keyboards (sigh, all keyboards are touch, but you know what I mean), only anecdotes from people like us.

I work with too many college students who type like a blur on touch screens. I just find it hard to believe that in a few years they're suddenly going to demand physical buttons.

[Moonbase0ne]

This was my position for a long time, but I just don't see it anymore. I see no real evidence for the claim that productive people are less productive on touch keyboards (sigh, all keyboards are touch, but you know what I mean), only anecdotes from people like us.

I work with too many college students who type like a blur on touch screens. I just find it hard to believe that in a few years they're suddenly going to demand physical buttons.

I agree. I think if someone can type very well on a touch screen keyboard, why would they be less production than if they were on a physical keyboard?

I myself am very good and effecient at typing on the iPhone, so much so that I don't miss the physical keyboard when I am not using it. I also LOVE Swype when I am on Android, and can type really well using it also.

I don't see myself getting less "done" simply because I am not using a physical keyboard all the time.

[jthep]

I agree. I think if someone can type very well on a touch screen keyboard, why would they be less production than if they were on a physical keyboard?

I myself am very good and effecient at typing on the iPhone, so much so that I don't miss the physical keyboard when I am not using it. I also LOVE Swype when I am on Android, and can type really well using it also.

I don't see myself getting less "done" simply because I am not using a physical keyboard all the time.

Fair enough, but did you type that message with your iPhone touch keyboard? I think few people really use all touch devices to type long messages bc it can get tedious and to me just doesn't feel right...

[Moonbase0ne]

Fair enough, but did you type that message with your iPhone touch keyboard? I think few people really use all touch devices to type long messages bc it can get tedious and to me just doesn't feel right...

This message I used Android All Touch. I use my iPhone once in awhile along with my Blackberry, but, I do type, sometimes, really long messages/posts on my All Touch devices.

And, I consider this and my previous message/post to be really short ones.

[pantlesspenguin]

And, I consider this and my previous message/post to be really short ones.

Same. I often write responses that are a couple paragraphs long on my Android devices.

[Moonbase0ne]

Same. I often write responses that are a couple paragraphs long on my Android devices.

Haha. I've typed blog entries using my all touch phones, some being about a page and a half long.

[Rickroller]

Fair enough, but did you type that message with your iPhone touch keyboard? I think few people really use all touch devices to type long messages bc it can get tedious and to me just doesn't feel right...

Did you also type "bc" instead of "because" due to it being tedious?

Because touch screens don't feel right to you, no one else should be able to use them proficiently, right? As i've shown in some screenshots i've already posted, I can type about 70-90wpm on my touchscreen. If that's not proficient, then i'm curious to know what is..

[sir.dangerfield]

What about the all the shortcuts, or instantly knowing you have hit the correct key with a physical sensation? I learned to type pretty quickly with my iPhone, and with Android's Swipe, but those required a lot more time to carefully proof read. Passwords were also a small, but annoying task for me on all touch devices. I think having a Bold with a portable tablet gives me the best mobile experience possible for now.

[Moonbase0ne]

Fair enough, but did you type that message with your iPhone touch keyboard? I think few people really use all touch devices to type long messages bc it can get tedious and to me just doesn't feel right...

I also find it interesting that you said you don't think people use all touch devices to type long messages bc/because it's tedious when so many people are using all touch devices. If they need to type a long message, that don't really have much of a choice, aside from bluetooth type keyboards, or they turn on their laptop/desktop, etc... Otherwise, they are using their all touch devices, no?

[_StephenBB81]

This was my position for a long time, but I just don't see it anymore. I see no real evidence for the claim that productive people are less productive on touch keyboards (sigh, all keyboards are touch, but you know what I mean), only anecdotes from people like us.

I work with too many college students who type like a blur on touch screens. I just find it hard to believe that in a few years they're suddenly going to demand physical buttons.

How many 1 are typing formatted corrected content as a blur, 2 have they ever had a quality qwerty hardware keyboard?

Anyone in the last 3 years buying a smartphone for texting and entertainment would have very little reason to buy a BlackBerry and get a good keyboard. If RIM is successful with BB10 then people actually have a choice. They can pick fun and function.

I am trying very hard right now to be productive on touchscreens. I am actually writing this post on the iPad 3, and my speeds over the last 2weeks have increased dramatically I am still much much faster on a BlackBerry and a laptop than I am on any of the touchscreen devices, it's the little things like small miss types of then comma over the m and when it is time to correct that miss type the speed is so slow compared to BlackBerry or Laptop, also the "is" intention that gets "I'd" since both are words nothing is caught I'm usually about 3 paragraphs in before I go and review what I've written.

I do think people can be productive on a touchscreen but if data input is your primary task it just isn't the tool,

[_StephenBB81]

I agree. I think if someone can type very well on a touch screen keyboard, why would they be less production than if they were on a physical keyboard?

I myself am very good and effecient at typing on the iPhone, so much so that I don't miss the physical keyboard when I am not using it. I also LOVE Swype when I am on Android, and can type really well using it also.

I don't see myself getting less "done" simply because I am not using a physical keyboard all the time.

Well I very much am trying to be productive on the touchscreen.
I am waiting on the sg3 to give Android a fair shot, but with iOS I'm faster on it then many of my friends are on their BlackBerry's. Yet I'm still very unproductive on the iPhone compared to the BlackBerry, now a lot has to do I think with how limited iPhone is with minimal apps. But I am not spending the time to find "an app for that" 50times a day, like opening links from within PDF email attachments.

But to focus back to the typing the only chance I have at coming close to being accurate and fast means I must dedicate my attention to the device, and that is a loss of overall productivity as I am usually on the move whilst working.

I will believe that touchscreens are as productive when I see notebooks built with dual screens 1 for typing 1 for content viewing and it actually gaining market traction

[ubizmo]

I will believe that touchscreens are as productive when I see notebooks built with dual screens 1 for typing 1 for content viewing and it actually gaining market traction

But I think the "post-keyboard era" under discussion is about phone keyboards, not keyboards in general. A phone keyboard is inherently less efficient than a full-sized keyboard because you can't type with all your fingers.

I once had one of those small netbooks; the keyboard was just small enough to be useless. I do better on my PB. But give me a keyboard large enough for my hands to do touch typing and nothing else comes close.

[Tre Lawrence]

Interesting thread.

If you go back far enough to see my posts, you'll see where I was harping on the impracticality of touchscreen devices to thumb type. I became especially lippy when the (then) rumored iPhone being talked about.

I don't think a lot of people who prefer physical keyboards can wrap their head around being productive on a touchscreen device. I am (humbly) proof that one can be. I admit, I would never have switched had I not had a long testing period with Swype, but now, I work faster with the combination of virtual keyboards. In landscape, with ICS keyboard, I'll take on any bets!

But yeah, there always will (and always should) be a place for physical keyboards. I still play around with my BBs every now and then for nostalgia's sake. How many of you old Palm heads remember Graffiti? So cool that I can use that every so often on my current device.

Choice is good.

[_StephenBB81]

But I think the "post-keyboard era" under discussion is about phone keyboards, not keyboards in general. A phone keyboard is inherently less efficient than a full-sized keyboard because you can't type with all your fingers.

I once had one of those small netbooks; the keyboard was just small enough to be useless. I do better on my PB. But give me a keyboard large enough for my hands to do touch typing and nothing else comes close.

But the line between mobile and pc is being blurred more and more

Part of facebooks challenge right now is they don't have a solution to monetize mobile access and the next billion users are going to be mobile only

So as the worlds of mobile converge the keyboards relavence increases.

As for the less effiency of the phone keyboard I think the problem lies in the layout of the physical phone keyboard matching the desktop qwerty that slows down the effiency the fact that spacing to travel is so minimal and the doubling up of keys it allows for faster learning of the keyboard layout and faster mastering of typing being in control of just 2 fingers

[Blackberry_boffin]

LOL! The question was why PHYSICAL keyboards are refered to as qwerty keyboards. Touch keyboards have the same qwerty layout, after all .

True. Lol.
But they snagged the name first on smartphones when dumbphones only had 1-9 on them.
When touch keyboards came the name was taken.

[ubizmo]

But the line between mobile and pc is being blurred more and more

Yes, but that blurring is taking place at the tablet/laptop threshold.

As for the less effiency of the phone keyboard I think the problem lies in the layout of the physical phone keyboard matching the desktop qwerty that slows down the effiency the fact that spacing to travel is so minimal and the doubling up of keys it allows for faster learning of the keyboard layout and faster mastering of typing being in control of just 2 fingers

This is an interesting point. I know that there are people who swear by the SureType keyboard, and would like to see it on a virtual keyboard. I never used it, so I can't comment, but it makes me wonder. SureType was itself designed to make the most of a telephone keypad for text entry, in a way more efficient than T9. It does seem that the very thing that made it useful on a telephone numeric keypad would make it useful on a virtual keyboard: fewer keys to be squeezed onto the screen for a correspondingly more forgiving typing experience.

I wonder how many people would use virtual SureType, if BB10 were to offer it as an option (which I don't expect).

Edit: I guess Kevin already asked this question a few months ago: http://crackberry.com/crackberry-ask...erry-10-phones

[_StephenBB81]

Yes, but that blurring is taking place at the tablet/laptop threshold.

you don't consider 5" Plus "phones" bluring those lines between phone and tablet, and then tablet and laptop


EDIT:

I just remembered!
Back in 2003ish I was bluring the lines between phone and laptop far more than I do today!

I had a couple of Audiovox thera smartphones with a folding keyboard docking station, these devices ran Office, and I gave one to my girl friend at the time for use at Queen University in lue of a laptop for note taking, laptops were expensive and big, this device had Office 2000 running on it, and she could blast 60wpm on the fold out keyboard for taking notes, I used one as well as a laptop device since I was still primarily a desktop PC user back then

[Laura Knotek]

^^I agree. The 5" devices like the Note definitely blur the line between smartphone and tablet.

It's funny too seeing the stylus making a comeback as an input device. Granted, the capacitive styli are different from the resistive styli.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express