[dfaris]

One, it's "companies." Two, I'd take a closer look at those histories. Apple never really made a comeback in computers, but instead runs a very profitable computer segment that still floats in the single digits in overall market share. Their comeback came primarily as a result of pushing into new markets (music players, phones, tablets). So, if you're going to claim a similarity between the two companies, you might want to establish which new markets RIM will enter.

You just made my point, funny thing is you don't give RIMM the same benefit of the doubt as Apple. Funny how that is huh.

[Mystic205]

In my case I am a long time BB fan but purchased an iPad despite it being an apple product.. the results?..

1. a savings of $2000 in international roaming charges by using skype over 5 trips in the last 18 months
2. a second GPS marine navigator for my boat, a savings of $900
3. stream netflix to my tv on the boat while at anchor

You can put me in the bucket of "no clue" to your hearts content, but from my perspective you need to understand that a tablet does nothing, its the apps that do everything... ios has them, BB doesnt. a fact that is fully supported by the sales numbers of the relevant devices.

I don't give a f#ck what others think about (my) PlayBook! I love it to the max! And 2.0 made it even better! People who say it's no good just don't know how to use it properly...

[Apelles123]

Apple PR is effectively controlling Tech journalism, the way the Hays Code controlled Hollywood from 1930-1968. Endgaget ,Gizmodo,CNET are all frightened of Apple, any thing that is a threat to Apple is a threat to them. These various sites step in line and obey. As such they are paid for content rather than objective journalism The only true source of information these days are Blogs whose writers have nothing to lose and news sites such as Rueters and AP ,reporting accurately on privacy violations ect.

[avt123]

I think most apple fan boys are extremely threatened by the PlayBook and are scared to death that the ipad toy will soon lose its top spot. The ipad has been on the market a lot longer then the playbook and the biggest complaint they have is "not enough apps". Now they are starting to worry. The playbooks hardware is on par or better then the ipads so once the apps start showing up they will have nothing to complain about. I predict that RIM will out inovate apple in 2012 and will cut into the ipads market share by 10 to 20 percent by early 2013. With the up coming BB10 they will start to gain back some of Rims phone market share that they lost.

The very fact they every apple fan boys is mostly bashing RIM is all the proof you need to know who they are afraid of. Keep talking apple fan boys be scared because RIM knows they have a better product and will continue to out inovate apple. Especially now the steve has passed, everyone knows he was everything to apple, brains, creativity and marketing.

So be afraid apple fan boys because it is true, there is another tablet in town and it's name is PLAYBOOK 2.0!!

LOL. The whole mobile industry is bashing RIM, it's not just Apple fanboys. WP7 fanboys, Android fanboys and Apple fanboys all together.

Why would an Apple fanboy be threatened by a device that is not as useful in their ecosystem? They are all Apple and nothing else. They don't care about a tablet that took a year to finish after it released. They care about their tablet that continues to outsell the rest of the market. The one they would only ever use even if it was dead last.

[sinsin07]

For real, something most i-fanatics (i am not referring to conscious apple fans and users but to those that kind of stick a half bitten apple even on their toilet seats)

Seems like this comment sort of fell in the toliet.

don't want to understand, is that apple has made everything that before was free, a paid app.

For example?

One extra advantage of the playbook is that using the net i can perform most of my online tasks without the real need of any app (e-banking, e-travel etc).

Seen this argument before:
1: Banking apps are free
2: For websites that also have an iOS/Android app, the app makes it easier to maneuver the site. It formatted for fingers. It's faster than loading a web page.
3: One of the banking apps allow you to take a picture of your check deposit and make the deposit right from the phone. No need to visit a bank. Can't do that with a website.

Also i am not obliged to use itunes type of application with it s own format to manage my media files,

Itunes is not the only method to manage files and media.

playbook is cross-platform in many aspects, ipad is apple only and added costing for most stuff.

For example?

They throw in the "artsy" perspective of steve jobs who was indeed a great marketeer but in my perspective not as great a human being (read apple employees testimonies and you ll get my point)

Didn't realize you dealt with him personally when he was alive. What does this have to do with your overall point? There have been several successful CEOs in history that were not great people personally. So what?

and just because of that suddenly he created the need to all people to have a fancy gadget, yeah that is right, the buy it partly because its fancy even when carrying a netbook would be the same hassle but less expensive more productive but less cool...

Then how do you explain the Playbook? Before the iPad there did not seem to be any Playbooks out and about. It would seem that same need for a "fancy" device is found among RIM fans, especially so since this thread is about the Playbook being the worst gadget of 2011. The device launched have baked yet there appears to be roughly a million Playbooks floating about that didn't have as much functionality as other tablet devices and their ecosystem. Up until last week it was a "fancy' device.
Did Steve Jobs create that need among RIM fans too? Instead of bashing Apple you should be thanking them, otherwise who knows if RIM would have brought QNX, you might be still looking forward to a Java future and trackpads. You should get on you knees and thanks Apple/Google for pushing RIM into the future.

Let us not forget the consciousnrelease of faulty antennas on the iphone and the later "have to pay for the special phone holster" thing, ..snip

You have a point there.

i kean it is not RIM vs but for the love of God, enjoy your i-stuff and let the rest of us enjoy our personal choices in peace....

Agreed.

[Economist101]

You just made my point, funny thing is you don't give RIMM the same benefit of the doubt as Apple. Funny how that is huh.

If your point was "RIMM will need to enter new markets to make a comeback," then yes, I made it. But you hadn't mentioned anything like that.

The fact is that Apple's computer business never really recovered from the 90s, so to become what they are now, they had to enter new markets. Throughout the low period, their users continued to claim that Apple computers were superior to PCs, even as they weren't selling and the company was losing money. The iMac certainly helped, and they have a very profitable computer business now, but it was the iPod, iPhone and iPad that brought that company to where it is now. Remember, roughly 70% of Apple's current income comes from iOS products, none of which were available 5 years ago.

[missing_K-W]

I find Engadget's survey quite comical...I personally feel that the PB has been my best tech purchase.....Many find the PB to be an amazing product. One only has to look at online consumer reviews to see an average Of 4/5...pretty good. Whats even more surprising is the overwhelming positive responses from those that own or have used a PB in the comments section of articles, relating to the PlayBook over the past 2 months....People are very impressed with the QNX os....Regardless, the people that own a PB have an overwhelmingly fondness of the device.

QNX is just getting started...The veracity of the PB evolution from concept, to the deliver of OS 2.0 is just amazing. Considering the iPad was in development for years. I congradulate RIM. This product will evolve rapidly.

[plh121]

I can't wait to see what RIM rolls out next because I don't feel their playbook is the worst gadget of the year. In fact, IMHO, it holds its own quite nicely. My coworker brings his Ipad 1 and 2 into work and we have compared them. They are all comparable for what ever one needs to do. He does like the fact my playbook is more handy to travel with. It seems that people like whatever they are familiar with. Once you go BlackBerry.....you never look back

[currentodysseys]

Hey SinSin,
thanks for the irony.
To begin with I am not bashing apple. My point is that apple fanatics are raging war against everything that is not apple made and I believe you will agree with that. On the other hand there are conscious apple product users that have weighted pros and cons and bought a hardware that meets their needs, no problem at all with that, as I said, each can buy what best suits them and enjoy, live and let live.

That out of the way (and not down the toilet), regarding some of your full of constructive cynisism criticism comments:

1. about making everything a paid app: before apple there were services that were for free or used to be added value services. Now we fragment them into apps. You want to be able to read x format files? buy the app etc. It is the general perspective of marketeering everything and building exclusively the product arround their platform that I do not like. Apart from this the indirect costs of ios apps etc for businesses is of course in almost all cases transferred to the services but hey, right I forgot, we only look into direct cost, if we cannot see it it is not there right?

I tunes is the basic STORE for media on an I pad and I think with this enough said.

/about S. Jobs, of course your cynisism avoids to explain to me then why when jobs died the "followers" went all in black clothing to mourn on squares...this does seem a jobs religion. The guy marketed himself and apple to the extend never seen before. I really do not care about him in person but when people all over start praising the great leader and kids have him as model then I do get annoyed....especially when there is cases of apple storming houses without warrants to get to the possibly lost prototypes.... oh I forgot, I have to shut up because he enriched our lives and saved future generations technologically...right....give me a break man.

cross platform might have been the wrong word ok, my meaning is that it is compatible and supports flash, air etc and no mobile pages are needed in most of the URLs I use, plus blackberry instead of trashing soft companies and excluding them because they do not give them absolute rendition they embrase them (eg Android is a smart move don't you think?). That makes them open and with less problems for me as a user.

In terms of creation of playbook, you ommit to focus on the word fancy. I was pointing out the character of i-pads as mode accessories which is part of their character. I for one do not believe in inmaculate creation of anything technologically, things get combined and inspired and created and advanced. Steve Jobs or Apple were not the sole visionaries on creating a touchpad, they got the market first but the idea goes way back, there is 10years plus of tablet relevant ideas and there were palms before I phones or Ipads. No inmaculate conception there... that is also something I have to not thank apple for, they did not create the universe man, they greately shifted things and the market but they did not create the universe, in that aspect yes I bash apple when people come to me with this kind of logic.

regarding your comments about "using the net i can perform most of my online tasks without the real need of any app " understand that I am not refering to cost in this matter. In my work (deals with online provision of services) I have seen and dealt with the mobile apps trying to provide emulation and xml or conectivity to systems and they always come short. You have to sacrifice options and workability in many cases to make them balanced and yes, while they provide a good service, they also create need for extra spending, diversification and adaptation (not transportation) of original web based apps and systems. With the playbook I can enjoy the total features of most web pages and have access to the full content and options. That alone makes it a plus and without needing to use an app, be it free or paid. but this again is personal preference.


anyway, you seem to have gotten to a great deal of trouble to just get ironic with me and again I see no aparent reason but hey, help your self to it.
I am sorry if my english is not good enough and pardon my spelling.

I hope I have managed to clarify to you some of the points I was trying to make.

PS>I would suggest you took it down a nodge man, no reason for hostile cynisism here.

regards.
C.O

[sinsin07]

Hey SinSin,
thanks for the irony.
To begin with I am not bashing apple. My point is that apple fanatics are raging war against everything that is not apple made and I believe you will agree with that. On the other hand there are conscious apple product users that have weighted pros and cons and bought a hardware that meets their needs, no problem at all with that, as I said, each can buy what best suits them and enjoy, live and let live.

That out of the way (and not down the toilet), regarding some of your full of constructive cynisism criticism comments:

1. about making everything a paid app: before apple there were services that were for free or used to be added value services. Now we fragment them into apps. You want to be able to read x format files? buy the app etc. It is the general perspective of marketeering everything and building exclusively the product arround their platform that I do not like. Apart from this the indirect costs of ios apps etc for businesses is of course in almost all cases transferred to the services but hey, right I forgot, we only look into direct cost, if we cannot see it it is not there right?

I tunes is the basic STORE for media on an I pad and I think with this enough said.

/about S. Jobs, of course your cynisism avoids to explain to me then why when jobs died the "followers" went all in black clothing to mourn on squares...this does seem a jobs religion. The guy marketed himself and apple to the extend never seen before. I really do not care about him in person but when people all over start praising the great leader and kids have him as model then I do get annoyed....especially when there is cases of apple storming houses without warrants to get to the possibly lost prototypes.... oh I forgot, I have to shut up because he enriched our lives and saved future generations technologically...right....give me a break man.

cross platform might have been the wrong word ok, my meaning is that it is compatible and supports flash, air etc and no mobile pages are needed in most of the URLs I use, plus blackberry instead of trashing soft companies and excluding them because they do not give them absolute rendition they embrase them (eg Android is a smart move don't you think?). That makes them open and with less problems for me as a user.

In terms of creation of playbook, you ommit to focus on the word fancy. I was pointing out the character of i-pads as mode accessories which is part of their character. I for one do not believe in inmaculate creation of anything technologically, things get combined and inspired and created and advanced. Steve Jobs or Apple were not the sole visionaries on creating a touchpad, they got the market first but the idea goes way back, there is 10years plus of tablet relevant ideas and there were palms before I phones or Ipads. No inmaculate conception there... that is also something I have to not thank apple for, they did not create the universe man, they greately shifted things and the market but they did not create the universe, in that aspect yes I bash apple when people come to me with this kind of logic.

regarding your comments about "using the net i can perform most of my online tasks without the real need of any app " understand that I am not refering to cost in this matter. In my work (deals with online provision of services) I have seen and dealt with the mobile apps trying to provide emulation and xml or conectivity to systems and they always come short. You have to sacrifice options and workability in many cases to make them balanced and yes, while they provide a good service, they also create need for extra spending, diversification and adaptation (not transportation) of original web based apps and systems. With the playbook I can enjoy the total features of most web pages and have access to the full content and options. That alone makes it a plus and without needing to use an app, be it free or paid. but this again is personal preference.


anyway, you seem to have gotten to a great deal of trouble to just get ironic with me and again I see no aparent reason but hey, help your self to it.
I am sorry if my english is not good enough and pardon my spelling.

I hope I have managed to clarify to you some of the points I was trying to make.

PS>I would suggest you took it down a nodge man, no reason for hostile cynisism here.

regards.
C.O

Great post. I will leave it at that.

[currentodysseys]

Great post. I will leave it at that.

Thank you and for real, no intention to create bad vibes here, again if in any way I have annoyed you in previous posts I am sorry.

Looking forward to exchanging views in other matters in the forums.
all the best.

[bobauckland]

The PlayBook could well end up being a disaster for RIM despite being an absolutely fantastic piece of kit.
The problem is, if you have people snapping them up at firesale prices, you've got your product in the hands of lots and lots of people. People with expectations.
When those people find that this product can't do certain things important to them, be it video chatting with non playbook owners or netflix or whatever, when they find it can't but other devices can, they are more likely to look at those other devices for future purchases. Invest in those ecosystems. And leave the BlackBerry ecosystem with a bad taste.
Its far better for people not to know about something than to know it and dislike it, because bringing those customers back in the future will be harder, particularly with someone coming out all the time saying the PlayBook is the preview to BB10, people will think, right, BB10 won't meet my needs either. And it will be dead on arrival.
So the PlayBook could be a great thing or a horrible thing for RIM. they're out there in many peoples hands, can they deliver and keep those people as customers and more importantly, future customers? I don't think thats a straightforward question and RIM has to ensure they answer it in a clear and quick fashion, or ignore it at their peril.

[tchocky77]

....especially when there is cases of apple storming houses without warrants to get to the possibly lost prototypes....

I'm going to call b*llsh@t right here. Did anyone else notice this?

[avt123]

I'm going to call b*llsh@t right here. Did anyone else notice this?

Yes, this happened. I believe they told the people they were police but they were just Apple security looking for the iPhone 4 prototype that was lost. I wouldn't have used the word "storming", but it happened. I believe it was only one house as well but I could be wrong.

[tchocky77]

They pretended to be the police? Did they pretend to have a warrant as well? I'm sorry but this sounds like it came from a ferrelli bros. movie. Not that it didn't happen, I recall reading it. But it's more comical than imposing.

I guess the word "stroming" suggested heavily armed agents rappelling from helicopters or something. It's a bit dramatic.

[avt123]

They pretended to be the police? Did they pretend to have a warrant as well? I'm sorry but this sounds like it came from a ferrelli bros. movie. Not that it didn't happen, I recall reading it. But it's more comical than imposing.

I guess the word "stroming" suggested heavily armed agents rappelling from helicopters or something. It's a bit dramatic.

Yea it's not like it was a raid or anything lol.

[FSeverino]

pretty sure pretending to be police is a federal offence in every country

[avt123]

pretty sure pretending to be police is a federal offence in every country

Supposedly they led the guy to think they were also police but there were cops there as well...

The San Francisco Police Department has said it has no record of a formal investigation into yet another missing prototype iPhone. In addition, the man whose home was searched claims people impersonating police offers came into his residence, with evidence suggesting one of the individuals was an Apple-employed "senior investigator" [updated with confirmation of visit from SFPD].

Update: A spokesman for the San Francisco Police Department has now confirmed that police officers were indeed involved in visiting the residence of Sergio Calder�n, though he alleges that Apple security officials allowed him to believe that they were also officers when they searched his house.

Local police told San Francisco Weekly they have no record of any police investigation into a lost prototype next-generation iPhone. CNet first claimed on Wednesday that Apple is working with police to recover a missing iPhone prototype allegedly left in a bar in San Francisco's Mission District.

"I don't know who (CNet's) source is, but we don't have any record of any such an investigation going on at this point," San Francisco Police Department spokesman Officer Albie Esparza said.

Esparza went on to share that there are no records of any police visit to Bernal Heights, where the original report claimed officers went to question a man who denied having knowledge of the missing iPhone. Further, there are said to be no records involving the address where police were alleged to have searched for the missing phone.

In a follow-up report, the Bernal Heights man whose home was searched said that six people claiming to be San Francisco Police officers came to his home and allegedly questioned him and searched the premises. They reportedly said they had traced a prototype iPhone to his residence using GPS technology.

"This is something that's going to need to be investigated now," San Francisco Police Department Lt. Troy Dangerfield said, according to the report. "If this guy is saying that people said they were SFPD, that's a big deal."

Sergio Calderon, the 22-year-old Bernal Heights resident, said his home was searched on an evening in July by six people who "threatened" him. He claims four men and two women wearing badges showed up at his door and identified themselves as being with the San Francisco Police Department.

The man said he let the six individuals search his car and his house, and he gave them access to his computer. Calderon said he is an American citizen, but the people who came into his home questioned his citizenship and stated they "were all going to get into trouble."

Calderon said one of the men identified himself as "Tony" and provided a phone number to call if he had further information. When SF Weekly called the number, they reached an Anthony Colon, who reportedly said he is an employee of Apple.

Colon's profile on LinkedIn has since been taken down, but it previously revealed that he is a former San Jose Police sergeant who works as a "senior investigator" at Apple.

Police said they have no record of visiting the bar where another prototype iPhone is claimed to have been lost.

Claims that another iPhone prototype had been lost at a bar came as a surprise this week, as the story is similar to an incident that occurred last year, in which a prototype iPhone 4 was left at a bar. The event caused a media sensation as Gizmodo and its parent company Gawker Media paid $5,000 to obtain the device, which had not yet been publicly announced by Apple.

The two men alleged to have found the prototype iPhone 4 in a separate San Francisco bar last year faces charges of misdemeanor theft. Both of them pleaded not guilty on Thursday, with a trial start date scheduled for November 28.

Apple staffer posing as police allegedly searched home for missing iPhone prototype - AppleInsider

[currentodysseys]

I'm going to call b*llsh@t right here. Did anyone else notice this?

Ok since you think i am saying bul@?$ check out the LA Times here... That will teach you to watch your big mouth before insulting anyone again:

latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/09/sf-police-accompanied-apple-in-search-of-mans-home.html[/url]

Psi have not enough posts for a link to be published so look la time business blogs to make it work.

[avt123]

Ok since you are such an educated smart a@@ call bul@?$ on LA Time here... That will teach you to shut your big mouth before insulting anyone again:

latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/09/sf-police-accompanied-apple-in-search-of-mans-home.html[/url]

Psi have not enough posts for a link to be published so look la time business blogs to make it work.

No need to bash anyone. He didn't even bash you.

Here is the link as well.

SFPD gave Apple 'assistance' searching home for lost device - latimes.com

[currentodysseys]

No need to bash anyone. He didn't even bash you.

Here is the link as well.

Sorry but IMO he did without any provocation whatsoever.

Last time i checked telling someone that they re saying @@@$$? Without even checking what they say out first it was impolite and offensive. (especially when pointing out if "anybody else noticed" which is a qualifier for calling someone a big mouth smart .@ss).

Since you consider my post unprovoked & offensive i will edit it to something more "appropriate and politically correct"
thank you for posting the link for me.
All the best.

[avt123]

Sorry but IMO he did without any provocation whatsoever.

Last time i checked telling someone that they re saying @@@$$? Without even checking what they say out first it was impolite and offensive. (especially when pointing out if "anybody else noticed" which is a qualifier for calling someone a big mouth smart .@ss).

Since you consider my post unprovoked & offensive i will edit it to something more "appropriate and politically correct"
thank you for posting the link for me.
All the best.

I understand, but fighting fire with fire will only hurt you on this forum.

Also, you're welcome. A few more post and you can post them.

[sinsin07]

I'm going to call b*llsh@t right here. Did anyone else notice this?

Yes, this happened. I believe they told the people they were police but they were just Apple security looking for the iPhone 4 prototype that was lost. I wouldn't have used the word "storming", but it happened. I believe it was only one house as well but I could be wrong.

They pretended to be the police? Did they pretend to have a warrant as well? I'm sorry but this sounds like it came from a ferrelli bros. movie. Not that it didn't happen, I recall reading it. But it's more comical than imposing.

I guess the word "stroming" suggested heavily armed agents rappelling from helicopters or something. It's a bit dramatic.

It depends on what story you want to believe. Later stories were amended:

"The bizarre saga involving a lost prototype of the iPhone 5 has taken another interesting turn. Contradicting past statements that no records exist of police involvement in the search for the lost prototype, San Francisco Police Department spokesman Lt. Troy Dangerfield now tells SF Weekly that "three or four" SFPD officers accompanied two Apple security officials in an unusual search of a Bernal Heights man's home."

For some it's easy to believe Apple impersonating police officers and "storming houses" because they have a inclination for stories that show Apple in a bad light. Apple generates a pro and anti cult church of people. Call it jealousy at their success, call it an aversion to their fan base, call it whatever you want. Most of it is just parroting what the hear and read with no real thought just to be on an anti-band wagon.

For me, if I'm an Apple Security person asked to do something like this, my first thought is going to be am I paid to get shot. You are walking into a unknown situation with no authority and if something goes down, how you going to get out of it.

Since none of us was there, no one can say for sure what happened. Since it doesn't affect me I am not going to worry about it. That' what a Sig Sauer is for.

[kill_9]

From marketing success perspective 2011 was a very bad year for the BlackBerry PlayBook. From a features and capabilities perspective the tablet was laying the groundwork for a bountiful 2012 and beyond. I think with the upgrade to BlackBerry PlayBook Tablet OS 2.0 the tablet would have been much better received in 2011. Despite the naysayers this tablet has proven itself to me from the initial release of BlackBerry Bridge and only seems to get better albeit at a slower pace than most of us would prefer to endure. If Research In Motion can refocus and maintain the momentum going forward the BlackBerry PlayBook has the potential to be the central component of an integrated mobile communications eco-system. Now if only Research In Motion would make the decision to leverage QNX as the foundation for the next generation of BlackBerry Enterprise Server and Blackberry Enterprise Server Express providing an appliance for secure messaging.

[kill_9]

iPad has a little hole for a speaker. LOL!!!! Pathetic!

That speaker is so Steve Jobs can speak to the Applites in the Afterlife.