Phoning With the Enemy (WP)

My current base phone is the Z10. Over the last few weeks, I've been testing out 2 other phones for work associates, with a view toward upgrading my Z10 after I'm through with the process. I have been testing a Z30 on Verizon (our main work carrier is ATT) and a Nokia Lumia 1520 (on ATT) which is the behemoth 6 inch Windows Phone. This has somewhat undercut what would have otherwise been my greater appreciation for the larger screen on the Z30, when compared to the Z10. I won't go over my impressions of the Z30 which have been dealt with elsewhere, but the WP end has been an interesting exercise.

• I have been surprised how much I've missed BBM when using the 1520. I hadn't thought of it as other than a tertiary benefit of BB, but there is something intangible that I miss when I try to substitute email and text. I haven't gone the Whatsapp route, despite its being available on WP, because it doesn't impress in comparison to BBM. MS has a site where users can vote for the features they would like to see added to WP and while not the top vote getter, BBM for WP is fairly high on the list.
• No current ability to create folders on WP homescreen, but this is reportedly coming to the next major upgrade of WP, scheduled, IIRC, for sometime in early to mid 2014. It is nonetheless a real pleasure to fiddle with the sizes and placement of the WP Tiles. Some of this comes from the luxury of having all that screen real estate, but the WP UI definitely has real merit. I tire of seeing those Chiclet buttons, whether they're on my Z10, Z30 or on a friend's Android or Iphone. It's nice to be able to choose between 3 sizes and to reconfigure the look and function of the homescreen to the WP degree.
• The Live Tiles are cool, but overuse becomes a battery drain. Still, its nice to be able to pick and choose which tiles will show live content and which will be static.
• Battery life, even with the huge screen, is excellent. But so has it been on my Z30, relative to the Z10.
• WP apps look somehow prettier than do their BB10 counterpart. Some of this is owing to the huge 1520 screen, but not all.
• Slightly more app availability, in terms of what I want and use. As with BB, this defect really has more to do with developer support than with actual need. Knowing that WP is likely to enjoy more and sustained developer support (relative to BB) makes the "app gap" even less of a concern but overall there is a kind of parity between BB and WP.
• No surprise -- BB is the absolute master of email functionality. WP hasn't even integrated document and pdf attachments directly into its email client. There are work-arounds, but they're awkward and time-consuming.
• The integration with SkyDrive or other cloud-based services is disappointing but still promising.
• No stylus support to speak off.
• I really, really miss the OS leaks we have access to on BB10! There is some ability to get in on a preview release of the next WP, but its infrequent and my sense is that it won't be as beneficial as leaks are on BB10.
• ATT, because it is ATT, actually downgraded the 1520 to remove the most popular wireless charging option. And even more disconcertingly reduced internal memory from 32 to 16g! Some sort of strategy thing. Make a big, media friendly device and then deliberately hamstring its recharging capabilities and its memory, which is all the more precious because of the types of apps you are likely to use on that type of device (you can not run apps from the microsd card).
• For someone with vision issues, the 6 inch screen is such a blessing that it may well be worth the inconvenience, if not embarrassment, of carrying around a slablet of this gargantuan dimension.

The WP community, similar to ours, tends to be cranky and self-centered when it comes to features and apps. There seems to be widespread outrage and effrontery when it turns out that each new device isn't designed with our peculiar and idiosyncratic tics and ways foremost in mind. WP has been my safety platform for awhile now, and my experience with the 1520 strengthens my feelings. But it also confirms the general consensus here on CB that BB10 and the latest BB devices are competitive across the board and superior when it comes to email and processing documents. The 1520 specs lap the Z30's, but in real-time the difference is almost imperceptible. But the 1520 feels faster.

BB has been producing under duress and without the limitless capital of MS, but even so, it ain't easy to develop a new ecosystem, design new devices optimized to that new and moving-target ecosystem, while making everyone happy in all things. Much of the bitter criticism directed against BB's management here on CB reflects the inherent difficulty in the challenges they faced and face, rather than being fallout of their incompetence or lack of vision. BB10 is still the best platform, followed by WP, obviously IMHO. I also have been working with people who are on Android and IOS and neither of these groups seem very happy with the latest releases of their OS's (particularly IOS, about which I've heard a lot of negative commentary). No one has gotten it all precisely right. particularly the cloud integration aspects. The wheel's still in spin, opportunity remains for BB.

I still also use my Z10 at night, which now feels like the incredible shrinking phone!

That is a great post! Personally putting my Z10 in the drawer collecting dust, as I have moved to a note 3. Kept my 9900 as main business phone as it hasn't any distracting apps etc.

What I found with the BB, is that the voice calls are great, I can bet that the Z30 would be much better than the 10. I am looking at getting one soon, personally as now I like big phones as personal/play/toy.

Windows Phone was nice when I had my Lumia 820, but again, it's really not as polished IMO as a more mature OS like Android, or BB 10.2.1 even. I miss my hub on BB10, and of course BBM is a must.

I've been testing a Nokia 920 running Amber. I've had similar experiences as the OP but I tabled my 9810 not a BB10 device. My Z10 should be here in a few days to help me make a similar comparison.

Right now, if I had to voice complaints about WP8 it would be closing (or not being able to close) apps and the complete lack of file management in device or syncing with something I use other than SkyDrive. I just don't know the device well enough yet but somethings like a home page in the browser would be nice.

Awesome post! Although both phones are a bit big for my liking (especially the 1520!!), it's very cool to read these kind of comparisons with the other OS'es I'm interested in

Posted via CB10

Very good post! I have made the jump from BB10 to WP a couple months ago and I really do enjoy it. One of the first things I noticed is that the Windows Store leapfrogs BlackBerry World by far. There really is no comparison, and the Windows Store deserves more credit than it is getting. Granted, it still isn't near the App Store, but it is still far ahead of BlackBerry World. I may be coming back to BlackBerry with the Z30 for my upgrade or I might go with the Lumia 929 which should be out in mid December. It will be a tough decision.

WP is a great platform but the OS still feels immature even after being in development for 2+ years. The BB 10 OS has so much more features built in. Apparently Wp 8.1 will bring in more features. But we'll have to see.

How is app switching on wp8 compared to BB10?

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

Originally Posted by Dave Bourque

How is app switching on wp8 compared to BB10?

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

Not as good as BB10...but then again, nothing is as far as I'm concerned.

FWIW, It's been another 6 weeks, and I've left the Z10 behind for the Z30 and the Lumia 1520. I was one of those who was initially very critical of BB for under-specking the Z30 on the display side, and then as its availability approached, forgiving of this business decision and it was a non-issue at first. But a steady comparison with the 1520 makes the Z30 seem positively dingy. For all its capability, the comparatively muddy appearance makes the Z30 seem less than high end.

The battery life of both the Z30 and the 1520 are terrific. I am surprised by how much I like wireless charging on the 1520, even after ATT stripped out Qi onboard wireless charging, which made it necessary to buy a bulky PMA charging case. I would like to have this option for the Z30.

It is not a surprise to me, however dumbstruck the tech press was, that the Z30 lapped its competitors in productivity during CES. Pound-for-pound, BB10 is still the best and when it comes to email and attachments, its like Secretariat making its last turn at the Belmont Stakes. WP still has a convoluted way of attaching anything but images to an email. Go figure. You'd think Microsoft would have figured things out by now.

The WP touchscreen keyboard is pretty good, second in my experience only to BB10.
WP has brought a sort of virtual folder making capability to its homescreen (or Nokia has). Its not bad, but its not what I've had for years on BB.

Contacts are an interesting contrast. I didn't have near the horrors of multiplying and mutating contacts that I had going from legacy BB OS to BB10, when I initiated contacts on WP. But some contacts never show up when I search, yet I know they are in there somewhere because when I manually add in the contact info, the fields populate themselves.

I really, really, really miss the BB10 universal search when I'm on the 1520. This is just one of the ways in which I can do what I need faster and with fewer strokes on the Z30 than I can on the 1520. There are many instances of this. And for all its aesthetic appeal, WP remains confusing to me at times, and in certain critical functions. If I am driving with GPS on the 1520 and a call comes in, I have to think about how to take the call, and then when the call is over, it doesn't default back to the previous GPS screen and if I had been listening to music through the media player, it is now stopped and has to be restarted. Many instances like that, where BB10 is just more streamlined and more thought out.

I think WP 8.1 is coming in or around April, and there is likely to be improvements on stuff like attachments, etc. There has been, overall, a pleasant steady update of apps from the much criticized WP Store.

If I had to pick one tipping point, for me, its the terrific, massive screen on the 1520. It is a tipping point after which I do not feel the absence of a physical keyboard as keenly as I had in the past, either with the Z10 or Z30. If I had to pick my dream device today, I'm not sure if I would want a 1520 form factor running BB10, or a kind of giant Q10, ala the Typo. Probably the former. And in all events with onboard wireless charging, at least 32g internal and bigtime specs.

There's no accounting for taste, but I do prefer the aesthetics of WP tiles, with their ability to show live info in detail. WP also has "glance" features for when the phone is locked. Generally, the toast alert functions aren't bad either, but there again, with BB10 I can more quickly and intuitively get to the details than I can with WP. But then I've been on BB OS's forever.

Awesome comparison! I'm really interested in WP as a backup option incase something happens to BlackBerry

Posted via CB10

Originally Posted by eldricho

Awesome comparison! I'm really interested in WP as a backup option incase something happens to BlackBerry

Posted via CB10

I don't think you have anything to worry about. I see BlackBerry around for a very long time. But I do get your point :)

Posted with my gorgeous Z30

Good to have competition. It drive out the best design and outcome. Just like race to the moon.
Posted via CB10

Originally Posted by mmcpher

FWIW, It's been another 6 weeks, and I've left the Z10 behind for the Z30 and the Lumia 1520. I was one of those who was initially very critical of BB for under-specking the Z30 on the display side, and then as its availability approached, forgiving of this business decision and it was a non-issue at first. But a steady comparison with the 1520 makes the Z30 seem positively dingy. For all its capability, the comparatively muddy appearance makes the Z30 seem less than high end.

The battery life of both the Z30 and the 1520 are terrific. I am surprised by how much I like wireless charging on the 1520, even after ATT stripped out Qi onboard wireless charging, which made it necessary to buy a bulky PMA charging case. I would like to have this option for the Z30.

It is not a surprise to me, however dumbstruck the tech press was, that the Z30 lapped its competitors in productivity during CES. Pound-for-pound, BB10 is still the best and when it comes to email and attachments, its like Secretariat making its last turn at the Belmont Stakes. WP still has a convoluted way of attaching anything but images to an email. Go figure. You'd think Microsoft would have figured things out by now.

The WP touchscreen keyboard is pretty good, second in my experience only to BB10.
WP has brought a sort of virtual folder making capability to its homescreen (or Nokia has). Its not bad, but its not what I've had for years on BB.

Contacts are an interesting contrast. I didn't have near the horrors of multiplying and mutating contacts that I had going from legacy BB OS to BB10, when I initiated contacts on WP. But some contacts never show up when I search, yet I know they are in there somewhere because when I manually add in the contact info, the fields populate themselves.

I really, really, really miss the BB10 universal search when I'm on the 1520. This is just one of the ways in which I can do what I need faster and with fewer strokes on the Z30 than I can on the 1520. There are many instances of this. And for all its aesthetic appeal, WP remains confusing to me at times, and in certain critical functions. If I am driving with GPS on the 1520 and a call comes in, I have to think about how to take the call, and then when the call is over, it doesn't default back to the previous GPS screen and if I had been listening to music through the media player, it is now stopped and has to be restarted. Many instances like that, where BB10 is just more streamlined and more thought out.

I think WP 8.1 is coming in or around April, and there is likely to be improvements on stuff like attachments, etc. There has been, overall, a pleasant steady update of apps from the much criticized WP Store.

If I had to pick one tipping point, for me, its the terrific, massive screen on the 1520. It is a tipping point after which I do not feel the absence of a physical keyboard as keenly as I had in the past, either with the Z10 or Z30. If I had to pick my dream device today, I'm not sure if I would want a 1520 form factor running BB10, or a kind of giant Q10, ala the Typo. Probably the former. And in all events with onboard wireless charging, at least 32g internal and bigtime specs.

There's no accounting for taste, but I do prefer the aesthetics of WP tiles, with their ability to show live info in detail. WP also has "glance" features for when the phone is locked. Generally, the toast alert functions aren't bad either, but there again, with BB10 I can more quickly and intuitively get to the details than I can with WP. But then I've been on BB OS's forever.

Now someone say there is no room for phablets, bigger BB10 phones or even a new Playbook.

Six-inch BlackBerry phone and tablet in one? Sign me up. As much as I love my Q and my Z, such a thing with bluetooth keyboard would allow me to carry only one device, no more double-lugging a tablet or even netbook. Just needs plenty of internal memory, huge SDcard and USB/OTG support.

My name is Prem, I'm using BBM ... from my QuZe10 ...whatarhyme...

* UPDATE for General Developer Release of WP 8.1 *

MS released their developers' preview of their upgrade of the Windows Phone 8.1, which despite the incremental number is a substantial upgrade of the platform. I've only been running it a couple of hours, but its interesting to revisit the comparison of BB10 on a Z30 to WP8.1 on a Lumia 1520 (a 6 inch screen device).

The early tech press reviews are positive, and justifiably so IMHO, with a lot of real estate devoted to Contana which is MS's very smart entry into device-wide voice control. In my case, I've never much used voice control, although I have "Say-It" installed on my Z30. Its chief function seems to be as a rival to the BB camera app for the title of most-often-accidentally-launched app.

• But my early impression of Contana is that it has a much more advanced capability of true voice recognition, even in situations with background noise. The accuracy is such that I will definitely and for the first time do a serious test run of integrating voice into my daily device driving;
• WP8.1 has a new version of IE 11 on board, which finally incorporates a "Reader Mode" which is comparable to what I've enjoyed under BB10 for a long time now. WP has effectively caught up here;
• The WP home-screen Tiles are in a league of their own, and widening the gap. 8.1 allows a cool parallax view whereby you can pick any image as your background which you can see through and have the tiles scroll up and down -- not only are the tiles aesthetically superior to every other OS, including BB10, they allow an enormous amount of continually updating info and the battery life is good enough that its worth it;
• WP8.1 brings a new level of "peak" or "glance" and toast like notifications, as well as fast and universal access to key settings -- pulling even and now ahead of BB10 here;
• Email -- still not in the BB10 class in handling attachments -- you still need to have 3rd party apps and hand input settings and its a general pita just to attach anything other than an image on a WP device -- BB is still the undefeated email champ;
• Still no universal search like we have BB10, unless Cortana learns on a deeper level than I'm aware of. BB10 still significantly ahead here;
• WP8.1 seems to allow greater flexibility in running multiple apps, but not near the BB10 level. The device launches fast enough that it isn't quite as big a deal as I would have thought, but BB10 is still superior in this regard.
• WP8.1 still lacks a convenient and full featured file manager;
• WP8.1 now incorporates "word flow" swype capability into its keyboard. I haven't gotten the hang of it but others tell me you will be able to type faster. A nice feature is you can either use or ignore it without having to toggle it on or off -- it seems to work best for me in combination, using regular keyboard sometimes and swype for other words;
• WP8.1 allows you to save and run apps from the media card now; and
• WP8.1 has a redesigned Store and overall integration with MS desktops, XboxOne, Office and Surface continues to converge.

WP8.1 is an excellent upgrade and to my mind WP is the growing threat to BB10. Still no BBM yet on WP, of course, but that's just a matter of time if the reports are accurate. MS has taken a lot of justified heat for its bungling of the Tiles-based UI on desktops but on a large-screen smartphone they are so customizable and content rich that despite the current low-market share, its rivals will have to play catch up. You can't run Android Apps on a WP.

Originally Posted by zocster

That is a great post! Personally putting my Z10 in the drawer collecting dust, as I have moved to a note 3. Kept my 9900 as main business phone as it hasn't any distracting apps etc.

What I found with the BB, is that the voice calls are great, I can bet that the Z30 would be much better than the 10. I am looking at getting one soon, personally as now I like big phones as personal/play/toy.

Windows Phone was nice when I had my Lumia 820, but again, it's really not as polished IMO as a more mature OS like Android, or BB 10.2.1 even. I miss my hub on BB10, and of course BBM is a must.

Can I have your z10? Lol

Posted via CB10

Just as a minor side note, you can create app folder tiles on any Samsung Windows Phone. They have a manufacturer only app on their devices called App Folder that is exactly what it says.

Curious to hear your final decision.

There is an app from Nokia that allows you to make folders. Also, Cortana can search the entire phone, so it does have universal search.

Posted via CB10

Originally Posted by Jas00555

There is an app from Nokia that allows you to make folders. Also, Cortana can search the entire phone, so it does have universal search.

Posted via CB10

Yes to both -- you can create and populate folders, although I would like to be able to put browser shortcuts into folders as well. And Cortana does include "Phone" now, along with web and "local" searching. It doesn't seem to be working yet on my 1520 however, as I haven't seen any results under the phone screen.

Universal Search is a good illustration of how BB10.2 remains a more mature and efficient OS, IMHO. If, for example, I type "Audible" on my Z30 my Audible app appears right at the top, then there are emails below it to and from audible.com and other emails including the word "audible". and below that there are icons to run the search in the web, twitter, etc. This is precisely what I'm looking for in universal search. If I want a web search I have Bing, google, etc., as icons to bring me right into those apps.

But Cortana on WP8.1 is heavily weighted toward web searching. It is supposed to learn my ways and adjust, but even if the "phone" setting were operational, it would still default to web results and I would have to swipe over several screens to get to the device search results. You have to teach Cortana to respond to verbal clues, like "Hey Scout, drive to work" in order to get it to know you want to find and launch the Scout Navigator app. I like the way my Z30 handles it better. It knows its a smartphone and figures I may well be interested in running a smartphone app.

Originally Posted by mmcpher

Yes to both -- you can create and populate folders, although I would like to be able to put browser shortcuts into folders as well. And Cortana does include "Phone" now, along with web and "local" searching. It doesn't seem to be working yet on my 1520 however, as I haven't seen any results under the phone screen.

Universal Search is a good illustration of how BB10.2 remains a more mature and efficient OS, IMHO. If, for example, I type "Audible" on my Z30 my Audible app appears right at the top, then there are emails below it to and from audible.com and other emails including the word "audible". and below that there are icons to run the search in the web, twitter, etc. This is precisely what I'm looking for in universal search. If I want a web search I have Bing, google, etc., as icons to bring me right into those apps.

But Cortana on WP8.1 is heavily weighted toward web searching. It is supposed to learn my ways and adjust, but even if the "phone" setting were operational, it would still default to web results and I would have to swipe over several screens to get to the device search results. You have to teach Cortana to respond to verbal clues, like "Hey Scout, drive to work" in order to get it to know you want to find and launch the Scout Navigator app. I like the way my Z30 handles it better. It knows its a smartphone and figures I may well be interested in running a smartphone app.

yes Blackberry does it better

With WP you can block phone, txt and email that are unwanted which is sweet. and work very well..no need to download an app for that

edit: not email

My girl has a Nokia 1020. Sweet, sweet phone. I dig W8, love live tiles. Plus the 1020 camera makes any other phone camera pathetic in comparison.

From a Z30