12-31-12 12:01 AM
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  1. Bold9930's Avatar
    This is a VERY successful fund...They finally saw the value of this play. Should they be listening to iPhone users?...LOL


    Who is new Research in Motion investor Donald Yacktman? | Cantech Letter
    08-11-11 02:59 PM
  2. TechAlberta's Avatar
    Now does Warren Buffett step in?
    08-11-11 03:39 PM
  3. Bold9930's Avatar
    Most likely.

    I don;t think I've ever seen a 20 billion operation with a PE of like 3, and that includes cash in the bank, and being highly profitable. Someone saw the opportunity.
    08-11-11 03:42 PM
  4. TechAlberta's Avatar
    Value investing is about reality, not perception. That reality also includes the fact that RIM is a $20 billion operation, but is a $20 billion operation that was a $6 billion operation just a few years ago...
    08-11-11 03:50 PM
  5. kenshaw's Avatar
    Most likely.

    I don;t think I've ever seen a 20 billion operation with a PE of like 3, and that includes cash in the bank, and being highly profitable. Someone saw the opportunity.
    Why do we always bring up Rim's cash in the bank like they have a lot of it. They have 3 billion. Last I checked Google has 39 billion and Apple 79 billion.

    They bought the stock once it started to hit rock bottom. Sure if it goes up 5-10 dollars a share they are laughing. We all know Rim won't disappear. And if there is a merger or takeover their stock will go up as well. So at this point they can't lose too much.

    Did they buy stock when it was trading as high as 70 per share? No. They waited until it was at 23. Don't make it seem like they believe so much in the company.
    danimalchil and Blacklatino like this.
    08-11-11 03:57 PM
  6. TechAlberta's Avatar
    The best place for a tech company, especially one that is growing like RIM, to put their money is back into the company. RIM's R&D expenditures,as a % of revenue, are nearly triple Apple's over the past two years.

    The only time a company like RIM should even think about a share buyback is when the price is so screamingly obvious. The multiples on RIM's stock were within reason at $70. Low, but within reason. They are now ridiculous.

    And now, $3 billion is not a huge cash position...
    08-11-11 04:06 PM
  7. Raptor007's Avatar
    I read an article about this investor earlier in the week. Clearly given his track record he must have clued in on something everyone else hasn't, RIM has value!!!
    08-11-11 08:48 PM
  8. Bold9930's Avatar
    Why do we always bring up Rim's cash in the bank like they have a lot of it. They have 3 billion. Last I checked Google has 39 billion and Apple 79 billion.

    They bought the stock once it started to hit rock bottom. Sure if it goes up 5-10 dollars a share they are laughing. We all know Rim won't disappear. And if there is a merger or takeover their stock will go up as well. So at this point they can't lose too much.

    Did they buy stock when it was trading as high as 70 per share? No. They waited until it was at 23. Don't make it seem like they believe so much in the company.
    Hmmm, good point, but why do you compare two companies that have business models in advertising and PC's? Need I remind you that RIMM's sole revenue is based on devices and services so I'd say that's good performance for a niche play, eh and a value with a PE in single digits.

    Last I checked Apple produces PC's and music players, and happen to hit a home run with the iPhone (ok great...But they don't have QNX and RIMM just bought a ****load of IP recently). Not sure about Google and what phones they have been successful with? And one more thing that you are clueless about...QNX goes far beyond cell phones my friend. You need to understand the much bigger picture that you obviously have zero insight into.

    And to your buyback comments...Not sure why you are so focused on this angle. They can announce buyback's over a period oh wise one...You know, like dollar cost averaging...Look it up finance genius.

    BTW: When's the last time you've seen Obama using an iPhone?
    Last edited by Bold9930; 08-11-11 at 09:42 PM.
    08-11-11 09:39 PM
  9. TechAlberta's Avatar
    Since we don't find out until after the quarter has ended I wonder how much more he has picked up, or which other value investors have jumped in...Soros?
    08-11-11 09:46 PM
  10. kenshaw's Avatar
    Hmmm, good point, but why do you compare two companies that have business models in advertising and PC's? Need I remind you that RIMM's sole revenue is based on devices and services so I'd say that's good performance for a niche play, eh and a value with a PE in single digits.

    Last I checked Apple produces PC's and music players, and happen to hit a home run with the iPhone (ok great...But they don't have QNX and RIMM just bought a ****load of IP recently). Not sure about Google and what phones they have been successful with? And one more thing that you are clueless about...QNX goes far beyond cell phones my friend. You need to understand the much bigger picture that you obviously have zero insight into.

    And to your buyback comments...Not sure why you are so focused on this angle. They can announce buyback's over a period oh wise one...You know, like dollar cost averaging...Look it up finance genius.

    BTW: When's the last time you've seen Obama using an iPhone?
    Yes QNX makes operating systems for Nasa, automobiles, hospitals and so on. I get it.

    Last time I checked Apple's computer business is about 10% of their profits if that.

    All I stated was they are buying the stock now because it's a win win situation for them, based on where Rim is right now.

    So because the President uses a Blackberry everyone should?
    08-11-11 10:39 PM
  11. TechAlberta's Avatar
    I approach RIM as an investor first. I didn't like it at $130, but to me the bashing has gotten overdone and I like the value premise. Pretty simple. If it goes back to $150 on similar revenue I don't like it anymore.

    As a company, of course, I hope they do extremely well because it will be good for the diversification of Canada's economy, which really needs it. We are way too dependent on natural resources and we will need to move up the value chain.
    08-11-11 10:59 PM
  12. kevinnugent's Avatar
    The Internet is a cruel mistress.
    08-07-12 03:51 AM
  13. torches's Avatar
    Just wanted to note Soros is not primarily a value investor, and Buffett stays away from tech (apart from the odd, predictable business like IBM).

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
    08-07-12 05:11 AM
  14. cgk's Avatar
    Hum..

    Yacktman: Here's the dilemma with it. It has a wide array of outcomes. We felt we had protection, but what happens in a company like this where there's no dividend, the protection is there, it still remains there, but I think people get very nervous about it. I think you have three pieces. You have the cash, you have the patents and you have the embedded base. The real problem is that they've continued to stub themselves in the foot on the new phone, and the concern we've had increasingly about it is that that part then becomes a little bit of an ice cube, particularly the embedded base part which - the other two are pretty clear, and you can clearly there have some worth to sell the patents and the cash obviously, but the embedded base will only stay with you so long if you don't come up with another product that's going to work. They'll switch to Apple or whatever. And this phone better work. They've delayed it what, three or four times now?

    Wilkins: Continuously.

    Yacktman: You're stretching the patience of your embedded base, and it's scary. That's why we have such a tiny position in it, because we just don't have a high level of confidence. But the same $20 of value that was there when we initially looked at it is pretty much $20 of value. It may be slightly less, or may have started a little bit higher.
    and

    So to us, the better approach is the take a small amount of capital with those kinds of situations, whether it be BAC or Research In Motion (RIM). We have a number of them that we've done that over the years, and what happens is if you're wrong, you don't get killed. As a package, they can work out quite nicely, but any one of them could be a disaster.

    Read more: Though It's Scary, Yacktman Funds Add to Research-In-Motion - NASDAQ.com
    08-07-12 05:57 AM
  15. playbookster's Avatar
    The Internet is a cruel mistress.
    What exactly is your purpose in bumping a year old thread?
    08-07-12 08:00 AM
  16. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    What exactly is your purpose in bumping a year old thread?

    That was on me actually. I posted an updated article on this point (see post above yours)
    and referenced this thread also as a "historical" reference. The thread I posted is gone
    (redundant, I suppose).
    kevinnugent likes this.
    08-07-12 08:51 AM
  17. kfh227's Avatar
    Now does Warren Buffett step in?
    Not a chance. Not what he invests in. He doesn't own Apple or MSFT either. Tech changes to quickly. he did invest in IBM but that is because he's reada nnual reports for 20 years. For 20 years, IBM would have a 5 year plan and execute the plan. that's why he is long IBM.... just for the record.
    08-07-12 03:33 PM
  18. ccbs's Avatar
    Well, looking back and knowing what we know now, how was the investment turned out?
    What lesson should be learned here?
    08-07-12 03:45 PM
  19. sam_b77's Avatar
    Well, looking back and knowing what we know now, how was the investment turned out?
    What lesson should be learned here?
    The lesson here is that even seasoned stock market investors can make a wrong call about a company. Which can go both ways. Even to the extent of every analyst shouting about a company dying. No one knows about the future stock market. Everyone is an amateur. Some are lucky and some are not. Just like in Vegas.
    08-07-12 03:58 PM
  20. johnenglish's Avatar
    Yacktman sees RIM as one of those stories where you invest in 10, lose money on 8 but the 2 that make money more than make up for the money lost on the other 8. They're willing to put a bit of money into RIM in hopes that there's a big upside at the same time they realize that they might lose their whole investment.
    08-07-12 04:06 PM
  21. kfh227's Avatar
    The lesson here is that even seasoned stock market investors can make a wrong call about a company. Which can go both ways. Even to the extent of every analyst shouting about a company dying. No one knows about the future stock market. Everyone is an amateur. Some are lucky and some are not. Just like in Vegas.
    There is no lesson yet. Stocks go up and down in the short term for no reason. There is no reason for RIMM to be at $7. This is just at stupid levels when cash, patents, etc are considered. This things hould be in the $10s and I'd bet that it will be by years end.

    No one can time the markets over the long haul. I've had stocks tank badly before recovering, just look at USG for the past 5 years.
    08-07-12 09:20 PM
  22. andrew1953's Avatar
    Rim still have the best O/S of all time,even better than Wimdows 8. With encryption and physical qwerty keyboard,they are still the best social networking,business phone. Keep going RIM,for my money no one else gets close.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
    08-08-12 01:47 AM
  23. njblackberry's Avatar
    There is no lesson yet. Stocks go up and down in the short term for no reason. There is no reason for RIMM to be at $7. This is just at stupid levels when cash, patents, etc are considered. This things hould be in the $10s and I'd bet that it will be by years end.

    No one can time the markets over the long haul. I've had stocks tank badly before recovering, just look at USG for the past 5 years.
    100% correct; that's why the $500mm+ loss is an unrealized loss.
    I think the stock will dip a bit more (after the next quarterly earnings report) and then will start a slow recovery. And it is absurd that it is $7.

    One comment - RIMs decline has been over the last five years. That's not short term - that is almost chronic. It's all up to BB 10, how they market it and can they differentiate it from the pack of other devices. Being great may not be enough. A lot of ifs.
    08-08-12 05:35 AM
  24. playbookster's Avatar
    100% correct; that's why the $500mm+ loss is an unrealized loss.
    I think the stock will dip a bit more (after the next quarterly earnings report) and then will start a slow recovery. And it is absurd that it is $7.

    One comment - RIMs decline has been over the last five years. That's not short term - that is almost chronic. It's all up to BB 10, how they market it and can they differentiate it from the pack of other devices. Being great may not be enough. A lot of ifs.
    What declines were happening 5,4,3 years ago?
    08-08-12 07:57 AM
  25. njblackberry's Avatar
    Stock price collapse:

    8/1/2012 - $7.31
    8/1/2011 - $32.49
    8/1/2010 - $42.84
    8/1/2009 - $73.06

    If anyone had predicted on this board in 2009 that RIM would lose over 90% of the stock price they would have been pilloried. That was long before Yacktman or Prem Watsa began buying.
    amazinglygraceless likes this.
    08-08-12 08:13 AM
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