[cheech73]

If RIM buys Palm, you can kiss both companies good bye. That's a volatile combination that is bound to explode in failure.

i beg to differ, Palm is up for sale for about a billion dollars. RIMM has alot of cash on hand and can wipe there arss with a billion dollars. financially it will not hurt RIMM. Palm's Webos does circles around Rimm's OS. like someone mentioned here, RIMM has great hardware but lacks on software, Palm lacks on hardware but shines on software, i think it would actually be a good thing.

[JRSCCivic98]

RIM won't be buying Palm out. Chances are good whomever buys them will buy them to expand their own phone market in some way. HTC is already in bed with MS and Android, they could buy Palm, but it won't really do anything for them in terms of market expansion. They don't really need it. Dell's already doing their own Android based thing with phones, so that leaves IBM (Lenovo) and HP.... I don't think Lenovo can afford to buy them and hope for market expansion because their laptops aren't all that popular in the consumer market and no one really wants an IBM branded phone. Chances are better for HP to get them and expand into the phone market more. They already have experience with handheld PDA devices and with the popularity of their laptops and new to release Slate pads, it would be a natural progression into what they are trying to do with their market saturation.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[_X_]

It would be a bad move for HTC to buy the Palm. This could break their relationship with Google and MS. RIM stands the most to gain by obtaining an OS like WebOS. It's a great OS with bad hardware. Plus it will really leap them forward to catch up with the newer OS.

But one thing they would really get if they bought the company was contentment developers. While RIM's hardware and services are top notch their software is sub par. Having a solid platform and development community would really help RIM out.

Of course ditching he BBOS and going with Palm would not be so easy for RIM developers, of course they could always port their Java platform and would have 100% portability hm....

=X=

[JRSCCivic98]

The big issue with RIM buying them and moving their OS to it would be the NOC infrastructure... it won't be an easy change to make WebOS work like this in my opinion. I just don't see RIM buying them... unless they're trying to safeguard the market by buying a competing company so that no one else buys them and revives them. That would be the only real reason for them to get it in my opinion.

[Masahiro]

Of course ditching he BBOS and going with Palm would not be so easy for RIM developers

Nor would it be so easy for RIM's customers.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[stuaw11]

Nor would it be so easy for RIM's customers.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

The 2 former major producers of smartphones/OSs have done it- Palm and MS.

They were already on the decline from letting it sit so long, so its hard to say how doing it ahead of the game will impact it. But if BB really is that good and essential- push email and BBM, people will keep using it.

They could in theory keep legacy BBs and make a new consumer OS. they could both have a PIN/BBM and use the NOC and not have to worry about the security portion as much making app development better too. Since BB people argue corporate users dont use the web or apps then it should be a wash if developers develop for the consumer OS and not the old BB legacy OS. (If this is not true then the main BB user argument is debunk that better app development is needed in the process)

Its very possible to do though.

[_StephenBB81]

RIM won't be buying Palm out. Chances are good whomever buys them will buy them to expand their own phone market in some way. HTC is already in bed with MS and Android, they could buy Palm, but it won't really do anything for them in terms of market expansion. They don't really need it. Dell's already doing their own Android based thing with phones, so that leaves IBM (Lenovo) and HP.... I don't think Lenovo can afford to buy them and hope for market expansion because their laptops aren't all that popular in the consumer market and no one really wants an IBM branded phone. Chances are better for HP to get them and expand into the phone market more. They already have experience with handheld PDA devices and with the popularity of their laptops and new to release Slate pads, it would be a natural progression into what they are trying to do with their market saturation.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Just want to Point out Levono, has nothing to do with IBM any more, I believe it was in 2005 that Levono purchased IBM's personal computing division,

I could see Levono purchasing Palm, to expand into a mobile sector, but I do agree, I don't think they have the funds to do a strait purchase, there would have to be some stock swapping or something with current Palm investors,

RIM has no reason to purchase Palm, WebOS would need a full rewrite to work into the Current Blackberry ecosystem, Palm has not real techologies to help advance RIM's business, they would be better buying up small companies with bits of technology, which is exactly what they are doing, just as Microsoft did in the 80's and Apple in the 90's

[_StephenBB81]

The 2 former major producers of smartphones/OSs have done it- Palm and MS.

They were already on the decline from letting it sit so long, so its hard to say how doing it ahead of the game will impact it. But if BB really is that good and essential- push email and BBM, people will keep using it.

They could in theory keep legacy BBs and make a new consumer OS. they could both have a PIN/BBM and use the NOC and not have to worry about the security portion as much making app development better too. Since BB people argue corporate users dont use the web or apps then it should be a wash if developers develop for the consumer OS and not the old BB legacy OS. (If this is not true then the main BB user argument is debunk that better app development is needed in the process)

Its very possible to do though.

I've never seen what it takes to run stuff through the NOC but I suspect it isn't as easy as throwing a switch, and Running a consumer OS and a Business OS would muddy the already muddy waters of Blackberry, we have 20 devices, and 40 OS's ya that is a good platform for developers to evaluate if BB is a profitable venture for app development.

[evilhunter101]

I dont think anyone would buy Palm for whatever large cost then engage in costly patent litigation on top of the purchase price.

I also dont think HTC would even be able to come back in the suit with patents they just acquired through a purchase. That wouldnt be equitable once the suit already began.

I think you are partially right. The suit may have already begun but if HTC bought Palm and all their patents, they could launch a brand new suit against Apple to sort of make them "back off," or at least to encourage a settlement of some kind.

[_X_]

... and Running a consumer OS and a Business OS would muddy the already muddy waters of Blackberry,...

Don't underestimate the WebOS by calling it a Consumer OS. The WebOS is based on Linux, there you have security, extensibility, and reliability. It would not muddy the waters. RIM's strength is on the server side solution, not it's OS. When people talk about what makes a BB device it's always about their server side solutions (e.g. Push mail, optimized mail, Security, Remote managment, security.

When people talk about what doesn't work on RIM, its memory management, web, app support, Development tools.

=X=

[Radius]

Don't underestimate the WebOS by calling it a Consumer OS. The WebOS is based on Linux, there you have security, extensibility, and reliability. It would not muddy the waters. RIM's strength is on the server side solution, not it's OS. When people talk about what makes a BB device it's always about their server side solutions (e.g. Push mail, optimized mail, Security, Remote managment, security.

When people talk about what doesn't work on RIM, its memory management, web, app support, Development tools.

=X=

Firstly, don't blame RIM for memory management issues. There aren't any from their perspective. The issues come about from third party apps and bad coding practices. Nothing RIM can do about that.

I don't deny their API is fragmented and in bad need of some work, but that is fixable and will probably happen for their 6.0 OS. I have seen quite a bit written about that so it will help things along quite a bit. Too bad it wasn't done sooner though.

As for web, that isn't the focus of their platform. This is primarily a business phone so it has less to do with how you surf and more to do with sharing and controlling corporate information. I know the whole mainstream vs. niche argument and as it stands, if you want a web phone then go buy one. If you want a business phone, get this one.

[mahen915]

The big issue with RIM buying them and moving their OS to it would be the NOC infrastructure... it won't be an easy change to make WebOS work like this in my opinion. I just don't see RIM buying them... unless they're trying to safeguard the market by buying a competing company so that no one else buys them and revives them. That would be the only real reason for them to get it in my opinion.

I don't see it happening either. The problem here is with the security software. RIM implements a JVM with it's own highly secure kernel. This infrastructure is what draws so many high government contracts to the platform, and it's also their Achilles Heel. The WebOS kernel is a linux kernel, as is the iPhone and Android. It would be very difficult for such a transformation to be made while maintaining the security of the platform.

[mahen915]

Firstly, don't blame RIM for memory management issues. There aren't any from their perspective. The issues come about from third party apps and bad coding practices. Nothing RIM can do about that.

I don't deny their API is fragmented and in bad need of some work, but that is fixable and will probably happen for their 6.0 OS. I have seen quite a bit written about that so it will help things along quite a bit. Too bad it wasn't done sooner though.

As for web, that isn't the focus of their platform. This is primarily a business phone so it has less to do with how you surf and more to do with sharing and controlling corporate information. I know the whole mainstream vs. niche argument and as it stands, if you want a web phone then go buy one. If you want a business phone, get this one.

I'd blame RIM only because they were very short-sighted in the amount of memory they have been putting in their devices considering the current architecture design they have.

At this point in time, I don't see any technological limitation, hardware or software that can prevent a BlackBerry from catering to both markets while still maintaining their push capabilities, apart from their legacy infrastructure that would need to be adapted. A lot of these arguments are from those that want these capabilities along side media-rich capabilities. If RIM can have these two things co-exist, then they're golden. I don't see anything wrong with wanting a device that can do what it currently does and more. I like the platform because of what it's currently capable of and most of my criticism stems from my desire to see the platform grow. I know they're working on it, but not as fast as we would like.

[Masahiro]

The 2 former major producers of smartphones/OSs have done it- Palm and MS

Hardly. They barely has a customer base that would be put at risk with an OS overhaul. They had to change out of neccessity, not just because they wanted to.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Jude526]

oil and water don't mix don't think it would be good to see RIM buy Palm

[_StephenBB81]

Don't underestimate the WebOS by calling it a Consumer OS. The WebOS is based on Linux, there you have security, extensibility, and reliability. It would not muddy the waters. RIM's strength is on the server side solution, not it's OS. When people talk about what makes a BB device it's always about their server side solutions (e.g. Push mail, optimized mail, Security, Remote managment, security.

When people talk about what doesn't work on RIM, its memory management, web, app support, Development tools.

=X=

IF you read what I was replying to, stuaw11 suggested running 2 OS's a legacy OS and a Consumer OS, I was saying it wasn't feesable, I was not downgrading what a WebOS could be.

AND just because it is Built on linux does not natively make it stable, and secure, I know many long time linux people jumping into the BSD world because linux has become so fragmented is it killing itself internally.

I'd blame RIM only because they were very short-sighted in the amount of memory they have been putting in their devices considering the current architecture design they have.

At this point in time, I don't see any technological limitation, hardware or software that can prevent a BlackBerry from catering to both markets while still maintaining their push capabilities, apart from their legacy infrastructure that would need to be adapted. A lot of these arguments are from those that want these capabilities along side media-rich capabilities. If RIM can have these two things co-exist, then they're golden. I don't see anything wrong with wanting a device that can do what it currently does and more. I like the platform because of what it's currently capable of and most of my criticism stems from my desire to see the platform grow. I know they're working on it, but not as fast as we would like.

RIM's "Sight" is probably on the 2 year model, and the majority of the target market 256MB of onboard memory, and expandable memory slots is more than enough, heck I'm a power user and on both my phones even the curve, I am not near maxing out my onboard memory, though I really would like a second SD card slot, as 16Gb can get pretty tight sometimes with presentations, product videos, and pod casts.


I can see software limitations when having to comply to security standards, as well as maintaining backwards compatibility, Corporate america isn't about to update there BES because of new phones, the smaller customers will need to update to a NEW BES first, then after X number of months, big companies do, we're talking about infrastructure that sales guys are quoting on 2 year rollouts. when you have to worry about that stuff, you take it slow, and try and do it right, clearly when the rushed to the consumer market with the Storm, they did it poorly, I hope they don't do that with the OS

[JRSCCivic98]

Just want to Point out Levono, has nothing to do with IBM any more, I believe it was in 2005 that Levono purchased IBM's personal computing division,

Granted, but no one really separated the two. When you talk about Lenovo ThinkPads, people still relate to them as "IBM" ThinkPads... In the IT industry, they'll always be under that umbrella no matter who really owns them. That's what I mean to say... or rather imply.

[MrObvious]

I'd blame RIM only because they were very short-sighted in the amount of memory they have been putting in their devices considering the current architecture design they have.

At this point in time, I don't see any technological limitation, hardware or software that can prevent a BlackBerry from catering to both markets while still maintaining their push capabilities, apart from their legacy infrastructure that would need to be adapted. A lot of these arguments are from those that want these capabilities along side media-rich capabilities. If RIM can have these two things co-exist, then they're golden. I don't see anything wrong with wanting a device that can do what it currently does and more. I like the platform because of what it's currently capable of and most of my criticism stems from my desire to see the platform grow. I know they're working on it, but not as fast as we would like.

I think this hit the nail in the head. Blackberrys aren't known for media just because they aren't designed for it, yet they are capable of a bit of it. However to convert their lineup to more media friendly devices while still retaining their basis as a powerful messaging core, it wouldn't take much more than just making a few changes such as slight modifications to the design of the OS, more onboard storage for MP3s, support for more formats and better integration with different outlets, and a better browser and interface to support it. I can see the slider just working assuming the OS works just right because it will combine the two things that people generally want in high end smartphones: screens and keyboards. That's what makes the Touch Pro 2 so popular now.

That said, give me a better browser and a better way for programmers to develop apps for the OS, and I think BB will improve even more.

[mahen915]

I think this hit the nail in the head. Blackberrys aren't known for media just because they aren't designed for it, yet they are capable of a bit of it. However to convert their lineup to more media friendly devices while still retaining their basis as a powerful messaging core, it wouldn't take much more than just making a few changes such as slight modifications to the design of the OS, more onboard storage for MP3s, support for more formats and better integration with different outlets, and a better browser and interface to support it. I can see the slider just working assuming the OS works just right because it will combine the two things that people generally want in high end smartphones: screens and keyboards. That's what makes the Touch Pro 2 so popular now.

That said, give me a better browser and a better way for programmers to develop apps for the OS, and I think BB will improve even more.

The fact of the matter is, no one can say that RIM doesn't need to cater to those markets or they don't need to change anything. They second they put out a Storm they made it very clear they were going after the same market other platforms are going after with touch screen devices. Those with 9700s that say the platform doesn't need to change, fine. It plays nice with the 9700. But don't come out with a Storm 1 and Storm 2 and pretend that the same platform powering the "solely for business" 9700 is going to power the Storm devices.

[fabuloso]

*Yawn* Opera Mini for iPhone/iPod Touch = Game Over. I could care less about RIM, PALM or Android. Happy trails suckers.

[_StephenBB81]

Granted, but no one really separated the two. When you talk about Lenovo ThinkPads, people still relate to them as "IBM" ThinkPads... In the IT industry, they'll always be under that umbrella no matter who really owns them. That's what I mean to say... or rather imply.

Thats painting the IT industry pretty broadly,

the fact I vaguely remember the buy out says that it was news enough, and really news to ONLY the tech savvy, crowd, and in the Event Lenovo purchased Palm and was producing smart phones it would be the targeted consumer market they'd have to chase, being non IT personal, I'd be surprised if the 18-25 demographic would associate Lenovo ThinkPad to IBM ThinkPad.

[JRSCCivic98]

Thats painting the IT industry pretty broadly,

the fact I vaguely remember the buy out says that it was news enough, and really news to ONLY the tech savvy, crowd, and in the Event Lenovo purchased Palm and was producing smart phones it would be the targeted consumer market they'd have to chase, being non IT personal, I'd be surprised if the 18-25 demographic would associate Lenovo ThinkPad to IBM ThinkPad.

Actually you'd be surprised how many people think they are IBMs.... The ThinkPads still look the same and most of that demographic remember their parents having them for work. Lenovo will need to go into a different design phase to change that. They've done that with "some" of their lines, but the tech end of it all is... they still suck in the same way IBMs did when they were still IBM.

They can try their hand in the mobile market, but I don't think they stand any better of a chance of penetration then Dell does at this point. The mobile market is one of "do you have something special"... if not, no one will care. I hate to say it, but Apple already plucked that carrot and ran away with it in 2007.