1. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Then I look forward to the following strain: an iOS or Android phone with a properly functioning Hub, a physical keyboard, and a sophisticated, gesture-based OS.


    Posted via CB10
    Oddly, I just posted a new thread about Google working with BlackBerry on a better Hub for Android. I won't be shameless and link, but if you have any thoughts to contribute, tit for tat.

    I wouldn't look too forward to a PKB on Android or iOS anytime soon though.
    04-07-16 07:39 PM
  2. ljfong's Avatar
    Then I look forward to the following strain: an iOS or Android phone with a properly functioning Hub, a physical keyboard, and a sophisticated, gesture-based OS.

    Posted via CB10
    If enough people clamor for those, they will be there. The smartphone business is a world of survival of the fittest, kinda like how nature and evolution work. Meego, Firefox OS, Windows Mobile, PalmOS, WebOS, etc did not survive and eventually went away. BlackBerry 10 is on the verge of going away along with the hardware division of BlackBerry Inc. iOS and Android are fighting and keeping each other on their respective toes. The moment Apple slips up with iOS, I mean truly slipping in a colossal way BlackBerry did, Google will come in for the kill with Android. The other way around is true as well.
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-07-16 08:38 PM
  3. donnation's Avatar
    Then I look forward to the following strain: an iOS or Android phone with a properly functioning Hub, a physical keyboard, and a sophisticated, gesture-based OS.


    Posted via CB10
    Why, because YOU think that's what will make a good "strain?" What if the general public doesn't want or need those things, or doesn't deem them important enough to have on a smartphone? And an "elegant OS" is purely an opinion anyway.

    Again, I'll ask you the question: Was it ok when Blackberry was dominating the smartphone world and most people chose to live in their "monoculture" society? Why wasn't Handspring's Treo's allowed to live on and exist? Or Sony-Ericsson's smartphones. Or Nokia? Your question is basing an argument on "why can't companies just make stuff that goes on forever even if only a few people like it and buy it," which lends itself to not really understanding how a company turns a profit and stays in business.
    04-07-16 09:16 PM
  4. willy1977's Avatar
    It seems like pple are confusing the issue: the monoculture exists (as described) because of BlackBerry's failures, not a problem with consumers (IMO).

    Survival of the fittest is still the common denominator, I just think that as consumers, bb10 is a viable option with a huge mountain to climb. Chen: get out your pocket book, pay app developers, do what you have to do, and give yourself a 5yr plan to reinvigorate the handset business because all that's left is ****, or really ****. IMO.

    Thanks for reading.

    Posted with a Passport for Productivity
    MikeX74 and TgeekB like this.
    04-07-16 09:59 PM
  5. thurask's Avatar
    Well, if we're still abusing this biology metaphor, consider this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen_hypothesis

    The Red Queen hypothesis, also referred to as Red Queen's, Red Queen's race or the Red Queen Effect, is an evolutionary hypothesis which proposes that organisms must constantly adapt, evolve, and proliferate not merely to gain reproductive advantage, but also simply to survive while pitted against ever-evolving opposing organisms in an ever-changing environment....
    As has been noted by anyone with at least half a brain, BlackBerry has not been constantly adapting, evolving and proliferating for the past several years, rather resting on their laurels until they irrevocably fell behind. The rest of the ecosystem sees no reason to keep the old, slow, evolutionary unfit beast around just because getting rid of it would hurt someone's feelings. Investors and Chen saw no reason to keep the beast as-is and watch it die, rather transitioning it into a slimmer creature that at least has niches it can survive in. While that makes some people angry, it is better as a whole to have a surviving company and some angry schmucks on a message board instead of no company and some angry schmucks on a message board.

    And, as has been said, how come your heart isn't bleeding for WebOS, Bada, Symbian and all of the other evolutionary dead-ends? Surely they have as much of a right to exist.
    04-08-16 12:18 AM
  6. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    I don't think he could kill it...
    I think it really was a better decision not to kill it instantly. Chens main mistakes concering the handset division are
    a) the BB10 devices that came to market in his era. Either a totally weird form factor (Passport) (Yes I know it was developed under Heins, but everyone except the diehards knew that a phone like this wouldn't sell, he should have better scraped this one instead of the Z30 successor) or old stuff in new housings (Leap, Classic) totally overpriced. Because of this BB wasn't able to keep hardware sales on a sustainable level.
    b) the Priv. Too many problems, too expensive.

    it would be interesting to know how long after he came on board they started working on Android.
    They started having talks with Google in January 2014, only a short time after he was hired (November 2013)
    Inside BlackBerry's last-ditch plan to win you back with Android - CNET
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-08-16 05:28 AM
  7. Houshinto's Avatar
    Yeah for as much as people say they want choice, they are more likely to go with the herd. This is especially the case when it has come to smartphones.

    Posted via CB10
    Oshasat likes this.
    04-08-16 06:12 AM
  8. Ronindan's Avatar
    Yeah for as much as people say they want choice, they are more likely to go with the herd. This is especially the case when it has come to smartphones.

    Posted via CB10
    Its odd that this was not a problem when BB was on the top of the smartphone space.
    04-08-16 07:12 AM
  9. TgeekB's Avatar
    Its odd that this was not a problem when BB was on the top of the smartphone space.
    Some people conveniently forget that. It was OK when it was Blackberry, now it's not. Odd.
    04-08-16 08:06 AM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Yeah for as much as people say they want choice, they are more likely to go with the herd. This is especially the case when it has come to smartphones.

    Posted via CB10
    Is the herd following, or just all going in the same direction?
    04-08-16 08:27 AM
  11. MikeX74's Avatar
    Yeah for as much as people say they want choice, they are more likely to go with the herd. This is especially the case when it has come to smartphones.

    Posted via CB10
    I was wondering when someone would drudge this foolishness up again. It's so funny to see how things have changed. When the so-called "herd mentality" meant buying BlackBerry's, it was accepted and lauded, but now that the market has largely abandoned BB and its devices, it's used as an excuse as to why. It puzzles me to see so many people make excuses for a company that failed to evolve when the industry around it did.
    04-08-16 09:03 AM
  12. TgeekB's Avatar
    I was wondering when someone would drudge this foolishness up again. It's so funny to see how things have changed. When the so-called "herd mentality" meant buying BlackBerry's, it was accepted and lauded, but now that the market has largely abandoned BB and its devices, it's used as an excuse as to why. It puzzles me to see so many people make excuses for a company that failed to evolve when the industry around it did.
    Hit the nail on the head.
    anon(9742832) likes this.
    04-08-16 09:13 AM
  13. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    Some people conveniently forget that. It was OK when it was Blackberry, now it's not. Odd.
    Dam right!.............hey this is the new norm.........all is OK as long as you agree with me!..........When BlackBerry was the only game in town and the phone to have.it was great. One question how many of you bought BB phones then? My company and I have been a long term BB purchaser. Not a new comer whining about the market and how unfair things are, BB had its chance and arrogance killed it off. Plain and simple!

    WOOF!
    04-08-16 09:28 AM
  14. Witmen's Avatar
    Dam right!.............hey this is the new norm.........all is OK as long as you agree with me!..........When BlackBerry was the only game in town and the phone to have.it was great. One question how many of you bought BB phones then? My company and I have been a long term BB purchaser. Not a new comer whining about the market and how unfair things are, BB had its chance and arrogance killed it off. Plain and simple!

    WOOF!
    The first BlackBerry I owned is pictured in my avatar. It is the 7250, which was released 11 years ago. Back in 2005, the smartphone world was anything but great. It was terrible. The 7250 was a terrible smartphone, but it was the best there was at the time.

    Thankfully Apple and then Google came along and completely changed the smartphone industry. Just think, the first iPhone came out only a couple years after my 7250 did. I hate to think what smartphones would be like today if it wasn't for Apple.

    If it wasn't for Apple and Google, BlackBerry would still be getting away with putting out crap devices, and charging way too much for them.

    Full disclosure: I've never owned a single Apple product in my entire life. Doubt I ever will, but I am very thankful for what Apple did to smartphones with the iPhone.
    TgeekB and JeepBB like this.
    04-08-16 11:20 AM
  15. Oshasat's Avatar
    It seems like pple are confusing the issue: the monoculture exists (as described) because of BlackBerry's failures, not a problem with consumers (IMO).

    Survival of the fittest is still the common denominator, I just think that as consumers, bb10 is a viable option with a huge mountain to climb. Chen: get out your pocket book, pay app developers, do what you have to do, and give yourself a 5yr plan to reinvigorate the handset business because all that's left is ****, or really ****. IMO.

    Thanks for reading.

    Posted with a Passport for Productivity
    Much appreciated. At least there's a solution at the bottom of your message. And yes, BlackBerry made a series of terrible decisions, to put it mildly. That, and it's corporate culture was fairly toxic; I'm thinking of the airplane incident where a couple of execs made drunken fools of themselves, so by all means dump on BlackBerry of old...

    But it's 2016, and the new BB10 phones have performed comparatively well and fill a need niche market for some. The point that many here have made is that 'some' is too small a number in a market full of options, and that profit is the only requirement for survival. But that ignores the fact that the marketplace does, in fact, support many niche products (I won't list them here) and Chen has already announced a quite achievable break-even point of 3 million units per year.

    So why object to the survival of another species? What I read here is a fairly high degree of intolerance for a diverse ecosystem. Let the BlackBerry platypus live on in peace and hit that quite achievable 3 million mark.

    Posted via CB10
    04-08-16 12:02 PM
  16. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    But it's 2016, and the new BB10 phones have performed comparatively well
    Compared to what?
    04-08-16 12:16 PM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Much appreciated. At least there's a solution at the bottom of your message. And yes, BlackBerry made a series of terrible decisions, to put it mildly. That, and it's corporate culture was fairly toxic; I'm thinking of the airplane incident where a couple of execs made drunken fools of themselves, so by all means dump on BlackBerry of old...

    But it's 2016, and the new BB10 phones have performed comparatively well and fill a need niche market for some. The point that many here have made is that 'some' is too small a number in a market full of options, and that profit is the only requirement for survival. But that ignores the fact that the marketplace does, in fact, support many niche products (I won't list them here) and Chen has already announced a quite achievable break-even point of 3 million units per year.

    So why object to the survival of another species? What I read here is a fairly high degree of intolerance for a diverse ecosystem. Let the BlackBerry platypus live on in peace and hit that quite achievable 3 million mark.

    Posted via CB10
    10 Million was an achievable mark too... or at least it seemed.

    Think it really comes down to what more BlackBerry can do to Android to make it really secure enough for the "niche" that they currently are selling too. If they can offer BlackPhone level security, then they might as well do like Silent Circle and sell devices with high margins, directly to their enterprise customers. And that should allow them for a while keep some form of hardware division going.

    Because I don't see the PRIV selling more devices six months after it's launch than it did during the launch. And I don't see them being able to sell devices as they are today with mid-grade specs and keeping that $315 ASP. Based on current sales I wonder how many carriers would bother with another BlackBerry device?
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-08-16 12:24 PM
  18. filanto's Avatar
    Why can't Ford buyers welcome the tried and true Pinto platform in 2016? They were very popular in the late 70s, after all.

    Why can't Apple fans embrace the 9" monochrome CRT model that made the Macintosh famous?

    Almost everyone agreed that plasma TVs had the best picture quality. Why aren't those available from any manufacturer anymore?

    The reality is that technology advances, and the market dictates what works and what doesn't. Many factors play into those decisions, including specs, price, style, usability, versatility, brand image, and more.

    The Pinto can't sell because it's mechanically ancient. Same with the OG Mac. Plasmas didn't sell because they were more expensive to make, were bigger and heavier, used a ton more power and generated a ton of heat. And PKB phones don't sell because virtually everyone prefers an all-touch smartphone in 2016.

    And no matter how successful a product or form factor once was, once the mass market starts moving away from it, sooner or later (usually sooner) it will reach a point where it's no longer profitable to make that product in the low volumes that it can be expected to sell. The Catch-22 is that to make a low-volume product viable, you need to be able to charge a lot for it, but even the people who want one usually wont' pay the higher price when a similar (but less desirable for them) product exists at a lower price.

    The free market is a brutal place. Today's winners are tomorrow's losers, which is why you have to see the trends before they arrive (and hopefully SET them), because if you don't, you get left behind, QUICKLY. And that's exactly what happened to BB.
    Plasmas are definitely more expensive to build and are not as bright as other technologies. But if you have migraine prone family members they are great because of the higher refresh rate like mine at 600 mhz. We got ourselves a 50 inch LG for $800 4-5 years ago actually was cheaper than most others in the size.

    Posted via CB10
    04-08-16 12:25 PM
  19. redbirdsfan's Avatar
    Problem was BB10 didn't have an ecosystem to accept.... there are many problems with BB10 and BlackBerry in general that prevented them from being able to capture the attention of consumers.

    You're just trying to put this into some box called monoculture so you can understand it..... doesn't mono mean one?

    The blame for BlackBerry's failures lies with BlackBerry, not society.
    I agree 100%. As a consumer I'd be taking a step back by purchasing a bb10 device.
    04-08-16 12:32 PM
  20. TGR1's Avatar
    So why object to the survival of another species? What I read here is a fairly high degree of intolerance for a diverse ecosystem. Let the BlackBerry platypus live on in peace and hit that quite achievable 3 million mark.
    Posted via CB10
    Not to be personal but your attempts at ecological analogies for a business case are ... peculiar at best and really off the mark at worst. It makes any sort of reasonable discussion impossible.
    04-08-16 01:26 PM
  21. donnation's Avatar
    OP I gotta be honest with you. Most of what you've written makes very little sense. People aren't crying out for Blackberry to die anymore than they are crying out for the extinction of an animal (although the two analogies make zero sense). If Blackberry wants it to live on, it will. It has nothing to do with anything you've written.
    04-08-16 01:33 PM
  22. filanto's Avatar
    Not to be personal but your attempts at ecological analogies for a business case are ... peculiar at best and really off the mark at worst. It makes any sort of reasonable discussion impossible.
    Time for some platypus burgers this animal just can't survive in the wild anymore

    Posted via CB10
    Oshasat likes this.
    04-08-16 01:40 PM
  23. Jerry A's Avatar
    Are you referring to the vast array of choices between iOS and Android slabphones? THAT'S the monoculture I'm referring to. I'm trying to avoid rehashing the corporate foul-ups that began around 2007 because those have been done to death in these forums. I'd like to focus on consumer acceptance, and why it is that in 2016 we can't simply welcome a variety of form factors and operating systems. The history is interesting, but it's not the whole story.

    Posted via CB10
    The why is simple. People don't want to waste their hard-earned money on a device that doesn't meet their needs.
    04-08-16 01:58 PM
  24. Oshasat's Avatar
    OP I gotta be honest with you. Most of what you've written makes very little sense. People aren't crying out for Blackberry to die anymore than they are crying out for the extinction of an animal (although the two analogies make zero sense). If Blackberry wants it to live on, it will. It has nothing to do with anything you've written.
    I can see that most of what I've written has elicited your disagreement, but it doesn't make what I've written 'wrong' across the board.

    And why does the "survival of the fittest" analogy I've read for so many years on CB make any _more_ sense than my 'ecosystem' analogy? I've even seen it used repeatedly in this thread, LOL.

    Posted via CB10
    04-08-16 02:36 PM
  25. donnation's Avatar
    I can see that most of what I've written has elicited your disagreement, but it doesn't make what I've written 'wrong' across the board.

    And why does the "survival of the fittest" analogy I've read for so many years on CB make any _more_ sense than my 'ecosystem' analogy? I've even seen it used repeatedly in this thread, LOL.

    Posted via CB10
    A. I didn't say you were wrong, I said it didn't make sense to me.

    B. People are using "survival of the fittest" analogy because it falls in line with your analogy of "ecosystems."
    04-08-16 02:45 PM
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