04-11-16 09:22 AM
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  1. TGR1's Avatar
    Are you referring to the vast array of choices between iOS and Android slabphones? THAT'S the monoculture I'm referring to. I'm trying to avoid rehashing the corporate foul-ups that began around 2007 because those have been done to death in these forums. I'd like to focus on consumer acceptance, and why it is that in 2016 we can't simply welcome a variety of form factors and operating systems. The history is interesting, but it's not the whole story.

    Posted via CB10
    Still not a monoculture. Superficially look alike but you can generally tell them apart and they definitely work differently. Specs, prices, capabilities — quite a range to enjoy.

    Not sure why BBRY's inability to compete is the public's fault. The majority of consumers just aren't interested. They aren't consciously preventing you from enjoying your OS of choice. Sorry your choice isn't popular but that's consumer electronics for you. Nothing more profound than that.

    You are right that the reasons for BBRY's fall from has been rehashed here many times but dismissing it won't change history. What is the "whole story" as you put it?
    04-06-16 09:42 PM
  2. donnation's Avatar
    What is the "whole story" as you put it?
    You know, the usual conspiracy theories that are thrown around in here.
    TGR1, DrBoomBotz, Ronindan and 3 others like this.
    04-06-16 10:02 PM
  3. thurask's Avatar
    And house being on fire, Chen put it on fire, there was nothing wrong with the house though!
    My thoughts on the BlackBerry Q2 results released this morning | CrackBerry.com

    Yes, obviously. A billion in the red before Chen shows up is no big deal.
    04-07-16 01:03 AM
  4. Uzi's Avatar
    My thoughts on the BlackBerry Q2 results released this morning | CrackBerry.com

    Yes, obviously. A billion in the red before Chen shows up is no big deal.
    Holly cow 2 years ago! Lol
    04-07-16 02:40 AM
  5. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Some people seem to forget (or never knew) that BB10 nearly died in fall 2013 when Heins was fired...
    They should thank Chen for not killing it instantly instead of holding him responsible for the mistakes that were already made that put BB in this situation.
    web99, JeepBB and DaDaDogg like this.
    04-07-16 02:41 AM
  6. thurask's Avatar
    Holly cow 2 years ago! Lol
    Yet apparently those are the good old days.
    Uzi, Ronindan, TGR1 and 1 others like this.
    04-07-16 02:45 AM
  7. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Some people seem to forget (or never knew) that BB10 nearly died in fall 2013 when Heins was fired...
    They should thank Chen for not killing it instantly instead of holding him responsible for the mistakes that were already made that put BB in this situation.
    I don't think he could kill it... it's not like software was making much money and wasn't tied to hardware. Chen needed these last two years to build what he has.... of course it would be interesting to know how long after he came on board they started working on Android.
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-07-16 07:41 AM
  8. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Isn't the mini Cooper now a niche "high end " market, isn't the VW Beetle in the same segment? What is old eventually becomes "new" again . Consumer products are cyclical ,once you have the right timing you can make a comeback. BlackBerry needs to buckle up and look at the long term, BlackBerry 10 needs to remain in production /development after all ,their former acronym was" Research In Motion". BlackBerry 10 was and is the BEST OS on the market and eventually it would get the recognition it deserves.

    Posted via CB10
    Oshasat and TCB on Z10 like this.
    04-07-16 07:59 AM
  9. Soulstream's Avatar
    Well the world seems to be fine with Windows, MacOSX and some small linux distros in the desktop space and the world kept on moving. The movile market is moving in the same direction with Android, iOS and Windows phone and for 99.9% of people the world will keep on moving.
    04-07-16 08:52 AM
  10. Oshasat's Avatar
    Why can't Blackberry make a phone that appeals to consumers and that would want to buy it?
    You miss my point, BlackBerry APPEALS to this consumer, and many others (albeit not enough). For years now I have repeatedly tried to write on my 8-inch tablet (and I once owned an HTC), but it's a task that's so much more difficult...I hate typing on glass and it actually affects the length and complexity of my messages.

    Far from being archaic, this form factor (Passport, Q10, etc) works wonderfully for my purposes. Contrary to those who claim that BlackBerry is a horse-drawn carriage, I find the competition doesn't match.

    Back to my original question: aside from the history of bad decisions, now that we're living with a relatively decent OS and pkb/Hub, why not simply let BlackBerry coexist alongside the ocean of competition? I maintain that there's room for them. Let a thousand (divergent) flowers bloom...

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-16 09:57 AM
  11. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Apart from the need to take advantage of economies of scale in order to turn a profit, I have noticed the often-used argument on CB forums that (based on consumer sales) Blackberry is a 'bad' hardware company because they're not selling enough handsets.

    But is that the only criteria we should use when judging what's 'good' 'of worth' or value?*

    Likewise, the argument that "most people" don't want/use/need a particular feature found in BlackBerry (physical keyboards, Hub, call quality, etc.) is too-often cited as a reason that BlackBerry hardware should die a fast death.*

    I've also noticed that this is an attitude often found in many societies*(western, industrial)*at large. The acceptance of one (idea, viewpoint, brand, product, etc.) translates into the rejection of *everything* else.*

    Some writers have labeled it a "monoculture." That is the tendency to deride, defame or diminish a desire to simultaneously maintain a divergence of competing or contradictory views -- or in this case, consumer products. Hence, the emergence of a single, overriding, and dominant culture.*

    iPhones and Samsung for all: other alternatives must die. A monoculture.

    I witnessed this when CDs were introduced and my collection of vinyl was laughed at, despite my CD collection being equally large. As I said, acceptance of one seems to call for the rejection of all else. It's as though we can't juggle two or more thoughts or preferences simultaneously.*

    Rock and Roll rises, and jazz dies. Blue jeans go from rejected to accepted and become the dominant 'uniform' for generations.*It's all or nothing.*

    Whether it's jeans, running shoes, political views, musical tastes, etc., the popular tendency is to go 'all in' and vehemently deny any alternative 'ways of being'.

    Why can't we simply accept an ecosystem that contains a multiplicity of ideas, tastes, products?

    Posted via CB10
    because Android users have to tell you how dumb you are for using an iphone and vice versa
    04-07-16 10:04 AM
  12. donnation's Avatar
    why not simply let BlackBerry coexist alongside the ocean of competition? I maintain that there's room for them. Let a thousand (divergent) flowers bloom...

    Posted via CB10
    Are you asking us or Blackberry this question? None of your points are making any sense or logic despite how intellectual you are trying to make them sound. The only entity saying that BB cannot co-exist is Blackberry. Consumers have a choice of what to buy, and it hasn't been Blackberry do to a multitude or reasons that have been beaten to death in here, not the least of which is BB's awful way it's treated its customers.

    Why didn't Palm survive? Can't they co-exist too? Why did the Zune fail? Can't it co-exist too? Honestly it sounds like a bunch of crying on why you feel it isn't fair that Blackberry is most likely abandoning BB10. Take it up with them, not the consumer.
    Last edited by donnation; 04-07-16 at 05:25 PM.
    04-07-16 10:14 AM
  13. MrGlenn's Avatar
    As a Biologist, monocultures are not necessarily bad as long as they are properly curated. Every now and then you can introduce a new strain and even though it's likely that new strain is outcompeted, its best qualities can be absorbed into the existing strain and improve the monoculture's genetic makeup.

    BlackBerry 10, CB10 signed.
    Last edited by MrGlenn; 04-07-16 at 12:52 PM.
    Ronindan, donnation and TGR1 like this.
    04-07-16 10:16 AM
  14. TgeekB's Avatar
    You miss my point, BlackBerry APPEALS to this consumer, and many others (albeit not enough). For years now I have repeatedly tried to write on my 8-inch tablet (and I once owned an HTC), but it's a task that's so much more difficult...I hate typing on glass and it actually affects the length and complexity of my messages.

    Far from being archaic, this form factor (Passport, Q10, etc) works wonderfully for my purposes. Contrary to those who claim that BlackBerry is a horse-drawn carriage, I find the competition doesn't match.

    Back to my original question: aside from the history of bad decisions, now that we're living with a relatively decent OS and pkb/Hub, why not simply let BlackBerry coexist alongside the ocean of competition? I maintain that there's room for them. Let a thousand (divergent) flowers bloom...

    Posted via CB10
    Why don't you ask Blackberry that? It doesn't affect us at all.
    04-07-16 10:18 AM
  15. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    As a Biologist, monocultures are not necessarily bad as long as they are properly curated. Every now and then you can introduce a new strain and even though it's likely that new strain is outcompeted, it's best qualities can be absorbed into the existing strain and improve the monoculture's genetic makeup.
    A surprisingly apt metaphor.
    MrGlenn and Ronindan like this.
    04-07-16 10:53 AM
  16. MrGlenn's Avatar
    A surprisingly apt metaphor.
    Seeing as OP chose the term it felt appropriate.

    BlackBerry 10, CB10 signed.
    04-07-16 10:55 AM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Back to my original question: aside from the history of bad decisions, now that we're living with a relatively decent OS and pkb/Hub, why not simply let BlackBerry coexist alongside the ocean of competition? I maintain that there's room for them. Let a thousand (divergent) flowers bloom...
    Because BB10 costs a massive amount of money to maintain and to move forward, and the fewer buyers, the more money is lost. As of a year ago, BB was losing about $100 per phone sold. With today's volumes, that would be higher still.

    BB isn't a charity - they can't continue to lose money because a few people want BB10 phones - that's not how business works.
    04-07-16 11:23 AM
  18. Ronindan's Avatar
    You miss my point, BlackBerry APPEALS to this consumer, and many others (albeit not enough). For years now I have repeatedly tried to write on my 8-inch tablet (and I once owned an HTC), but it's a task that's so much more difficult...I hate typing on glass and it actually affects the length and complexity of my messages.

    Far from being archaic, this form factor (Passport, Q10, etc) works wonderfully for my purposes. Contrary to those who claim that BlackBerry is a horse-drawn carriage, I find the competition doesn't match.

    Back to my original question: aside from the history of bad decisions, now that we're living with a relatively decent OS and pkb/Hub, why not simply let BlackBerry coexist alongside the ocean of competition? I maintain that there's room for them. Let a thousand (divergent) flowers bloom...

    Posted via CB10
    If you personally want blackberry to keep making the phones you want. Just send them a billion dollars on a regular basis to keep them afloat
    DrBoomBotz, TGR1 and JeepBB like this.
    04-07-16 11:36 AM
  19. ubizmo's Avatar
    Back to my original question: aside from the history of bad decisions, now that we're living with a relatively decent OS and pkb/Hub, why not simply let BlackBerry coexist alongside the ocean of competition? I maintain that there's room for them. Let a thousand (divergent) flowers bloom...
    BB10 hasn't failed because consumers have decided not to allow it to coexist. I don't think consumers on iOS or Android care what happens to BB10, if they know it exists at all. In fact, it's the same for the other technologies you mentioned. When people stopped buying vinyl records I really don't think they demanded an end to them. They simply moved on, and the numbers of people who wanted to continue to buy vinyl just weren't enough to keep it going.

    That said, app developers do have an interest in there being fewer platforms--ideally just one. It costs them money to build and maintain apps for several different platforms. They'd prefer not to spend that money, since it's their main overhead cost. If anyone can be accused of not wanting a thousand platforms to bloom, it's the developers. If some of the big-name app developers had been willing to build BB10 versions of their wares from the start, it's at least possible that BB10 would be in a different place today. The coattail effect of those high profile apps would pull in many more. But that didn't happen because the only real beneficiary in that scenario would have been BlackBerry. For the developers, it was money out the window. What's in it for them to help BB10 to tread water? Nothing. The sooner BB10 users get frustrated and move to iOS or Android, the better off the developers are.

    And unfortunately, we see the same thing playing out on WP. I'd love to see Microsoft turn that around, but it doesn't appear to be happening.
    04-07-16 11:49 AM
  20. Yatezy's Avatar
    Back to my original question: aside from the history of bad decisions, now that we're living with a relatively decent OS and pkb/Hub, why not simply let BlackBerry coexist alongside the ocean of competition? I maintain that there's room for them. Let a thousand (divergent) flowers bloom...

    Posted via CB10
    Because setting fire to their money for warmth would be a better use of cash than throwing it on BB10 and likely Android.

    You're correct that competition is good. But companies don't survival on good will and the prays of their customers, they stay alive by bringing in cold hard cash. The hardware division is more like a tumour to Blackberry now and it's looking like they need to get rid of it to survive.

    Going out on their shield maybe heroic to us but the people who want a return on their money won't see it like that.
    TGR1 and JeepBB like this.
    04-07-16 01:12 PM
  21. Witmen's Avatar
    This site just keeps getting stranger and stranger as more BB10 fans struggle through the grieving process. It reminds me so much of the way things were when WebOS was in its final days.

    Not gonna lie, it is fascinating and etertaining to witness.

    At the end of the day BB10 had ample amounts of time to catch on and become successful. For a multitude of reasons already discussed on this site, it did not. Blaming the massive failure of BB10 on consumers is a bit pathetic.
    DrBoomBotz, TgeekB, TGR1 and 7 others like this.
    04-07-16 04:14 PM
  22. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    You need another hobby. Not one point is correct though, BlackBerry lost the war by forgetting the small battles are important. Plain and simple they had a golden chance and arrogance did them in, no need for the bloviating. Plain and simple.

    Woof!
    jas1978 likes this.
    04-07-16 05:03 PM
  23. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    OP, you could ask the same thing of Windows Phone for mobile (not looking good at this point, imho). Same with the desktop - Microsoft rules, OS X is a distant second and Linux is basically non-existent in the consumer market. As noted by Troy (?) at some point on the forums, as the market matures you see a weeding out of companies and choices. And BlackBerry is for profit not a charity, so they're not going to take a loss indefinitely in hardware.

    As for the Apple / Samsung monoculture, people follow trends (it's human nature) and advertising does work - I wouldn't say Samsung makes the best Android device on the market personally, but they certainly sell the most.
    04-07-16 05:58 PM
  24. Oshasat's Avatar
    As a Biologist, monocultures are not necessarily bad as long as they are properly curated. Every now and then you can introduce a new strain and even though it's likely that new strain is outcompeted, its best qualities can be absorbed into the existing strain and improve the monoculture's genetic makeup.

    BlackBerry 10, CB10 signed.
    Then I look forward to the following strain: an iOS or Android phone with a properly functioning Hub, a physical keyboard, and a sophisticated, gesture-based OS.


    Posted via CB10
    04-07-16 06:16 PM
  25. anon(9607753)'s Avatar
    iPhone vs Samsung is a false choice. Without Google's Android OS giveaway bonanza, none of Apple's current competitors even exist. Google already has them on the ropes, competing for ever smaller pieces of the Android pie and at lower and lower profits. It won't be long before a few start to flounder and poof Google could be back in the Android hardware game, and bye bye to oems...and Samsung and LG would be back to making cheap TVs, blu-rays, dishwashers, and washing machines.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by kputock; 04-08-16 at 11:51 AM.
    04-07-16 06:27 PM
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