[serrano_yejo]

RIM moves just 150,000 BlackBerry Torch phones on launch | Electronista

[_StephenBB81]

I must say I appreciate the way the Author wrote the Article,

He actually had some insight into the soft launch, rather than just a yelling that RIM is a failure.

RIM's Target market is still business, look at the ads, "business meet fun" business people are less likely to 1) line up, 2) do an early upgrade for a fee

150,000 phones on for a launch on a single network, already heavily populated with NEW phone owners as iPhone 4 had just launched isn't too bad, sure it isn't great, some that might have purchased the torch a few months ago, purchased the iPhone 4 instead, and are not going to trade it over, most consumers are not as phone obsessed as we at crackberry are

[RicanMedic78]

I believe it... I actually went to see it yesterday and it felt nice, but I think the demand for this is only within a very small group of picky people, and I'm willing to bet most of those people are here on crackberry. The Storm 2 is just fine and they should of just continued to focus their energy on perfecting the onscreen keyboard. Instead, what they did was show the public that touch screen has limitations and this is the alternative to solve those limitations. Not a good message IMO and it also waters down the lineup even further than it already has.

For business, nothing wrong with just having a Bold 9700 or a 9650! Nothing boring about that! Even a Storm is completely suitable for business! Shoot, I bang out more e-mail on my Storm than I do on my Bold on my secondary line

[habs_fan]

Wait till it comes to Canada on three providers, then we will see what the sales are

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Ghostnyc]

RIM should have consulted Crackberry in creating the 9800 and OS 6. I think some quality input from experienced users like ourselves would have gone a long way in product development.

[Xopher]

...Instead, what they did was show the public that touch screen has limitations and this is the alternative to solve those limitations. Not a good message IMO and it also waters down the lineup even further than it already has.

Except that RIM created the Storm at the request of Verizon, and the Torch under request of AT&T. Neither carrier carries the other, so it can't really water down the market much (at least not yet).

[jlb21]

The more I think about it, perhaps RIM purposefully did not extend themselves with this phone, like many CBers wish they had, knowing that it was in fact a filler phone. I think when we see LTE and the like, RIM makes a bigger push.

Or I could be wrong.....

[StAiChiLLiN]

its still only available for AT&T. So let it get some more reach.

[jeffreii]

I don't see how this is an "ouch". I remember the Palm Pre sold like 50,000 on opening weekend and that was considering a success.

Sure it's not even close to the iPhone4 sales but that launched in multiple countries and is clearly the most popular phone ever...even though I think it's terrible lol

Furthermore the awareness of the iPhone4's launch was 100's of times larger than the awareness for the Torch launch, in my opinion. Whether this is a marketing mistake by RIM or not I don't know...but I don't think so. That's not RIM's style and it was damn nice, for my part, to be able to walk into a store on my lunch break and pick up a Torch. I don't have the time or patience to camp out for hours at an Apple store to get a defective-radio-having toy.

[Vajraja]

This is a good article and I certainly don't agree this is an ouch at all.

BlackBerry Torch Sales Either ‘Steady’ or ‘Tepid,’ Analysts Say - Digits - WSJ

"Analysts at Stifel Nicolaus and RBC both put opening-weekend sales of the Torch 9800 at about 150,000 phones. In comparison, Apple said it sold 1.7 million iPhone 4s in its first three days, and Global Equities Research estimated 275,000 to 300,000 sales of Droid X at its launch in July. Estimates during the launch of the BlackBerry Storm in November 2008 ranged from 100,000 to 200,000, although shortages of the device resulted in long lines and sold-out stores."

[scorpiodsu]

It's "Ouch" because even though they sold a modest amount, that number is small compared to the number they prepared to sell based on the amount of units they shipped to AT&T and 3rd party sellers. It's all about expectations. 150k might seem a lot but it's not a lot if they shipped 500k to sellers. No company wants a surplus of that amount. It's all about expectations. The overal sales figures for this will be disappointing. I bet they wish this was on VZW. Buy 1 get 1.

[jeffreii]

It's "Ouch" because even though they sold a modest amount, that number is small compared to the number they prepared to sell based on the amount of units they shipped to AT&T and 3rd party sellers. It's all about expectations. 150k might seem a lot but it's not a lot if they shipped 500k to sellers. No company wants a surplus of that amount. It's all about expectations. The overal sales figures for this will be disappointing. I bet they wish this was on VZW. Buy 1 get 1.

Wait...you know how many they intended to sell or how many they shipped? I wasn't aware that that was public information.

Perhaps they just wanted to make sure there weren't frustrated customers due to out of stock issues?

[anon(13322)]

I don't see how this is an "ouch". I remember the Palm Pre sold like 50,000 on opening weekend and that was considering a success.

Sure it's not even close to the iPhone4 sales but that launched in multiple countries and is clearly the most popular phone ever...even though I think it's terrible lol

Furthermore the awareness of the iPhone4's launch was 100's of times larger than the awareness for the Torch launch, in my opinion. Whether this is a marketing mistake by RIM or not I don't know...but I don't think so. That's not RIM's style and it was damn nice, for my part, to be able to walk into a store on my lunch break and pick up a Torch. I don't have the time or patience to camp out for hours at an Apple store to get a defective-radio-having toy.

Hmm, it's an OUCH because Blackberry is a WELL-ESTABLISHED company. Palm was about to go out of business when the Palm Pre launched. I wish people stop defending RIM with this whole "Blackberry targets business" users crap. Don't make your products available to consumers if you are only making phones to benefit businesses. RIM standards, it's a flop.

[jeffreii]

Hmm, it's an OUCH because Blackberry is a WELL-ESTABLISHED company. Palm was about to go out of business when the Palm Pre launched. I wish people stop defending RIM with this whole "Blackberry targets business" users crap. Don't make your products available to consumers if you are only making phones to benefit businesses. RIM standards, it's a flop.

I never said RIM targets business customers - even though they obviously do. Have you seen the commercials?

The WSJ article has some analysts saying the sales are healthy and steady - one guy says underwhelming. Ok, that's not quite a flop now is it? I know you want it to be but you aren't a WSJ business analyst now are you.

Checks of AT&T stores throughout the U.S. showed no lines at stores on Thursday’s opening day, wrote Citi analyst Jim Suva, who called initial sales “tepid.” Goldman analysts said results were “underwhelming” and that most buyers appeared to be existing BlackBerry users. But Mike Abramsky at RBC Capital Markets said sales looked “healthy” and “steady,” and Shaw Wu at Kaufman Bros. said sales were “going well.”

Meanwhile, I bought mine at 1pm on Thursday and had to wait 30+ minutes just to speak to a rep - who told me he had been selling Torch's nonstop all day.

50,000 units is 50,000 units. 150,000 units is 150,000 units. Doesn't matter if you're on the verge of bankruptcy or not. You don't get to add an extra 0 to the number for that.

Beyond the reasons already given for this not being an iPhone4 sales number...BlackBerry has several other form factors available. Some of them have been released less than a year ago and will support the new OS. Apple releases one phone a year in one style.

Not everyone wants a slider, not everyone wants a touchscreen - and as any Apple fanboy would gladly point out: not everyone wants a physical keyboard. There are plenty of 9700 and 9650 owners out there who aren't upgrading because they are happy with what they have and are awaiting BlackBerry 6 on their devices. Storm2 owners who don't want the physical keyboard are awaiting the Storm3.

I'm sure there are a lot of people on the sidelines who want the Torch but are waiting to make sure it's a solid device - which it definitely is. Admittedly it is first-gen hardware and many people remember the Storm(1).

[dcgore]

There are several reasons for the 150K number in my opinion.
1. Blackberrys are found through several carriers and people will not just jump to at&t for this device when having a perfect working 9650 for instance.
2. Although this is a new RIM device, it seems blackberry devices are being released quite often, unlike the iphone that is primarily a yearly event.
3. Blackberry users at large are corporate users and i am not sure this device is appealing to them (this is my personal opinion). On the other hand i see the 9700 everywhere.
4. No matter who you are, beating a 1.7MM sold devices in 3 days will be extremely hard, then, what is next best/good enough?

[devGOD]

I must say I appreciate the way the Author wrote the Article,

He actually had some insight into the soft launch, rather than just a yelling that RIM is a failure.

RIM's Target market is still business, look at the ads, "business meet fun" business people are less likely to 1) line up, 2) do an early upgrade for a fee

150,000 phones on for a launch on a single network, already heavily populated with NEW phone owners as iPhone 4 had just launched isn't too bad, sure it isn't great, some that might have purchased the torch a few months ago, purchased the iPhone 4 instead, and are not going to trade it over, most consumers are not as phone obsessed as we at crackberry are

please stop the madness all of RIMs ads leading up to the OS6 / Torch launch were geared towards the consumers. now that RIM had a poor launch people are now screaming, its for business years. BS, the phone is geared towards the consumer a slide touch screen for the business? give me a break, next you're going to tell me the Storm 1 & 2 are business phones and RIM wasn't trying to compete with the IPhone. I'm not bashing RIM but i'm not blind to the fact that some BB diehards will defend anything RIM does with the its a "business" phone excuse. The Torch FAILED! RIM does not know how to target the consumer market, big example why the heck would you launch a phone with AT&T only knowing just a month ago they released and have the hottest phone on the market (iphone4). Does RIM seriously think the average consumer would choose there slider over the iphone?

The Torch is already selling for $78 at Walmart 50% + off. And its only been a week since the launch. No one outside of a diehard RIM can do nothing wrong fanboy world, wants the Torch. Read the forums 9800/Torch owners aren't all that happy with it. And of course the unhappy people who purchased the Torch are getting flamed by non-torch bb owners. Its sad to even see RIM try and compete with consumer... oh wait new clamshell phone and pearl coming out, oh wait thats a business phone, yeah definitely not geared towards the consumer. yeah right.

[Totalimmortal363]

Yea, 150k on launch day is pretty paltry compared to even some of the launch day figures of the VZW Android devices.

[Vajraja]

I never said RIM targets business customers - even though they obviously do. Have you seen the commercials?

The WSJ article has some analysts saying the sales are healthy and steady - one guy says underwhelming. Ok, that's not quite a flop now is it? I know you want it to be but you aren't a WSJ business analyst now are you.

50,000 units is 50,000 units. 150,000 units is 150,000 units. Doesn't matter if you're on the verge of bankruptcy or not. You don't get to add an extra 0 to the number for that.

Beyond the reasons already given for this not being an iPhone4 sales number...BlackBerry has several other form factors available. Some of them have been released less than a year ago and will support the new OS. Apple releases one phone a year in one style.

Not everyone wants a slider, not everyone wants a touchscreen - and as any Apple fanboy would gladly point out: not everyone wants a physical keyboard. There are plenty of 9700 and 9650 owners out there who aren't upgrading because they are happy with what they have and are awaiting BlackBerry 6 on their devices.

I'm sure there are a lot of people on the sidelines who want the Torch but are waiting to make sure it's a solid device - which it definitely is. Admittedly it is first-gen hardware and many people remember the Storm(1).

I think I'm going to give up arguing with people who are just going to assume the Torch is a failure. There are a lot of negative articles coming out on RIMM, as a Market Researcher (I'm in a different industry), I disagree with how it's being reported. On the surface sales appear average to me, not terrible, not great.

As a consumer who bought the Torch for $200. I am VERY happy so far. The Torch to me is a great device and I have really been enjoying it. I'm getting my $200 worth out of this device until I upgrade whenever that is.

[devGOD]

its still only available for AT&T. So let it get some more reach.

The iphone was only available on AT&T at launch and how many millions were sold? like i say time and time again, RIM does not know the consumer market. everything they've tried has pretty much been a fail.

[jeffreii]

The iphone was only available on AT&T at launch and how many millions were sold? like i say time and time again, RIM does not know the consumer market. everything they've tried has pretty much been a fail.

Quote from BGR:

Curiously, the launch numbers keep being compared to the first weekend sales figures of the iPhone 4; which launched on June 24th of this year in five countries and on multiple carriers.

[mark_rivers19]

i won't argue with people who can't be reasoned with..
AFAIK this is good news for ME.. ( yup! me, myself and i dept)
one of the reasons why i gave up my iphone 3GS , aside from the boring UI
is that almost everybody has one.. even my 11 yr old niece has one..
and somewhat that is a turn off for me..
Now, the less people i see with Torches the happier i am..
and the torch is doing everything that i NEED it to do.. except for make a coffee..

[jeffreii]

please stop the madness all of RIMs ads leading up to the OS6 / Torch launch were geared towards the consumers. now that RIM had a poor launch people are now screaming, its for business years. BS, the phone is geared towards the consumer a slide touch screen for the business? give me a break, next you're going to tell me the Storm 1 & 2 are business phones and RIM wasn't trying to compete with the IPhone. I'm not bashing RIM but i'm not blind to the fact that some BB diehards will defend anything RIM does with the its a "business" phone excuse. The Torch FAILED! RIM does not know how to target the consumer market, big example why the heck would you launch a phone with AT&T only knowing just a month ago they released and have the hottest phone on the market (iphone4). Does RIM seriously think the average consumer would choose there slider over the iphone?

The Torch is already selling for $78 at Walmart 50% + off. And its only been a week since the launch. No one outside of a diehard RIM can do nothing wrong fanboy world, wants the Torch. Read the forums 9800/Torch owners aren't all that happy with it. And of course the unhappy people who purchased the Torch are getting flamed by non-torch bb owners. Its sad to even see RIM try and compete with consumer... oh wait new clamshell phone and pearl coming out, oh wait thats a business phone, yeah definitely not geared towards the consumer. yeah right.

The commercials I've seen have been about combining business with fun.

You are no one. So you saying the Torch "failed" is a desperate attempt to validate your strange desire to doom RIM. Wallstreet analysts calling sales healthy and steady and at worst tepid and underwhelming are far from "failed". But go ahead and think what you want.

Read the iPhone forums - not everyone is happy either. That's NORMAL. There's no 100% happy customer device out there anywhere. In fact, the iPhone4 has much bigger problems than the Torch.

Personally I think the Torch is an awesome device and while the iPhone has some advantages, I would never consider trading.

EDIT: BTW I am only "defending RIM" because you are being irrational and claiming lies as facts. I am by no means arguing that this was a stellar launch and that RIM is on top of the world. When people like you decide to spew nonsense without backing it up, people will stand up and defend.

[BBThemes]

ok, scrap the iPhone4 part of this debate, as that 1.7million isnt on at+t, so you have NO comparison at all.

anyone have the samsung captivate (galaxy S) figures? thats at+t only smartphone, and its a very good phone at that (well the UK galaxy S is) so a real comparison would be nice to see rather than iPhone worldwide (well 5 or 6 countries and over 10 carriers plus apple store sales) Vs 1 carrier in one country.

im not saying one is better than the other, just asking for a level figure

[devGOD]

Quote from BGR:

Curiously, the launch numbers keep being compared to the first weekend sales figures of the iPhone 4; which launched on June 24th of this year in five countries and on multiple carriers.

no the iphone4 in the first week was only launched on AT&T. I'm not comparing anything other that the first weeks launch which was all at&t. RIM screwed up, why launch a phone on a network that just launched the hottest phone on the market makes no sense. a large chunk of the users have already upgraded why the heck would they want a torch

[Yzf600rmb]

When the iPhone4 came out, people knew what to expect and rushed to the store.
With the Torch, no one rushed because people wanted feedback on this all new device first.
Reading the forums, a lot of people are getting the Torch this week because now they've seen review was real users, not only editors...
I think by the end of the year, the sales will be good.
Will it surpass the iPhone sales, no. But they will sell well.