[southlander]

Things are changing for RIM almost day to day. No surprise that over time different RIM folks would say different things, or at least-- shade the same things differently. OS7 just got government security certifications in the US right? There will be lots of gov buy in for OS7 devices. The same holds for certain corporations I assume. That can add up.

Then RIM's US consumer business is totally different. All BlackBerry 10 pretty much I would expect.

So what you hear probably depends on what part of the market the person speaking is focused upon. Heck I even remember T Heins saying in his first few days as CEO that his first job was to "get an OS7 BlackBerry in everyone's hands". And since all I have been hearing is BlackBerry 10.

Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9930 using Tapatalk

[msbrat]

No dev is going to continue to develop and make new apps for OS7, they can't get Devs NOW for it, who in there right mind will do it when BB10 is out. So therefore there will be no NEW apps for anything but BB10, and that's where they should be sending what little Devs they have now to.

RIM's always spread out too thin cause of the 864 types of phones they have out there, and they're too afraid to realize that's whats put them in this position, too many phones + lack of apps + lack of devs because of too many phones + outdated phones = why RIm is laughed at today.

They're like pack rats with OCD, they can't get rid of junk. And will continue to sink till they get someone in charge that isn't afraid of change, because things can't get much worse...

I agree, what RIM needs to do is focus on TWO phones, a full touchscreen and one with possibly a bottom slider. That's it, no more. Then polish, polish, polish.

Focus on getting all the big players on board with the most used apps of today. Not the in house versions but the full versions. Skype, Netflix, the series of with Friends games.

BB10 won't be a blockbuster, far from it. It will be horrible and horrendous at first. I believe Watsa even mentioned it would take 3-5 years to become somewhat profitable.

RIM has to keep up with the competition. They have to have the same apps. They have to at least once every 10-12 months put out an updated phone, while still supporting the old. This should be easy enough with QNX. Same goes for the tablets.

We're at a point where you can't exactly add a whole lot more to the smartphone of today, that could be a plus.

One massive downside however is the competition seems to be moving towards a unification of all their devices, with one big ecosystem to support it. Like for instance Microsoft. Windows on your laptop, desktop, phone, tablet and gaming system. If that becomes the norm, RIM will end up as a very small niche player for enterprise and Microsoft is taking aim at that right now.

[belfastdispatcher]

In case you missed it this is not about what RIM needs to do, it's about what RIM is doing and they're keeping many existing customers happy by doing this. If you don't like it that's your problem.

BBOS has plenty apps, what they don't have is apps for major online services like Netflix/Skype/Lovefilm etc but those apps don't make develoeprs money, not after they built it.

It's apps like simple fun bbm connected games, utilities like quiclaunch, nfc launchers etc, those make developers money.

BBOS is here to stay, it's confirmed and that makes me happy, get it?

[msbrat]

In case you missed it this is not about what RIM needs to do, it's about what RIM is doing and they're keeping many existing customers happy by doing this. If you don't like it that's your problem.

BBOS has plenty apps, what they don't have is apps for major online services like Netflix/Skype/Lovefilm etc but those apps don't make develoeprs money, not after they built it.

It's apps like simple fun bbm connected games, utilities like quiclaunch, nfc launchers etc, those make developers money.

BBOS is here to stay, it's confirmed and that makes me happy, get it?

Why are you acting all arrogant? Netflix/Skype makes the developers TONS of money after the apps come out. What the heck do you think I'm paying Netflix $7 and Skype $13 a month for, and then see nothing of it is there?

Do you think I'd even consider a platform with stuff I'm paying monthly fees for and expect to be present, like 15 months ago?

BBM connected games? Are they on Google, iOS and Microsoft too?

[belfastdispatcher]

Why are you acting all arrogant? Netflix/Skype makes the developers TONS of money after the apps come out. What the heck do you think I'm paying Netflix $7 and Skype $13 a month for, and then see nothing of it is there?

Do you think I'd even consider a platform with stuff I'm paying monthly fees for and expect to be present, like 15 months ago?

BBM connected games? Are they on Google, iOS and Microsoft too?

No, Netflix and Skype pay a developer to make the app so you can access it on your mobile device. The subscription you pay to these services does not go to the developer since you can use them on many devices, mainly laptops really, in the browser. If anything making the apps cost these services money, they pay the developer, not you.

The BBM connected games and apps are not on any other platform, the hint is in the name.

I'm not sure why you're here to argue though, this is good news for many people, can't you just leave it at that? Obviously many will upgrade to BB10 but not everybody.

[belfastdispatcher]

There is nothing positive about this when they already do not want to develop for it. Most of them will see that BB10 is where the money is at and BB7 development will be even worse than it is now.

For those who do not care about apps, they might be fine with that. For those that do care about apps, they will move to BB10. BB10 devices wont stay at premium prices forever.

Exactly right, the second part the ones that will stay on BBOS, "people that care about a low monthly bill" will not be splashing on apps, and the main apps are already there, social networks, IM clients, travel apps, simple games etc.

[xandermac]

but those apps don't make develoeprs money, not after they built it.

Huh? Netflix and Skype apps don't make money for their respective companies? I'm not sure you know how they work then.

Regardless of who is contracted to build the app if Netflix/Skype saw potential to make enough money to cover the development costs on the blackberry and profit from the platform they would do it. However, they don't.

[avt123]

Exactly right, the second part the ones that will stay on BBOS, "people that care about a low monthly bill" will not be splashing on apps, and the main apps are already there, social networks, IM clients, travel apps, simple games etc.

But what I am saying is, there will eventually be BB10 devices that are no longer top tier. When the first batch of BB10 devices go budget to make way for the new ones, OS7 will be a relic and BB10 will be the real value.

We shall see in a year to a year and a halfs time.

[belfastdispatcher]

But what I am saying is, there will eventually be BB10 devices that are no longer top tier. When the first batch of BB10 devices go budget to make way for the new ones, OS7 will be a relic and BB10 will be the real value.

We shall see in a year to a year and a halfs time.

Doesn't really happen that way though, yesterday's high end phone's are not today's budget phones, if that was the case you'd see original droids, nexus, 9700, 9780, 9900 still for sale today but they're not, budget models are budget from the beginning, high end are just replaced by other high end phones and they only get sold together while stocks last.

[belfastdispatcher]

Huh? Netflix and Skype apps don't make money for their respective companies? I'm not sure you know how they work then.

Regardless of who is contracted to build the app if Netflix/Skype saw potential to make enough money to cover the development costs on the blackberry and profit from the platform they would do it. However, they don't.

Huh? You just said it yourself, the cost of subscription covers the fees for the contracted developer to build the app.

The Netflix/Skype apps cost these services money, they don't make them money.

[xandermac]

Huh? You just said it yourself, the cost of subscription covers the fees for the contracted developer to build the app.

The Netflix/Skype apps cost these services money, they don't make them money.

Then what the heck does this mean?

BBOS has plenty apps, what they don't have is apps for major online services like Netflix/Skype/Lovefilm etc but those apps don't make develoeprs money, not after they built it.

You seem to be implying that they're not available because a "developer" won't make money. You're missing the entire point though. If Netflix/Skype thought the BB platform would be profitable they would PAY to have the app developed (or build it in-house). The developer WOULD be paid for his contract work. Do you honestly think a developer would turn down this contract simply because they wouldn't make any recurring revenue? Or is your argument based on a 3rd party building his own front end to these services on his own accord? which is even more inane.

Those apps aren't available for one reason and one reason alone, Netflix and Skype don't currently see the BB as a viable/profitable platform.

It seems you're ruling out/ignoring 1st party development entirely and basing your argument on an independent 3rd party being the only way to get these apps on the blackberry. If the 1st party isn't willing to do it it's highly doubtful a 3rd party would try so in that respect you are correct.

[avt123]

Doesn't really happen that way though, yesterday's high end phone's are not today's budget phones, if that was the case you'd see original droids, nexus, 9700, 9780, 9900 still for sale today but they're not, budget models are budget from the beginning, high end are just replaced by other high end phones and they only get sold together while stocks last.

Yes it does. Maybe not where you are but it does here. The iPhone 3Gs and 4 are still able to be purchased, those are "yesterdays" high end phones for budget prices. High end devices eventually go down in price and get sold for much less. The same will happen to BB10 devices.

I'm not saying the devices will stay forever, but they will eventually go down to a budget price. At that point, a budget priced BB10 device destroys a budget priced BB7 device.

[belfastdispatcher]

Yes it does. Maybe not where you are but it does here. The iPhone 3Gs and 4 are still able to be purchased, those are "yesterdays" high end phones for budget prices. High end devices eventually go down in price and get sold for much less. The same will happen to BB10 devices.

I'm not saying the devices will stay forever, but they will eventually go down to a budget price. At that point, a budget priced BB10 device destroys a budget priced BB7 device.

Ah, but that's 4-5 years before that even begins to happen.

[belfastdispatcher]

PS, Curve 8520, 9300 old budget phones are still being sold, 9700, 9780 former high end are not

[avt123]

Ah, but that's 4-5 years before that even begins to happen.

No, that's basically 1-2 years after a phone is released (note, 3GS came out in 2009). The first BB10 device will be sold as a budget device once its replacement is released. Just like the 9650 became when the 9930 came out and the Storm 1 when the Storm 2 came out. Same type of concept.

[belfastdispatcher]

Then what the heck does this mean?



You seem to be implying that they're not available because a "developer" won't make money. You're missing the entire point though. If Netflix/Skype thought the BB platform would be profitable they would PAY to have the app developed (or build it in-house). The developer WOULD be paid for his contract work. Do you honestly think a developer would turn down this contract simply because they wouldn't make any recurring revenue? Or is your argument based on a 3rd party building his own front end to these services on his own accord? which is even more inane.

Those apps aren't available for one reason and one reason alone, Netflix and Skype don't currently see the BB as a viable/profitable platform.

It seems you're ruling out/ignoring 1st party development entirely and basing your argument on an independent 3rd party being the only way to get these apps on the blackberry. If the 1st party isn't willing to do it it's highly doubtful a 3rd party would try so in that respect you are correct.

No platform is profitable for Netflix, Skype, Facebook, Twitter, they cost them money, it's all about keeping existing customers happy if enough of use one of the said platforms, but the platforms don't generate them any cash.

[belfastdispatcher]

No, that's basically 1-2 years after a phone is released (note, 3GS came out in 2009). The first BB10 device will be sold as a budget device once its replacement is released. Just like the 9650 became when the 9930 came out and the Storm 1 when the Storm 2 came out. Same type of concept.

Not really, they drop in price but they never become budget phones, most people complain they don't drop in price enough, just look trough the forums.

[svelt]

Makes me happy yet nervous at the same time. Pleased because RIM has a fall back plan and apps for OS7 and even some for OS6 will continue to be updated, anxious because of all the talk of BB10 being RIM's last stand. If so, they really should be putting 100% of their workforce on BB10 in the face of the many lost employees.

[sleepngbear]

Hey, if there's no BB10 phone that floats my boat, I hope to h3ll I'll still be able to grab me a new 9900 when this one craps out.

To address some of the other discussions I'm seeing:

iPhone is the only phone I've seen where an older model becomes a budget model upon release of a new model. It is the oddball. Most other manufacturers that I'm aware of, including RIM, release new budget models while old models across the product range simply get sunsetted.

I'm pretty sure that services like netflix and Skype that distribute mobile apps absolutely do make money from subscribers, though I believe any revenues are incremental, in that they wouldn't get any additional fees from mobile users that already have subscriptions for their home setups. It is, however, more of a marketing move to increase overall subscribership. An exception to that right now is Facebook, which doesn't get any revenue from mobile users directly, unless or until those users go home to their laptops and desktop pc's and hit the site from their non-mobile browsers. In fact that's one of the details that peeved new investors who learned after the IPO that FB had no mobile revenue stream. But I digest.

[southlander]

Regardless of who is contracted to build the app if Netflix/Skype saw potential to make enough money to cover the development costs on the blackberry and profit from the platform they would do it. However, they don't.

Or... if NetFlix or Skype actually have an interest in keeping support costs down, they might choose to not develop for a platform that otherwise would be marginally profitable -- in hopes they can help to kill it off. It's not like NetFlix for example does not realize they can heavily influence consumer buying choices by limiting which platforms have their app.

As an interesting side note. I use a Tivo and NetFlix just released a very nice Tivo app to replace the stock app written a few years back by Tivo. Tivo is not exactly setting the world on fire in terms of growth. I find NetFlix's support curious. Though obviously the app is more likely to be used on a TV box than say a tablet. Just pointing out that a platform does not need to be setting the world on fire with sales and growth to get NetFlix to support it. Some people act like that is the case.

[xandermac]

PS, Curve 8520, 9300 old budget phones are still being sold, 9700, 9780 former high end are not

I'm not sure about carriers in NI but the 9780 is still on sale at T-Mobile USA. Contract price is a "budget" phone, retail however is still in the $450 range.

Edit. $109 & $430 respectively. This compares to $129 & $449. So it dropped a little to become an "affordable" blackberry.

[belfastdispatcher]

I'm not sure about carriers in NI but the 9780 is still on sale at T-Mobile USA. Contract price is a "budget" phone, retail however is still in the $450 range.

Edit. $109 & $430 respectively. This compares to $129 & $449. So it dropped a little to become an "affordable" blackberry.

So $450 after two years, compare that to the 9320 that's �130 from launch day, �250 for the 9360, or probably less by now.