01-31-14 04:34 AM
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  1. stabstabdie's Avatar
    An academic notes: that's simply wrong and you are applying something from the natural sciences to all of the academy, the humanities and social sciences (including management theorists) don't have a lot of time for 'proven true' as conceptually it is an idea that doesn't make much sense - all we'd actually look at is does Troy provide decent support for his central thesis - now I'd say he does and you might say he doesn't but neither involve 'proof'.
    OK. Fair enough. I can concede that, but the 'facts' to support his thesis are not accurate.
    So now what?
    11-27-13 03:52 PM
  2. cgk's Avatar
    OK. Fair enough. I can concede that, but the 'facts' to support his thesis are not accurate.
    So now what?
    We disagree! And within less than six months we will likely see - either everything goes EOL with no replacement or we see new phones and that eliminates this thesis.
    11-27-13 03:57 PM
  3. stabstabdie's Avatar
    We disagree! And within less than six months we will likely see - either everything goes EOL with no replacement or we see new phones and that eliminates this thesis.
    I don't agree to that!

    Lol

    Let's make this interesting the father of the boy who doesn't win will mow the lawn of the winners house in his wife's Sunday dress.
    11-27-13 04:10 PM
  4. stabstabdie's Avatar
    If the CMO and COO eliminations were the only issues at hand, I'd agree with you: it wouldn't prove much of anything. But when you look at all of the other decisions that BB has made over the last couple of months, as I've discussed at length in this thread, then a pretty clear picture begins to emerge.

    Do I have absolute proof? Of course not, and I never pretended to. Is there a preponderance of evidence? I think there is.
    Microsoft wrote down 900 million. Are they leaving the market too?
    11-27-13 04:24 PM
  5. XDrew42's Avatar
    The MEDIA reports what their Rice Krispies tell them to. I will cry when the day comes. UNTIL then. All I need is my Z10.


    and this lamp.
    11-27-13 04:38 PM
  6. cgk's Avatar
    Microsoft wrote down 900 million. Are they leaving the market too?
    Except we counter that piece of evidence with the fact that they have just spent ten billion on Nokia so we know the answer is no.


    Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk
    JeepBB and Etios like this.
    11-27-13 04:39 PM
  7. 12Danny123's Avatar
    There was a discussion here recently about a credible survey that had shown the BB userbase was still ahead of Microsoft's in the USA.

    Can't find it now unfortunately.
    I'm pretty sure. WP will be bigger than BB by now in USA. But almost EVERY single market in the world WP is probably bigger than BB. But note that Sales of the product matter more than user base for developers
    11-27-13 05:19 PM
  8. lnichols's Avatar
    Okay, for sense of a debate, let us agree to your point.

    Discussion,
    BB HW is proprietary and includes many owned patents and technology. Can we agree on this? Now, your thesis is that BB HW division is going bye-bye. I will agree to disagree, however, BB not going anywhere with it's software and BES services. We on the same page still?

    BB proprietary devices CAN be manufactured w/LICENSES and shared engineering to maintain exact specifications required for the HW? Still on same music?

    Even if, BIG IF right now, BB decides not to stay directly involved in day to day production of BB devices, they will LICENSE (=REVENUE STREAM) another global company to manufacture their devices for them. These devices will be required to meet or exceed BB requirements. Providing ability to minimize operations day to day within BB and continue the potential revenue stream with a partner who focuses solely on production of a device.

    Or NOT! Continue the restructure and move on, hopefully staying a little more ahead of the pack in the years to come.

    All in all, is a WIN/WIN for BB and anyone involved. Outside the folks who worked within this wing of the BB platform, for them, apologies.

    Comments invited...

    Z30, my first BB device, VERY HAPPY! Disclosure: I am a LONG investor.
    pin# 334C7251

    The only proprietary hardware in the current devices, and only in the Z30 is the paratek antenna. If you know others please share.

    Posted via CB10
    11-27-13 05:33 PM
  9. universalbit's Avatar
    Microsoft wrote down 900 million. Are they leaving the market too?

    It depends on how you look at it.

    MS has whiten-off USD900M Surface RT this year. It still releases the second RT (renamed as “Surface” only) this year since it has been in the development for quite sometimes, just like BB releases Z30 despite of Z10 has to be written-off.

    But it seems to me that MS will abandon this "specific" RT line (ARM) for the next generation. But of course, MS will not totally abandon smartphone / tablet market. Actually it will push more with the new Nokia handset division and new vision of smartphone OS to power their tablets.

    Microsoft Takes $900 Million Writeoff on Tablet - Digits - WSJ

    Microsoft appears set to abandon Windows RT - Telegraph

    So, it is interesting for me to see what is the strategic move that BB will do in the future.
    11-27-13 05:39 PM
  10. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I believe BlackBerry, in their current orientation (Enterprises and Governements to name 2 obvious targets) just can't afford to drop their hardware division. The "bootom-up"/"top-bottom" architecture is the sole reason today for these two targets to stay aboard. Because that's a strenght no other has (before you object, think NOC).
    I don't pretend they'll make profits selling devices, I'm even pretty sure, in the short term, they'll continue to lose some, either with reduced (negative) margins or bargains with volume CALs. Put this on the promotion budget line we may not see in the street or on TV screens.
    $250Mil per quarter ? That would be barely sufficient for a consumer market efficient promotion. Each $ must have a ROI, the sooner, the better.

    Of course, this is speculation.
    XDrew42 and Crackberrykills like this.
    11-27-13 05:47 PM
  11. stabstabdie's Avatar
    Except we counter that piece of evidence with the fact that they have just spent ten billion on Nokia so we know the answer is no.


    Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk
    But they had a huge write down!!!
    According to the op, that's a sign they're going down.
    I mean, he had other arguments too, but they weren't based on fact or accurate.

    Ps. You never answered the lawn challenge......
    11-27-13 06:02 PM
  12. Omnitech's Avatar
    Ps. You never answered the lawn challenge......

    I like the lawn challenge.

    And I agree that there is way too much of the "Blackberry is doomed because of this abstract thing that certainly "proves" something that no reasonable person using logic could agree with, or in some cases even test for reasonableness.

    It's like all the people who are always asking for the head of the CEO. I assert that MOST of those people do that simply because they have so little knowledge of business in general or that particular company's culture or business practices or history, that all they can do is chant "Off with the CEO's head!!" any time something displeases them. A monkey could almost do as good a job of "analysis".
    11-27-13 08:56 PM
  13. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    It's like all the people who are always asking for the head of the CEO. I assert that MOST of those people do that simply because they have so little knowledge of business in general or that particular company's culture or business practices or history, that all they can do is chant "Off with the CEO's head!!" any time something displeases them. A monkey could almost do as good a job of "analysis".
    Your next beer is mine on me !
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 11-28-13 at 04:50 AM.
    11-28-13 01:50 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Your next beer is mine
    You mean he's next beer is on you lol, what you said means you're planning to steal his next beer

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR and Omnitech like this.
    11-28-13 02:12 AM
  15. Raestloz's Avatar
    Okay WSJ is the only source telling this: "BlackBerry said it won't name a new chief marketing officer or chief operating officer, putting even more of the weight of the company's turnaround squarely on Mr. Chen."


    But BlackBerry without devices would not make sense. All other players are going to offer a whole ecosystem of hardware and software. So BlackBerry would be doing the exact opposite?

    Just take MDM: what does BlackBerry do when Samsung starts preloading their own mdm software onto all phones? And maybe giving the backend for free so companies get locked into their ecosystem?



    Posted via CB10
    If they won't name a new CMO and COO, wouldn't it mean John Chen is taking both positions?

    I mean, title is one thing, responsibilities of those titles are others.

    For example, even if BlackBerry eliminated the position of CEO (example), someone will inevitably have to do what a CEO does, or maybe multiple people doing pieces of it, because the company needs those things to be done to function.

    Didn't Thor create two new positions this year?

    Posted via CB10
    11-28-13 02:18 AM
  16. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    You mean he's next beer is on you lol, what you said means you're planning to steal his next beer

    Posted via CB10
    hahahahaha : Moooooooooooohhhhhthanks !
    (I thought "have a drink on me" could be ... well ... ambiguous ! Blame the Rolling Stones !!!!)
    11-28-13 04:53 AM
  17. Omnitech's Avatar
    Your next beer is mine on me !

    Yay! Now I just have to come to France...
    11-28-13 05:03 AM
  18. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Yay! Now I just have to come to France...
    Anytime, we'll raise another meetup and you'll try "Monaco" !
    11-28-13 05:05 AM
  19. Omnitech's Avatar
    Anytime, we'll raise another meetup and you'll try "Monaco" !

    I could use an excuse to go to France. Perhaps if a beautiful and brilliant woman were somehow involved..
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    11-28-13 05:11 AM
  20. TGR1's Avatar
    An academic notes: that's simply wrong and you are applying something from the natural sciences to all of the academy, the humanities and social sciences (including management theorists) don't have a lot of time for 'proven true' as conceptually it is an idea that doesn't make much sense - all we'd actually look at is does Troy provide decent support for his central thesis - now I'd say he does and you might say he doesn't but neither involve 'proof'.
    Doesn't apply in natural sciences either we'd be SOL without that little thing called theory.

    Troy has built a good argument based on what publically available evidence there is. Is he correct? I'm not part of BBRY inner circle but think he is on a more realistic way of thinking than many here because 1) his argument is less clouded by emotion and 2) his argument considers business interests more as well. Too many opinions here are based on what "I, the Blackberry fan, wants" and less on what "BlackBerry, the company, needs". It's perfectly natural to think that way and the two aren't mutually exclusive but it's a balancing act that right now is tipping toward the latter.

    Is Troy's premise correct? It is something that can only be proven in hindsight, likely in some book published with the promise of telling "the whole, unexpurgated, twagic" tale. Until then, both ayes and nays are purely speculative but at least Troy has put together a reasonable argument that is at least open to discussion.
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-28-13 07:48 AM
  21. stabstabdie's Avatar
    Yes, an argument based on false facts.
    11-28-13 08:33 AM
  22. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Yes, an argument based on false facts.
    Opinion =evidence nowadays. Did you know ?

    Posted via CB10
    11-28-13 08:37 AM
  23. missing_K-W's Avatar
    BB10 is an integrated mobile solution. Sorry to burst everyones bubble. Hardware is going to be around as long as BlackBerry

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    11-28-13 08:44 AM
  24. birdman_38's Avatar
    Opinion =evidence nowadays. Did you know ?
    Dave Bourque... you're back! Keeping it clean this go round?
    11-28-13 08:57 AM
  25. stabstabdie's Avatar
    Dave Bourque... you're back! Keeping it clean this go round?
    I sure hope not!
    Dave Bourque likes this.
    11-28-13 09:15 AM
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