01-31-14 04:34 AM
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  1. R Field's Avatar
    http://crackberry.com/crackberry-qa-...berrys-new-ceo to add a source for my last post.

    You won't see BlackBerry exiting the hardware game any time soon. The only way that will happen is if they go out of business.
    cbvinh likes this.
    11-26-13 11:29 AM
  2. homl's Avatar
    You can add to your list today's press release by BB, about how they are preparing to swim on the backs of their fierce competitors in their stronger markets by working out a deal to have BBM pre-installed. They are basically conceding that their hardware will be non-relevant in the near future, in those regions with the eroding market share, thus, they're preparing to jump their own hardware ship and swim on the backs of their competitors while keeping their brand above water with BBM being pre-iinstalled on their competitor's devices.

    The next two quarters should be telling, once we see the impact of BBM going cross-platform and the level of defections to other OEMs.

    I do think BB will release a few more phones until they finish their transition to services and software. But, if they continue with hardware, they are going to go bankrupt--lot's of sitting stock and write-downs/offs.
    BBM on other devices might be the best marketing coup. BB10 phones market is so low in comparison to the big two, they don't have much to lose. With BBM on those devices, the exposure of a taste of BB10 in BBM is huge. Maybe the added bonus of BBM voice and video is enough to get some of these users to at least give BB10 phones a try.
    11-26-13 11:40 AM
  3. Velocitymj's Avatar
    Thank you for this thread.
    Your post is well written and informative.

    I just switched from my Bold 9900 to a Q10 (which I love with OS 10.2) because the Bold no longer shows my contacts and BB told me that the phone needs to be replaced.
    Due to the lack of the apps for OS10 that I used for my day to day business operations I was curious as to why after 10 months, the software manufactures hadn't created them for BB.
    With most operating system updates or changes these companies are quick to follow with an update.
    And why wouldn't BB get them made if their looking to buoy their company's future?
    When I contacted my merchant service company about new CC reader software for OS10, I was informed that they they no longer support Blackberry (and they were surprised that the old software still worked on my Bold).
    Google searches have proved futile as almost all of the credit card readers, except a very poorly reviewed one, no longer support the BB platform.
    A post in BB's forums, looking for a CC reader as produced no results.
    Now I'm left without the ability to accept credit cards in the field.

    We all know that continuity is important in running a business.
    More than half of my business is run from my phone and I can't afford a disruption.
    Just like in buying stocks, when you're looking to find out if an investment has a future, you watch for indications in it's movement.
    For me, the cell phone I use, is an investment in an essential tool and I'm looking for indications in commitment for it's future.
    I'm willing to put up with buggy software and the lack of software, so long as I know it will be fixed in the not too distant future.
    I noticed that John Chen was being subtly non committal about the continuation of handset development.
    If you're going to definitely continue on with manufacturing, why wouldn't you say so?
    My mobile carrier, T-Mobile, a long time retailer of Blackberry, is phasing them out and their stores no longer display or sell them.
    As I mentioned software companies are dropping support.
    Now I find myself spending valuable time online looking to try and "side load" software that I need, something that I've never had to do before.
    This alone has given me pause.
    Now I'm reading this thread (I originally came here looking for a Q10 merchant service provider).
    One could easily say that this so called "writing on the wall" (along with this thread), is all conjecture.
    But IMO with the addition of this information that you have just posted, there are now too many negative occurrences surrounding BB to counter what can I consider to be logical reasoning regarding the demise of the BB smart phone.
    Last edited by Velocitymj; 11-26-13 at 01:03 PM.
    bbq10l, boi2012, Etios and 1 others like this.
    11-26-13 12:16 PM
  4. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    And I too noticed that John Chen was being subtly non committal about the continuation of handset development.
    If you're going to definitely continue on with manufacturing, why wouldn't you say so?
    How many times do people have to post links to where they said that they will be providing devices?

    From John himself.

    what is BlackBerry without the device? The question is, can we do more in that?
    felixweber likes this.
    11-26-13 12:18 PM
  5. R Field's Avatar
    To exit the hardware business within the next two years minimum would be definite company suicide.

    Their MDM portion of the business is growing yes but it's not even close to being able to solely sustain the company.

    BBM channels cross platform isn't even out yet to monetize, QNX is a very small portion of their revenue each quarter. Until QNX charges for OTA infortainment updates to car manufacturers they don't bring in much.

    So what is left as only solid revenue generating source. That's right hardware from BB10 and BBOS/BIS. Until they have solid diversified revenue streams from all those areas hardware is and will remain the main priority. /thread.

    CB10 - Z10 -10.2.1.1055
    11-26-13 12:19 PM
  6. R Field's Avatar
    @velocity use the square reader app to process credit card transactions. Works fine sideloaded.

    CB10 - Z10 -10.2.1.1055
    11-26-13 12:20 PM
  7. JDukeOSBB's Avatar
    Except that he absolutely didn't confirm anything of the sort.

    He spoke of "delivering devices". They're sitting on a warehouse full of unsold BB10 devices, and probably some BBOS devices as well, and at this rate, they might still have plenty for sale 2 years from now. Nowhere did he say a single word about making or manufacturing devices. Nor has he said BB10 by name; he's been absolutely mum on that subject, if you'll notice.

    Chen has been asked point blank if he planned to discontinue manufacturing hardware, and he said "I'm not sure that it makes sense" but that's a non-answer. I absolutely expect a non-answer, because BB needs to maintain the illusion that they are still in the hardware business as long as they have a bunch of inventory that needs to be sold. If they formally announced they were out of the hardware business, it would mean the existing inventory would have to be sold off in a fire sale. Chen wants to wring as many dollars as possible out of the current stock of phones before that happens.

    I notice that no one is refuting my points with any real evidence (I don't believe that can be done, but maybe there's evidence I haven't seen). From a manufacturing standpoint, BB has BEEN out of the hardware manufacturing game since the end of September, when the last Z30 was assembled and the Jabil Circuit contract was canceled.

    How many billion dollar manufacturers don't have a CMO or COO? Good luck finding one. Those positions are hugely important if you are in that business. Not having those positions is clear evidence that BB doesn't see itself in that business in the near future.
    "Companyís strategy to ensure we deliver the best devices, mobile security and device management through BES 10, provide multi-platform messaging solutions with BBM, and expand adoption of QNX embedded systems."
    - John Chen

    Source: Press Release: BLACKBERRY ANNOUNCES MANAGEMENT AND BOARD CHANGES - Press Releases
    11-26-13 12:29 PM
  8. Whyareallthegoodnamestaken's Avatar
    I do wish people would stop regurgitating this rubbish. Virtually all of BlackBerry software and services revolve around the handsets. Ceasing handset production would be virtual suicide. What a load of bunk.

    Even if it was the plan it would have to be a very long term transition.

    Posted via CB10
    11-26-13 01:21 PM
  9. Q30Man's Avatar
    And the conspiracy continues.
    11-26-13 01:23 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    No offense OP with all due respect but this is dumb. If you read Chen's interview with Kevin he stated. "What is BlackBerry without the handsets?"
    I read it, did you? If so, please quote the portion where Chen clearly stated that BB10 phones would continue to be produced.

    You can't, because he didn't. As you quoted above, he merely asked a question, he didn't provide an answer.

    To add to that...

    BlackBerry Isn't Dead; At Least 4 More Devices Planned - N4BB

    Are they downsizing the amount of handsets they release each year. Yup and they should be doing that. There is no need to make a ton of them just make the right ones.
    They announced that they will only be making 4 BB10 phones a year several months ago. Has BB announced any additional devices, or made any future roadmaps public? No. This quoted article is pure speculation, based on "other sources" which aren't being named, with a list of codenames from an old, obsolete roadmap. And all of that was pre-Chen info, so even if you assume that it was true as of a couple of months ago (which I don't believe), that doesn't make it true today.
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-26-13 01:25 PM
  11. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I read it, did you? If so, please quote the portion where Chen clearly stated that BB10 phones would continue to be produced.

    You can't, because he didn't. As you quoted above, he merely asked a question, he didn't provide an answer.



    They announced that they will only be making 4 BB10 phones a year several months ago. Has BB announced any additional devices, or made any future roadmaps public? No. This quoted article is pure speculation, based on "other sources" which aren't being named, with a list of codenames from an old, obsolete roadmap. And all of that was pre-Chen info, so even if you assume that it was true as of a couple of months ago (which I don't believe), that doesn't make it true today.
    And your posts aren't speculation? LOL
    felixweber and Fidel Mercado like this.
    11-26-13 01:27 PM
  12. Josh_Gooner's Avatar
    Still sorting through thread trying to find "evidence"......

    Posted via CB10
    11-26-13 01:29 PM
  13. propeller10's Avatar
    Still sorting through thread trying to find "evidence"......

    Posted via CB10
    And I am still awaiting a response to a question I asked in the first page of this thread.
    11-26-13 01:31 PM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    "Company’s strategy to ensure we deliver the best devices, mobile security and device management through BES 10, provide multi-platform messaging solutions with BBM, and expand adoption of QNX embedded systems."
    - John Chen
    I've already addressed this. Notice it doesn't say "MAKE the best devices". Notice it doesn't mention BB10.

    It would be very, very simple for Chen to simply say "Yes, we are absolutely going to continue manufacturing smartphones." Yet, despite several interviews and press releases, he has NOT said that. Why not? If it were true, why wouldn't he say the words?
    cgk, Etios, JeepBB and 2 others like this.
    11-26-13 01:31 PM
  15. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    And I am still awaiting a response to a question I asked in the first page of this thread.
    It's been answered. Post #33 and #36 on this thread.
    11-26-13 01:34 PM
  16. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I've already addressed this. Notice it doesn't say "MAKE the best devices". Notice it doesn't mention BB10.

    It would be very, very simple for Chen to simply say "Yes, we are absolutely going to continue manufacturing smartphones." Yet, despite several interviews and press releases, he has NOT said that. Why not? If it were true, why wouldn't he say the words?
    That isn't evidence. In case you missed it.. again...

    what is BlackBerry without the device? The question is, can we do more in that?
    They will be branded Blackberry devices. They will probably be outsourced LIKE THEY ARE NOW. Get over it.
    ital1 likes this.
    11-26-13 01:37 PM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    It's been answered. Post #33 and #36 on this thread.
    Those have nothing to do with evidence that there won't be Blackberry labelled devices.
    11-26-13 01:38 PM
  18. propeller10's Avatar
    Those have nothing to do with evidence that there won't be Blackberry labelled devices.
    Oh, he meant that those posts answer a question I had earlier.
    11-26-13 01:40 PM
  19. BeautyEh's Avatar
    Good points and thoroughly thought-out. However, if the OP is still reading these comments, I'd be interested in his take:

    1) Blackberry has sold in excess of 3.5 million 10 handsets by now. We do not know the exact number yet. The holiday season is coming up, a new device has been released, and obviously they have to do something with the unsold inventory. Prices will continue to drop. It's difficult for me to imagine a scenario where BB *quickly* gets out of the hardware business. You could be looking at 5 million+ BB10 handsets in active use in another couple of months. While that is a far, far cry from their original projections, it is still a lot of human beings using their product. Humans who are buying apps, using BBM, some of those users in military and high-level corporate environments, etc...how "easy" will it be to just drop all these paying customers? What kind of branding will that do for BB, in reverse? I'm not saying I know, but if I was Chen, these would be meaningful issues to consider.
    2) The link between BB10 phones and BES10 - Chris Umi. has pointed this out multiple times, and he is quite informed, to say the least. As Blackberry keeps working on seeding BES10 and related security-type solutions, getting actual BB devices out there is part of the process. We have seen some bigtime commitments come in already.
    3) The use of BB devices in military and governmental institutions. This is the biggest one, to me. Imagine a scenario where, after the job cuts and restructuring, and a theoretical new direction and/or less devices being released total, Blackberry could consistently break even on their phones overall. Would it make sense to attempt to exit a business that is being actively used by THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES ...? I realize this is something of an intangible, but it merits attention. The President is literally relying upon your product. So are other high level governmental personnel. So are many military institutions around the world. The point? The point is that your product has something that iPhones (and other toys) do not - it is a sophisticated and secure device.
    It's tough for me to imagine a scenario where a legitimate attempt is not made to save the hardware business, in lieu of this aspect especially. Does it not stand to reason that the US Military would prefer Blackberry stay in the hardware game?
    I would call this the argument from power, and for any readers of Chomsky or Zinn, it should hold some water.

    All things considered I think Chen does have a decision to make going forward, but to me it might be more of a "how can we keep this going, in some format, but at least break even" rather than "how can we kill this as quickly as possible and shrink the company to 1000 employees". The latter line of thought strikes me as quite improbable.
    Skyforever likes this.
    11-26-13 01:44 PM
  20. felixweber's Avatar
    I've already addressed this. Notice it doesn't say "MAKE the best devices". Notice it doesn't mention BB10.

    It would be very, very simple for Chen to simply say "Yes, we are absolutely going to continue manufacturing smartphones." Yet, despite several interviews and press releases, he has NOT said that. Why not? If it were true, why wouldn't he say the words?
    Never heard Ford saying they will keep on producing cars. Means Ford won't make any cars in 2014!?

    Posted via CB10
    R Field likes this.
    11-26-13 01:48 PM
  21. heymaggie's Avatar
    There was always some kind of Shut up - you don't know the future sentiment on these kinds of threads over at PreCentral/webOSNation before that platform folded. Even after an official announcement, some will say "Well you don't know that they really are working on some kind of stealth project."

    Nobody wants to talk about it, here, but I'm pretty sure it's a given, everywhere else, that Blackberry won't be making any new handsets any time soon. The Z30 is about as market-friendly as you can get with its screen size and slab configuration and that was hardly noticed by carriers and the smartphone buying public. What's the next launch going to be? Online only? The first phone that rolls off the assembly line costs $300 million or whatever to get to that point. We will eventually learn about Blackberry hardware projects that were cancelled.
    Etios, JeepBB, bbq10l and 4 others like this.
    11-26-13 01:49 PM
  22. dslocumb's Avatar
    I still often wonder why people sit on the sideline and speculate... All will be revealed one way or the other in time.
    11-26-13 01:51 PM
  23. Whyareallthegoodnamestaken's Avatar
    Well as long as speculation based on rumour or fancy is an acceptable argument in this thread, then...

    I give you...the rumoured Q30 and Z50.

    They have every chance of being real as the BS spouted here.

    Posted via CB10
    11-26-13 01:56 PM
  24. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Nobody wants to talk about it, here, but I'm pretty sure it's a given, everywhere else, that Blackberry won't be making any new handsets any time soon.
    Another person talking without any evidence.
    11-26-13 02:01 PM
  25. Fidel Mercado's Avatar
    I still often wonder why people sit on the sideline and speculate... All will be revealed one way or the other in time.
    It makes for interesting conversation....
    11-26-13 02:12 PM
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