[bboptimist]

Wasn't there a rumor that BB was switching to contract manufacturing with Foxconn?

[Bluenoser63]

Wasn't there a rumor that BB was switching to contract manufacturing with Foxconn?

They already did to manufacture some components and other companies also. Jabil Circuit is another one. So I think that most people who say that others should manufacture Blackberry phones don't know that others already manufacture parts for Blackberry. Blackberry will still have to be involved at some level to keep security.

[BlackBerry Guy]

But BlackBerry without devices would not make sense. All other players are going to offer a whole ecosystem of hardware and software. So BlackBerry would be doing the exact opposite?

Just take MDM: what does BlackBerry do when Samsung starts preloading their own mdm software onto all phones? And maybe giving the backend for free so companies get locked into their ecosystem?



Posted via CB10

It's not what we want to see, but it makes sense. BlackBerry needs to do what it needs to do to keep operating. It's hardware sales haven't been great the last few years and it's costing them. At this point, they can take another kick at the can and hope the outcome would be different, or they can try changing their business strategy. Some very well known companies (ie. IBM, Apple) have had to reorganize and change directions in order to survive tough times. Apple slowly went from a computer company to a consumer electronics company.

Using your MDM example, I believe Knox only works on Samsung devices. But BYOD isn't just Samsung...it's BlackBerry, Apple, other Android OEMs, Windows Phone. I think it's a wise move by BlackBerry to give BES the ability to manage other devices. It's still got a good name with IT departments. They can remain relevant in that space. Same with BBMx. These areas are not lost, and I believe this is where they must focus their efforts for the immediate future. Most of us here like their hardware, but the fact is, they just haven't sold well. Like I said earlier, I'd rather see BlackBerry survive in a different form, than be sold off for patents.

[SparkyBC]

"BB eliminated the Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) and Chief Operations Officer (COO) positions today. They didn't just fire the folks in those positions, they dissolved those positions. "

I didn't read the press release did Chen actually say that the positions were dissolved?

They both sucked at their positions, I would have dropped them too. Ask anyone on crackberry, it's a good move.

Blackberry won't be leaving the hardware business. You could stick a fork In them then, and watch the stock fall.

Not having a CMO isn't a big deal right now. Marketing has been nonexistent for years!

No COO billion dollars of inventory, they need one right now why?

[felixweber]

It's not what we want to see, but it makes sense. BlackBerry needs to do what it needs to do to keep operating. It's hardware sales haven't been great the last few years and it's costing them. At this point, they can take another kick at the can and hope the outcome would be different, or they can try changing their business strategy. Some very well known companies (ie. IBM, Apple) have had to reorganize and change directions in order to survive tough times. Apple slowly went from a computer company to a consumer electronics company.

Using your MDM example, I believe Knox only works on Samsung devices. But BYOD isn't just Samsung...it's BlackBerry, Apple, other Android OEMs, Windows Phone. I think it's a wise move by BlackBerry to give BES the ability to manage other devices. It's still got a good name with IT departments. They can remain relevant in that space. Same with BBMx. These areas are not lost, and I believe this is where they must focus their efforts for the immediate future. Most of us here like their hardware, but the fact is, they just haven't sold well. Like I said earlier, I'd rather see BlackBerry survive in a different form, than be sold off for patents.

Yes, I partly agree with you. But I think BYOD will be over sooner or late (various reasons and security is only one point) at some time in the future companies want solution for mobility. And why choose a different software and hardware vendor if Samsung offers a pack of both?
I wouldn't want my it department have more work if I could buy a one shot solution....

Posted via CB10

[scribacco]

The day blackberry states they will drop hardware is the only day I will have any such motion to believe such

Posted via CB10

They have a track records of telling the truth, right? lol
If they are smart they should stop making devices that no one buy just to write them off few months later..the Z30 is next since it is a totall flop like the z10

[kbz1960]

It was the same with PC's. A small independent business could make good profit from selling computers and add ons. As these items started flooding the market and big box stores started selling them the markup on cost dropped drastically so now the profit of a small business has been slashed to nothing. Many mom and pop computer places went out of business due to no longer having the high markup put on items they purchased to sell. Now some still do fine with repairs etc

[m1kr0]

Maybe they stop and contract someone else?

That would make perfect sense. Outsourcing/partnering with another handset maker. HTC comes to mind- they also struggle due to low volumes. If they can add BB handsets (up to a certain point in the manufacturing process) to bolster their throughput and reduce overhead costs of the existing facility, to me it looks like a win for both parties.

[v cheng]

Little differentiates one cell phone with another in the top end of the market. Of course there are issues like the size, speed of the processor, battery life, camera etc. But they all perform the basic functions. The less costly method is to transform the unit by enhancing the operating system.
Given a huge inventory of written down hardware, which the market sees as unsellable, why not transform them by updating and enhancing them through the operating system. Hence the emphasis on software. Upgrade the operating system is a much more manageable and smaller task than reinventing yet another piece of hardware. The best asset BlackBerry has at the moment is BB10; make it better. It will in turn transform every BlackBerry handset into a very competitive and attractive smart phone. What makes it smart is the operating system.

Posted via CB10

[boi2012]

http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...erryos-877917/

I don't generally start threads here, and I debated whether to start this one, especially given the topic, which I know isn't going to be received with open arms by many Crackberrians. Still, I think it needs to be said.

BB eliminated the Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) and Chief Operations Officer (COO) positions today. They didn't just fire the folks in those positions, they dissolved those positions. Think about that for a second: they no longer feel that Marketing and Operations divisions are important enough to be led by a C-suite-level position. How is that possible if they plan to continue to be in the hardware business? In my opinion, it isn't.

Instead, I see this as yet another strong piece of evidence that BB does not plan to be in the hardware business going forward, and in fact has ALREADY exited the market. Let's look at the reasons why I believe that is true:

• Massive losses in hardware, with nearly $2 billion in write-downs over the last couple of years, between the Playbook and the Z10.
• Continued bleeding of marketshare, and particularly low sales of BB10 devices (BBOS has outsold BB10 each quarter, by a wide margin).
• At the end of September, BB canceled its contract with the OEM manufacturer, Jabil Circuit, who actually made the BB handsets, leaving them without a manufacturing partner.
• John Chen's repeated statements about focusing on software and services going forward, and refusing to outright deny that BB was exiting the hardware business (it makes sense not to do so while they still have existing inventory to sell).
• And now, eliminating the CMO and COO positions entirely.

In the face of all of that evidence, I don't see how anyone can believe that hardware is in BB's (near) future.

I don't believe that BB is going to cease to exist, mind you. Rather, I see BB pretty quickly becoming a sub-1000-person software company (maybe closer to 500 employees, total), focusing on QNX, XBBM, and BES/MDM. It's also possible that one or more of these lines of business may be spun off into a separate company. Clearly, there is value in these areas and potential for profits, but BB's days as a company that makes billions in revenue and competes in the smartphone market are, IMO, clearly over, at least for the foreseeable future.

Could they jump back in 5 years down the road? Who knows? Maybe HTML6 (7? 8?) will have made native apps truly obsolete, and the smartphone OS world will be broken wide open again, with lots of new competition. For the current cycle, though, BB took WAY too long to take multi-touch, web, media, and app-enabled smartphones seriously, and by the time they made a real effort to get back into the game, it was too little and WAY too late. 95+% of the blame for that rests with Mike and Jim, without a doubt. Thorsten was obviously not the right guy for the CEO job, but to be fair, his task was nearly impossible to begin with, due to the situation Mike and Jim left him with.

I get that this is a BB fan site, and this post isn't going to be popular, but can anyone really say it's not realistic? Is there any real, substantial evidence that points in the other direction?

You can add to your list today's press release by BB, about how they are preparing to swim on the backs of their fierce competitors in their stronger markets by working out a deal to have BBM pre-installed. They are basically conceding that their hardware will be non-relevant in the near future, in those regions with the eroding market share, thus, they're preparing to jump their own hardware ship and swim on the backs of their competitors while keeping their brand above water with BBM being pre-iinstalled on their competitor's devices.

The next two quarters should be telling, once we see the impact of BBM going cross-platform and the level of defections to other OEMs.

I do think BB will release a few more phones until they finish their transition to services and software. But, if they continue with hardware, they are going to go bankrupt--lot's of sitting stock and write-downs/offs.

[Troy Tiscareno]

That would make perfect sense. Outsourcing/partnering with another handset maker. HTC comes to mind- they also struggle due to low volumes.

Because BB10 contains non-Google-certified Android code, HTC (and any member of the Android Open Handset Alliance) is prohibited from making phones for it, even for another company. HTC could not make phones for BB unless BB removed the Android code or unless HTC dropped out of the OHA and dumped Android altogether, neither of which I see happening.

[m1kr0]

Because BB10 contains non-Google-certified Android code, HTC (and any member of the Android Open Handset Alliance) is prohibited from making phones for it, even for another company. HTC could not make phones for BB unless BB removed the Android code or unless HTC dropped out of the OHA and dumped Android altogether, neither of which I see happening.

Troy, yes. I'm not trying to say it must be a HTC running BB 10 software. I'm saying that HTC runs two completely separate lines in the facility. One is stock Android, branded as HTC and the other one is Z10 for example, running BB OS 10. Surely their can't be an infringement issue in that?

[alternator77]

I believe that BB is scrambling to improve BES10's ability to work with iOS and Android, and hoping to compete in the BYOD world. Chen has said as much, in fact ("fully embracing BYOD"). Which is another reason I think that the hardware business is in BB's past, other than selling existing stocks.

You have to look at all the evidence and read between the lines. Look at what the press releases actually say and don't say, without "interpretation." Remember that those announcements go through the Legal department, and are very carefully worded. Press releases are routinely worded to SUGGEST things that absolutely aren't true, but that it's in the company's best interest for people to believe are true; in this case, that BB will continue to be in the smartphone handset business. But if you read carefully, you'll see that there's really nothing there that would assure anyone that they'll really stay with hardware.

And as for comparing to the situation a year ago, prior to the BB10 launch, there's really no comparison. BB's situation, with 3 abysmal quarters and BB10s failure in the marketplace, another $1B write-down, plus the failed sale of the company and being in debt for the first time in forever, is far, FAR worse than it was then. A year ago, there was real hope that BB10 was going to be a market success and make BB competitive again. That didn't happen; BB10 has not been a success in the marketplace, and the erosion in carrier support, installed base, and service revenue (XBBM is killing the BIS business very quickly as people switch from BBOS devices to Android with BBM) has forced BB to make some hard choices. I believe, looking at the data, that shedding the hardware business is the only viable choice. That doesn't mean it's a choice that anyone LIKES, but it's simply not sustainable for BB to remain in the handset business at this time.

Um reading between the lines as you say we should do is in fact interpretation. You're contradicting yourself.

Posted from a phone....

[LuvULongTime]

The original post was MY OPINION, which is why it is stated in the title. But that post contains a number of pieces of evidence. They are listed in bullet points.

I haven't seen any evidence to refute them, which is why I formed the opinion that I did. I'm open to investigating evidence to the contrary.

You make many compelling points and I can't refute any of them. However, it just doesn't make sense to me for BBRY to continue on as a company without making smartphones in some limited capacity. BES without BB10/BBOS just doesn't fit. I can see them drastically scaling back production and eliminating marketing and only selling only a qwerty keyboard device to businesses that still demand it. I can also see them completely exiting the consumer space as well, and possibly only selling phones direct to consumers on their website.

Now is the time for RIM to retreat (but not 100%), by continuing to sell BB10 devices to businesses all while taking the time to refine and polish the OS. They also need to get as many business focused productivity apps on the platform. May in 3-5 years they can renter the consumer space with a mature OS and a better Android integration complemented with native business productivity apps.

Just my $0.02. All in all a very interesting story to follow IMO.

[alternator77]

Exactly heins was at the hrlm for the playbook and the lastest guy for bb10 both led to massive write downs totalling 2billion. Clearly theyre not good at that job.

Posted from a phone....

[cgk]

Troy, yes. I'm not trying to say it must be a HTC running BB 10 software. I'm saying that HTC runs two completely separate lines in the facility. One is stock Android, branded as HTC and the other one is Z10 for example, running BB OS 10. Surely their can't be an infringement issue in that?

You can't even do that - which is why the amazon hardware is built by a company (who's name escapes me) who are not in the OHA.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Troy, yes. I'm not trying to say it must be a HTC running BB 10 software. I'm saying that HTC runs two completely separate lines in the facility. One is stock Android, branded as HTC and the other one is Z10 for example, running BB OS 10. Surely their can't be an infringement issue in that?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. OHA members are prohibited from selling or manufacturing (for themselves or others) devices that use non-Google-certified Android, and that's what BB10 is considered as long as it contains Android code.

[m1kr0]

You can't even do that - which is why the amazon hardware is built by a company (who's name escapes me) who are not in the OHA.

OK cgk. What this implies is that say, for example Foxconn builds any Android handsets, they won't be able to build Apple products any longer?

[Troy Tiscareno]

You make many compelling points and I can't refute any of them. However, it just doesn't make sense to me for BBRY to continue on as a company without making smartphones in some limited capacity. BES without BB10/BBOS just doesn't fit. I can see them drastically scaling back production and eliminating marketing and only selling only a qwerty keyboard device to businesses that still demand it. I can also see them completely exiting the consumer space as well, and possibly only selling phones direct to consumers on their website.

As I said, they currently have enough phones in stock to maintain the sales level they are at for almost 2 years. They don't need to make any more phones to stay in the BES10 business and have a total end-to-end solution, at least for the near future.

[Troy Tiscareno]

OK cgk. What this implies is that say, for example Foxconn builds any Android handsets, they won't be able to build Apple products any longer?

iOS contains no Android code, nor does Windows Phone, so there is no prohibition there. Samsung and HTC make WinPhones already.

Google prohibited non-certified Android manufacturing as part of the OHA because they didn't want their partners taking Android, which they spent billions buying and developing, and using it to compete directly against Google. If you want to do that, then you have to go it alone, as Amazon has done.

[ikalinin]

opinion...
more evidence...
read the facts, and read between the lines...

this entire thread is so 'out of the box', and hardly makes any sense.

if BlackBerry stops making phone we'd know that by now. they are burning through money.. so if that is their plan, they would let it be known.
BlackBerry knows they have a great product, and the only thing killing them is APPS. as funny as that sounds, its true. we all know it.
so look at the headlines...
- bbm preinstalled on some android devices
- 10.2.1 apk integration

i would think its the opposite.. BBRY is going android for app support, and BB10 for their BIS and car integration.
everything is speculation on this topic/ forum.. lets avoid using facts, and support, because there is NONE right now.

[kbz1960]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. OHA members are prohibited from selling or manufacturing (for themselves or others) devices that use non-Google-certified Android, and that's what BB10 is considered as long as it contains Android code.

So that is why android is free? Sign up for free OS but sign this 5 year contract and if it doesn't work out wtf your stuck cause you can't make any phone with any other OS, suckers.

Edit: didn't read ahead.

[R Field]

No offense OP with all due respect but this is dumb. If you read Chen's interview with Kevin he stated. "What is BlackBerry without the handsets?"

To add to that...

http://n4bb.com/blackberry-isnt-dead-4-devices-planned/

Are they downsizing the amount of handsets they release each year. Yup and they should be doing that. There is no need to make a ton of them just make the right ones.
CB10 - Z10 -10.2.1.1055

[qwerty4ever]

The day blackberry states they will drop hardware is the only day I will have any such motion to believe such

Posted via CB10

Realistically, unless BlackBerry management announces future smartphones will be running Google Android exclusively I will stay with BlackBerry hardware whether manufactured in-house or by a third-party. Now if the hardware design and quality suffer that is another matter entirely. BlackBerry needs four hardware products: BlackBerry Z10, BlackBerry Q5, a yet to be named slider, and a BlackBerry BlackBook or BlackPad. The Z10 and Q5 are for illustrative purposes of form.

Posted via CB10 from the BlackBerry Z10

[mmarco]

All agree in one thing, something will happen to BB in a near future

I belive in - One system to rule them all