[sorinv]

Native apps run a lot better and the big ecosystems are controlled by the two most valuable companies in the world, I don't see it ever changing.

Never say never. IBM, Microsoft, Apple, Google, maybe Facebook next...
They all ruled the world and lost or will lose soon.
No company stays at number 1 forever.
There will be other companies and other gadgets beyond Apple, Google and smartphones.

[sorinv]

Native apps run a lot better and the big ecosystems are controlled by the two most valuable companies in the world, I don't see it ever changing.

They don't if you set your privacy levels as in bb10.
On my Macbook the Safari browser is pretty useless for a lot of websites if I disallow cookies (as I do on my passport).
They only run smooth if you let them datamine the heck out of your phone.

[TgeekB]

Never say never. IBM, Microsoft, Apple, Google, maybe Facebook next...
They all ruled the world and lost or will lose soon.
No company stays at number 1 forever.
There will be other companies and other gadgets beyond Apple, Google and smartphones.

Very true, but not for a while.

[jm1219]

Never say never. IBM, Microsoft, Apple, Google, maybe Facebook next...
They all ruled the world and lost or will lose soon.
No company stays at number 1 forever.
There will be other companies and other gadgets beyond Apple, Google and smartphones.

Oh I agree but I think as far as the modern smartphone landscape goes, with app ecosystems and such, Apple and Google will control that until innovation moves us on to whatever that replacement "device" is.

[Skidoo583]

Wile I really miss my blackberry as I've decided to use iPhone now, one thing I don't understand is all the people that say I'm not going to buy an iPhone and get stuck in apples web of an eco system. I was actually one of them, really what's the difference from android or blackberrys app eco system as far a being tied down to them.
What I see is Apple owns their app system
And Google owns androids app system with the only difference is there a bunch of different phone makers for android they all basically do the same same.

[FF22]

Hey...

"Off the Titanic, onto the Hindenburg."

Okay, then, the Andrea Doria!

[gebco]

Wile I really miss my blackberry as I've decided to use iPhone now, one thing I don't understand is all the people that say I'm not going to buy an iPhone and get stuck in apples web of an eco system. I was actually one of them, really what's the difference from android or blackberrys app eco system as far a being tied down to them.
What I see is Apple owns their app system
And Google owns androids app system with the only difference is there a bunch of different phone makers for android they all basically do the same same.

There are a few things that Apple forces you into buying where BlackBerry or Android don't.

Miracast for example, I can simply connect my phone to to my TV to view photos. No Apple TV needed.

USB OTG

NFC sharing with other BlackBerry or Android phone, not limited to Apple Air where you can only share between Apple products.

Bluetooth sharing between devices (useful for when I want to quickly share files between my work tablet and Z30)

I don't claim to know Apple products as well as BlackBerry, so I may be off base here. But it just seems to me that I can do more with my BlackBerry than I can with my iPad, apps notwithstanding.



Posted via CB10

[matador22]

There are a few things that Apple forces you into buying where BlackBerry or Android don't.

Miracast for example, I can simply connect my phone to to my TV to view photos. No Apple TV needed.

USB OTG

NFC sharing with other BlackBerry or Android phone, not limited to Apple Air where you can only share between Apple products.

Bluetooth sharing between devices (useful for when I want to quickly share files between my work tablet and Z30)

I don't claim to know Apple products as well as BlackBerry, so I may be off base here. But it just seems to me that I can do more with my BlackBerry than I can with my iPad, apps notwithstanding.



Posted via CB10

I am not even sure about this declarative statement. But I trust you. Buddy. Blackberry is and was genius. Where are all the fans !? I gave up and bought two old school blackberry 10 devices. The writing is on the wall. Time to say goodbye. Unless.... The Phoenix rises?

[Soulstream]

Well it has been a 3 way race in the desktop world for a while now with Windows as the majority OS, MacOSX as the premium OS and various Linux distributions. Right now, nobody would actually invest in releasing a new desktop OS no matter how advanced it would be.

The same thing is happening to mobile right now with Android, iOS and Windows phone. The mobile market is converting just as the desktop one did before it.

[MC_A_DOT]

If there is no real new BB1O phone, then I am out. Cant trust BlackBerry anymore.
Think I'm switching to Windows phone.

Posted via Z30

Windows good luck with that

[darkehawke]

Windows good luck with that

I hear that. Switch of their privacy invasion settings and they will just switch them back on with an update

[darkehawke]

First They never Evan advertised os10 the only people who knew about it was blackberry die hards that's a big one.

Let's not rewrite history shall we.
While Blackberry never advertised as much as they should of, they received a ton of free hype and advertising in the run up to the release of BB10 from various sites.
Blackberry did advertise the Z10 quite extensively as well.
And have we forgotten already the millions spent on the Superbowl ad which was supposed to change the world? Despite the fact that it was big money for a small sport with limited exposure.
Then there's the Formula One sponsorship which has probably been the only decent thing done by the marketing team.

I think the Superbowl ad alone is a major example that money thrown at marketing is in no way a guarantee of success.

BB10 had much more issues then just lack of advertising. It simply did not appeal to the masses. And that included die hard Blackberry fans as it was legacy devices and their service charges that bankrolled the continuation of BB10 after it flopped.

[anon(9169048)]

I just ordered a Jolla Sailfish that I'm having delivered to my sister in Europe. I'll pick it up in a couple of weeks when I go over for a visit. I understand that it's use will be limited due to band restrictions but it's the OS that I'm more interested in testing out. I was going to grab an Ubuntu device as well but it seems I would only be able to get one in Germany. There are alternatives out there if you poke around and with some encouragement maybe they'll produce versions that are much more suitable for the North American market.

*EDIT*

Just this minute ordered a BQ Aquaris E5 HD running Ubuntu, for some reason I didn't see it a few days ago. I find the specs lacking in both the Sailfish and Ubuntu powered devices but it's the OS I want to test. From what I've read, Sailfish is very similar to BB10 in operation, we'll see.

*EDIT2*

Seems like Samsung is finally going to release a North American version of the Z3 powered by Tizen. Specs are not overly exciting but it does mean more options outside of iOS and Android which is precisely what I'm looking for.

[ubizmo]

Will it really bankrupt BlackBerry to update the specs on the Classic and release a new one? The Priv hasn't really saved BlackBerry right?

The Classic didn't save it either. Why do it again?

I think BlackBerry has proven, as much as these things can ever be proven, that no smartphone can be a success, in the sense of being profitable to make and sell, without a strong app ecosystem. The native BB10 ecosystem is anything but strong, with due respect to those few developers who are still in it. The Android runtime just isn't good enough, especially without Play Services. For every person who wants no part of Google's data mining, you will find several who clamor for Play Services on their BB10 phone. Cobalt's thread on the subject is one of the longest and busiest on CrackBerry.

As Android apps get updated, their performance on the BB10 Android runtime is already deteriorating. I use Tapatalk quite a lot, but it's getting pretty bad on my Passport. Kindle takes forever to load. Sure I could dig up older versions of apps and just hang on, but that's not what makes for success in the smartphone market.

So unless BlackBerry has a solution to these problems, yes I think it probably would bankrupt them to keep releasing BB10 devices to be bought by an ever-dwindling population of fans. And if they had a solution, we would've seen it by now.

[crucial bbq]

Sales


All you have to do is track BB10 device sales for the last two years..... and it's clear why they have moved to Android. Their only other option was just getting out of hardware. As great as BB10 is as an OS, it just doesn't meet the needs of enough users to make it a viable platform. So far no one has explained how spending more money on BB10 would change the current sales numbers.

I think most everyone has two choices - which Apple phone or which Android phone will you use.

I think BlackBerry reached carrying capacity with BB10 the same year it launched: 2013. Had they developed a solid upgrade path for those first adopters, say releasing that Z50 and perhaps a "Q50" in 2015 I honestly believe sales would have matched 2013 give or take. There were also still a good amount of legacy users into 2014; had the Classic been released earlier in 2014 that may have been their upgrade path.

I am not suggesting that sales would have been through the roof, just better than what we have seen. I mean, the problem with BB10 handsets was that there was no real upgrade path as they just released a bunch of random handsets each year. Perhaps the Priv is ultimately the upgrade path for all (BBOS and BB10)? I imagine Chen realizes this and it is one reason why going forward we will only see 1 - 2 new handsets/year. At least MS realized they could stop the bleeding when they stop producing a billion Lumias per year. (and yes, that was an exaggeration but truth is that MS were able to stabilize monetary loss by reducing the number of handsets in production; and they did do quite a few Lumias)

Too bad they did not go the Nexus route with borrowed hardware and just concentrated on the security and BB Skin. A slider and PKB and new OS was too much for a first device.

I dunno. I think BlackBerry made the right moves with the Priv; it certainly got people taking notice. Had they played it safe the Priv likely would have flown under many radars. Love it or hate it, a flagship Android with a pkb--and a slider no less--is going to turn some heads.

The Priv doesn't have that many problems in reality, besides its stupid name. Go to any forum for any phone ever, the people with issues are the loudest. If you judged phones by their discussion forums you would think smartphones aren't even usable.

Not to mention most of those "problems" have to do with learning how to use Android since this forum has a BB10 user base. Go to Android Central or XDA and you'll see a different story.

How many issues did the Galaxy S III have? Or how many will the S7? How about the LG v10? Why can't we just accept that the Priv has a few more issues than "normal" for a debut? I mean we all agree that BB10 rolled out of bed a little too early. Or that releasing the Q10 second was a major blunder (okay, not all believe this). Yet with the Priv out comes the BlackBerry apologists, "But, all smartphones have their issues!"

Let's just hope we can witness a shift from app based ecosystems to a single, universal deployment such as HTML5.

In the mid-2000s, both Jobs and Gates believed that the post-PC future (tablets, smartphones, the like) would run web-based apps. Ironic.

Chrome is getting there; MS seems to want to turn everything into a subscription service from the cloud....

Native apps run a lot better and the big ecosystems are controlled by the two most valuable companies in the world, I don't see it ever changing.

If you include Google's parent company, Alphabet, then yes, Alphabet slightly beats out Apple for #1 (and thus, Apple is #2). However, if we are only talking about Google than Apple is king by a landside, Microsoft a "distant" second closely followed by Google in third.

Google does not exactly control the Android app ecosystem. They just have the largest piece of that pie.

[skstrials]

I am glad that BlackBerry does not have any BlackBerry 10 devices to replace my Q10.

That means I can save money on buying phones.

The Q10/Z10 are 3 years old by now. It is still as smooth as butter. If it were any other manufacturer, the phones would have been hit hard by the planned obsolescence.

Posted via CB10

[jm1219]

I think BlackBerry reached carrying capacity with BB10 the same year it launched: 2013. Had they developed a solid upgrade path for those first adopters, say releasing that Z50 and perhaps a "Q50" in 2015 I honestly believe sales would have matched 2013 give or take. There were also still a good amount of legacy users into 2014; had the Classic been released earlier in 2014 that may have been their upgrade path.

I am not suggesting that sales would have been through the roof, just better than what we have seen. I mean, the problem with BB10 handsets was that there was no real upgrade path as they just released a bunch of random handsets each year. Perhaps the Priv is ultimately the upgrade path for all (BBOS and BB10)? I imagine Chen realizes this and it is one reason why going forward we will only see 1 - 2 new handsets/year. At least MS realized they could stop the bleeding when they stop producing a billion Lumias per year. (and yes, that was an exaggeration but truth is that MS were able to stabilize monetary loss by reducing the number of handsets in production; and they did do quite a few Lumias)



I dunno. I think BlackBerry made the right moves with the Priv; it certainly got people taking notice. Had they played it safe the Priv likely would have flown under many radars. Love it or hate it, a flagship Android with a pkb--and a slider no less--is going to turn some heads.

How many issues did the Galaxy S III have? Or how many will the S7? How about the LG v10? Why can't we just accept that the Priv has a few more issues than "normal" for a debut? I mean we all agree that BB10 rolled out of bed a little too early. Or that releasing the Q10 second was a major blunder (okay, not all believe this). Yet with the Priv out comes the BlackBerry apologists, "But, all smartphones have their issues!"

In the mid-2000s, both Jobs and Gates believed that the post-PC future (tablets, smartphones, the like) would run web-based apps. Ironic.

Chrome is getting there; MS seems to want to turn everything into a subscription service from the cloud....


If you include Google's parent company, Alphabet, then yes, Alphabet slightly beats out Apple for #1 (and thus, Apple is #2). However, if we are only talking about Google than Apple is king by a landside, Microsoft a "distant" second closely followed by Google in third.

Google does not exactly control the Android app ecosystem. They just have the largest piece of that pie.

Lol you can call me a BlackBerry apologist if that helps you sleep at night. All smartphones DO have their issues. Go to the XDA forum for the SIII. The problems people had/have with that phone are endless. I had the S4 and everyone was complaining about everything back then. Bluetooth disconnecting, calls dropping, group texting not working, phone rebooting, phone slowing down to a halt, apps constantly redrawing, back covers not clipping back in, SIM trays loose, home button getting stuck, etc. Endless problems. No, the Priv didn't have more than the normal amount of issues, it's a well built phone from a company who's making phones for a long time just like Samsung.


Oh and the V10? Here's the issues I found just on the first few front pages of one forum. Hardware and software issues and this is a forum for advanced Android users not first timers like CrackBerry.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3268765
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3244749
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3243779
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3251800
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3239687
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3260564
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3257425
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3256927
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3249638
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3269827
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3271032
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3252126
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=3238804


As I said, this is how discussion forums are. People with problems are the loudest people. Don't be ridiculous and think the Priv is unique in its amount of issues.

[HereticHermit]

Will it really bankrupt BlackBerry to update the specs on the Classic and release a new one? The Priv hasn't really saved BlackBerry right?
Why not test the waters and re-up on BlackBerry10?

They did tested water and it was tepid. This happened because the developers Jam party was 2 years late. Then some developers just scammed Blackberry left right and centre by submitting apps that were nothing more than short cuts and got generously paid for nothing. To help the situation further Blackberry did not or could not invest (mental bankruptcy) in marketing. Unlike android that dominated with saturation or Apple that made an emotional connect with their users, Blackberry never tried to make any connection with their users.

While there were no sales worth talking about and the only sterling quality Blackberry had OR had because it was coded in their business practice was to offer a sense of security to their users. They did offered all the secure features with their best capabilities which bb10 took care of. BUT people did not cared for the secure goodies made available to them for their own good and rejected bb10 because it couldn't run top 10 socializing apps or alike stuff.

Helped with all the above, hurt and cash deprived Blackberry regressed even further when no device manufacture was ready to make phones for them unless paid in full advance. Offering another bb10 phone at this point is plain suicidal and Priv is just one more attempt to ride on credit facility they may have worked out with Samsung.

PS: I have no hand in where Blackberry is today nor I actively helped them with delusional launch of Priv. I don't use or care about Twitter or Tinder.

[bqik]

Buy another Classic.

I don't find the Classic outdated.

My daily devices are Classic and Passport SE.

Love the Classic and reminds me the days of 9900.

With BlackBerry 10 OS the Classic with its hardware will be ok for 2-3 more years.

I don't understand the need of a new device each year.



Regards

[Bfalcon1]

You would think someone on this site has an in at Waterloo to get more accurate info. Maybe these layoffs are in the BB10 area and not as many employees are needed for Android?

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Sulaco757]

The iPhone simply just works and two or 3 plus years down the road it will still receive up dates unlike android phones which typically stop after two years to force you into buying a new phone.
I can see why they have sold so many iphones and continue to.

Sorry to burst your bubble on this one... but your newly bought iPhone will need updating due to being forced obsolete by Apple themselves. Android may make their phones obsolete by dropping support for upgrades, but Apple slows down the user experience in non reversible upgrades. Your phone "just works" right now. Two years from now it just won't.

This is how Apple and Android exploit their installed user base every 1-2 years. That is also how they sell so many phones. But due to great brand imaging and some fairly decent user experience for the first year, the installed user base keeps coming back. Also, they are trapped in a fairly closed app ecosystem that cost $100-200 per year. HTML5 is free, not as easy to monetize compared to App Ecosystems.

The reason you're having battery use inconsistencies from the Priv is because of data mining Android Apps. If left to run in the background, it will drain your battery as there is a fairly large data transfer occurring.

 Q10

[TgeekB]

Sorry to burst your bubble on this one... but your newly bought iPhone will need updating due to being forced obsolete by Apple themselves. Android may make their phones obsolete by dropping support for upgrades, but Apple slows down the user experience in non reversible upgrades. Your phone "just works" right now. Two years from now it just won't.

This is how Apple and Android exploit their installed user base every 1-2 years. That is also how they sell so many phones. But due to great brand imaging and some fairly decent user experience for the first year, the installed user base keeps coming back. Also, they are trapped in a fairly closed app ecosystem that cost $100-200 per year. HTML5 is free, not as easy to monetize compared to App Ecosystems.

The reason you're having battery use inconsistencies from the Priv is because of data mining Android Apps. If left to run in the background, it will drain your battery as there is a fairly large data transfer occurring.

 Q10

Well, that's one opinion.

[kvndoom]

Sorry to burst your bubble on this one... but your newly bought iPhone will need updating due to being forced obsolete by Apple themselves. Android may make their phones obsolete by dropping support for upgrades, but Apple slows down the user experience in non reversible upgrades. Your phone "just works" right now. Two years from now it just won't.

This is how Apple and Android exploit their installed user base every 1-2 years. That is also how they sell so many phones. But due to great brand imaging and some fairly decent user experience for the first year, the installed user base keeps coming back. Also, they are trapped in a fairly closed app ecosystem that cost $100-200 per year. HTML5 is free, not as easy to monetize compared to App Ecosystems.

The reason you're having battery use inconsistencies from the Priv is because of data mining Android Apps. If left to run in the background, it will drain your battery as there is a fairly large data transfer occurring.

 Q10

Please PLEASE show me proof of all these "forced obsolete" iphones out there. There are more people still using 2 or 3 year old iphones than there are people who bought all BB10 phones combined, as in ever. Apple updates IOS multiple times a year and owners don't have to wait for stupid carriers to certify the updates.

[Sulaco757]

Well, that's one opinion.

Based on 5 years of owning iPhones. Anyone who has taken care of their hardware and tried to make their Apple iDevices last will know this. But go ahead and use an iPhone 5 when iOS 10 comes out. Or try installing iOS 9 on that iPhone 4s.

It may be one opinion, but one opinion shared by a whole community of people making youtube videos that prove this opinion without anecdotal experience.

Try searching "Update slows down my iPhone/iPad" for yourself.

 Q10

[skstrials]

Please PLEASE show me proof of all these "forced obsolete" iphones out there. There are more people still using 2 or 3 year old iphones than there are people who bought all BB10 phones combined, as in ever. Apple updates IOS multiple times a year and owners don't have to wait for stupid carriers to certify the updates.

Apple has been sued for planned obsolescence for more than once.

Here is 2015:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/...cence-lawsuit/

2013:
http://appadvice.com/appnn/2013/02/a...ence-of-ipad-3

2005:
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/artic...ended_Warranti

Also, their practice of locking down their hardware with sealed in battery means that after two years or so, the customer is forced to pay a hefty price for a battery exchange, so many people just add more money and get a new phone anyways. Sealed in battery makes people pay labour fee + overpriced batteries, for a simple battery change, so this is a form of planned obsolescence.

What is the point of providing (no, forcing) an update, if it is going to slow down the hardware? They might as well not push the update on the older hardware, so that the old phones can at least do the functions that people initially paid for.
Whatever the new function the new OS brings, if the phone is slow, it can't make a call.

Posted via CB10