12-17-12 07:58 AM
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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    It's pretty obvious that RIM has had its stock held to ransom by the media. They need to stop giving people bad ideas.

    As a shareholder, I'd realize that giving the company the resources and until the company comes out with their phone instead of driving the company down to the ground in fending off lawsuits.
    You have to watch out for that media, it will get you!

    I think that these lawsuits would be designed for shareholders that invested in the company and were led to believe that the companies resources were being used so that the new devices would be released in a timely manner to allow RIM to compete.

    Hard to compete when you aren't even in the race anymore.
    07-09-12 05:41 PM
  2. silversun10's Avatar
    what a waste, there will never ever be a law suit......RIM could even use their previous delays as a defense, like the share holders should have expected a delay because we always have delays or they could just refer to previous delays and claim "it happens, it happened before".
    and besides these defenses it is just silly to claim RIM hurt your feelings by delaying BB10, it is just too ridiculous.
    people i have news, you get lied to all the time, but you want to take out on RIM? just unbelievable this negative attitude at Crackberry, you people act like jilted lovers that want to hurt RIM as a payback.
    maddie1128, bungaboy and dagerlach like this.
    07-09-12 05:44 PM
  3. njblackberry's Avatar
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Expect class action lawsuits on behalf of purchasers of RIM stock (not people who have "hurt feelings") to be filed in the next two weeks.
    07-09-12 06:01 PM
  4. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    That's probably mostly true. I'm sure Heins stays as informed as he wants to be on an informal basis.

    There IS a difference between informal status reports and hard milestones, and there's a couple of things to remember: 1) the informal ones are non-binding, just kind of a general "how's things?", and there's no obligation to pass that on to anyone. Such informal checks can actually be counter-productive if they're happening too often or require too much detail 2) Every major project DOES have hard status checks, and that's where the legal reporting requirements come into play.

    I'm guessing that the formal status checks were scheduled for after BBW. They're completely entitled to do that, as long as it didn't violate any other requirements.
    I would tend to agree, if not for statements made which hammered home a commitment. I'm referring to statements like "I promise to you that the whole company is laser-focused on delivering on time and exceeding your expectation.”

    If you're a shareholder or an investor, that doesn't smell of informal status.
    07-09-12 06:45 PM
  5. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    People tend to forget about things that happened last year, but the Internet doesn't forget. (It just gets censored.)
    What is it you're insinuating happened last year that people have forgotten?
    07-09-12 06:55 PM
  6. kdna's Avatar
    This is dumb. Instead of trying to sue them, maybe these people, if they really want RIM to succeed, will put their energies into supporting BB10 Launch Efforts.
    07-09-12 06:57 PM
  7. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    This is dumb. Instead of trying to sue them, maybe these people, if they really want RIM to succeed, will put their energies into supporting BB10 Launch Efforts.
    You mean like investing tons of money into the company? Oh wait... that's what they're doing.
    07-09-12 07:05 PM
  8. kraski's Avatar
    RIMM is where they are today, because they made it so. I believe we should all be accountable for our actions. Sometimes it means taking some hits for poor choices. Whether you like it or not, RIMM too is being held accountable for poor choices.
    I shortened your comments for brevity. And I agree with what you say. But I responded in the way I did because the individual in every recent comment seems to have a vendetta toward RIM beyond the usual level from the trolls.

    With all the RIM screwups, yes there needs to be some accountability. But, for the moment, there are supposedly stockholders who want to see RIM make money and make money for them. There are supposedly lots of BB users chomping at the bit for BB10 phones. The last thing anyone needs is a series of lawsuits draining money out of the company and regulatory investigation to drive away more investors. I'm just suggesting that, even if all that happens, it should be after they've had a chance to stabilize. Not for RIM's sake, but to at least give the investors a chance to make their money back and the customers a chance to have BB10 and a company still around to support it.
    07-09-12 07:44 PM
  9. kraski's Avatar
    I'd like to see both be held accountable because both have misled.

    I would love to see BB10 in the market. I just don't think RIM, in its current form (read - management and structure) can make it successful. They need to find a very strong partner to give them the credibility they need (from both investors and consumers) to not only launch BB10 but give enough confidence to everyone that they will be around to support it.
    That was exactly my point about your suggestion about regulatory investigation. At this point, RIM needs an influx of cash like MS did for Apple back in the day. And some visionary management. Lawsuits and investigations will only drain money and scare away investors.
    07-09-12 07:52 PM
  10. Zirak's Avatar
    I somehow never see anyone suing when they are winning whilst gambling. Just saying.

    And somehow it always seems to be Americans that jump on the bashwagon. I am not defending RIM here, just calling Americans greedy and unwilling to take risks without wanting to take there ball and go home.
    07-09-12 07:57 PM
  11. JasW's Avatar
    I somehow never see anyone suing when they are winning whilst gambling. Just saying.

    And somehow it always seems to be Americans that jump on the bashwagon. I am not defending RIM here, just calling Americans greedy and unwilling to take risks without wanting to take there ball and go home.
    So basically what you are saying is that there has never been a shareholder derivative suit (American OR Canadian, because they exist in the Great White North) that's been well-founded.

    Yeah, it's just greedy American shareholders. Let's all move along -- nothing to see here.
    07-09-12 08:26 PM
  12. silversun10's Avatar
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Expect class action lawsuits on behalf of purchasers of RIM stock (not people who have "hurt feelings") to be filed in the next two weeks.
    never ever, dream on..........how many too big to fail banks got sued, causing a full fledged world crisis? right, still waiting. and you think that RIM is going to get sued over a little white lie(if that?) come on

    never ever, give it up..........
    07-09-12 08:32 PM
  13. rickbansal's Avatar
    That was exactly my point about your suggestion about regulatory investigation. At this point, RIM needs an influx of cash like MS did for Apple back in the day. And some visionary management. Lawsuits and investigations will only drain money and scare away investors.
    Unfortunately,RIM won't get any new visionaries until the "blind who once could barely see" are completely out the way. I suspect it will take a mutiny for that to happen; unless, of course, the BOD decides to sell the Company to Amazon...
    07-09-12 09:05 PM
  14. JasW's Avatar
    never ever, dream on..........how many too big to fail banks got sued, causing a full fledged world crisis? right, still waiting. and you think that RIM is going to get sued over a little white lie(if that?) come on

    never ever, give it up..........
    You are conflating prosecution by the government and private civil lawsuits. Not to mention betraying a lack of familiarity with the world of class action securities litigation. Millions are invested in companies based on what their directors or officers say. That you think losses based on those "little white lies" are or should not be actionable is quite simply not a position grounded in reality.
    chr1sny likes this.
    07-09-12 09:09 PM
  15. njblackberry's Avatar
    never ever, dream on..........how many too big to fail banks got sued, causing a full fledged world crisis? right, still waiting. and you think that RIM is going to get sued over a little white lie(if that?) come on

    never ever, give it up..........
    Right. Uh huh. Really?

    Bank lawsuits:

    Two Shareholders Sue J.P. Morgan Over Trading Losses - WSJ.com
    Citigroup Slapped With Shareholder Lawsuit (NYSE:C) | Wall St. Cheat Sheet
    More Goldman Sachs Lawsuits for Meltdown | Politicol Commentary News
    There Are Two Big Reasons Why Goldman Sachs Just Got Sued For Fraud Again - Business Insider
    Financial Crisis, Legal Boom - Forbes.com
    Merrill Lynch

    Take a look at these. Then come back and state "many too big to fail banks got sued, causing a full fledged world crisis? right, still waiting"

    You have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever been invited to participate in a class action? Have you ever participated in a class action? They happen all the time. I got two invitations (letters) from law firms last week. I tear them up and throw them out.

    Please, talk about something you understand. Shareholder class action lawsuits is not one of them...
    07-09-12 09:15 PM
  16. silversun10's Avatar
    You are conflating prosecution by the government and private civil lawsuits. Not to mention betraying a lack of familiarity with the world of class action securities litigation. Millions are invested in companies based on what their directors or officers say. That you think losses based on those "little white lies" are or should not be actionable is quite simply not a position grounded in reality.
    whatever you say, one thing is certain, never, never will RIM get sued over this, in the first place they did NOTHING WRONG, it is absolutely ridiculous to claim RIM set out to mislead anybody. yes even if there was a case of a little white lie, you still have no case.
    the only thing that becomes overly clear is the Crackberry crowd can't wait to kick RIM while they are down.
    07-09-12 09:24 PM
  17. njblackberry's Avatar
    Your interpretation of doing "NOTHING WRONG" is immaterial. The lawyers will find out some way to sue - this is a civil case and not criminal. The only ones who benefit from class action suits are the lawyers. When stockholders lose A LOT of money (50% since Heins took over; 77% this year and 95% since 4 years ago) suits will follow.

    Keep the faith. Even if you don't know much about class action suits.
    07-09-12 09:26 PM
  18. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    whatever you say, one thing is certain, never, never will RIM get sued over this, in the first place they did NOTHING WRONG, it is absolutely ridiculous to claim RIM set out to mislead anybody. yes even if there was a case of a little white lie, you still have no case.
    the only thing that becomes overly clear is the Crackberry crowd can't wait to kick RIM while they are down.
    And to your point, Heins is going on a serious damage-control tour and FINALLY making some hard commitments about a launch date, hammering the point that he was the one that decided to postpone the launch, not necessarily due to the fact that it wouldn't be ready, but that he wanted to add more features to it. So he has explained himself to the media, and indirectly to potential lawyers who might think of suing.

    No matter what, though, this whole drama is mighty entertaining, I'm logging in to Crackberry a little too much at work...
    07-09-12 09:36 PM
  19. njblackberry's Avatar
    The class action lawyers don't care about what is going to be done.
    They care about what has already happened. Heins is being very open now. But the company has not been particularly forthcoming in the past year. That's the problem.
    07-09-12 09:42 PM
  20. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    You're speaking in generalities. This is class-action securities litigation we're talking about, not some slip and fall at the local supermarket. Also, the author of the piece -- who regularly covers RIM for the NY Times -- interviewed a number of law professors, so he's hardly talking out of his backside. Given the short time frame between Thorsten's BB World pronouncements and his announcement of the delay, their could well be fertile ground for proving that at the time of BB World, he knew there would be a delay.
    Thorsten did a pretty good job in the interview with Al Sacco stating that RIM was on time, and doing well but he felt they could do better and pushing the release date would give them the time to do better.
    On the most recent BlackBerry 10 delay: "I could actually have kept the schedule, if I had made a sacrifice on quality and on platform stability. I decided not to do that, because I need to make sure that when we deliver a BlackBerry, it is best quality...when we ship BlackBerry 10, we will do it at high quality."
    Thorsten Heins
    He could have made that decision before BBworld or the day before announcing the delay. there are enough sound bytes, and reports to make this lawsuit become silly because they can't prove willingly misleading the investing public,

    Coupled with that RIM's track record, AND the fact that Canadian law allows RIM to act in the best interest of the COMPANY unlike the US where the Shareholders best interest is to come first.

    It's just more people like Jaguar financial with their own agendas trying to get media attention
    07-09-12 11:52 PM
  21. kraski's Avatar
    Unfortunately,RIM won't get any new visionaries until the "blind who once could barely see" are completely out the way. I suspect it will take a mutiny for that to happen; unless, of course, the BOD decides to sell the Company to Amazon...
    Let's hope for mutiny. My problem with a buyout is that it might not be aimed at saving the company, but at burying BB10 because it has the potential to kill the rest of the buyer's product line. It's happened before.
    Last edited by kraski; 07-10-12 at 12:22 AM.
    07-10-12 12:18 AM
  22. njblackberry's Avatar
    Coupled with that RIM's track record, AND the fact that Canadian law allows RIM to act in the best interest of the COMPANY unlike the US where the Shareholders best interest is to come first.

    It's just more people like Jaguar financial with their own agendas trying to get media attention
    I'm not sure whether RIM's track record would help or hurt, but these articles may be interesting..

    Lawyers Are Looking to Canada for Shareholder Litigation - WSJ.com
    Majority Shareholder Commences Litigation Against Canadian Mining Company | Directors and Officers Liability Insurance
    : Canadian securities litigation : The D & O Diary

    If the lawyers (US or Canadian) want to file a suit, they will find a class of shareholders and do it.

    Jaguar is just like everyone else - they want to make money. I have no financial interest in Jaguar (whom I've never heard of) or RIM. Until the stock goes a little lower, at lest.
    07-10-12 06:11 AM
  23. JasW's Avatar
    Regardless of RIM's track record, it would have a defense to any suit, which is alluded to in the article, namely that this was just corporate cheerleading by Heins -- "harmless puffery" of the sort engaged in by used car salesmen, and which no one believes. I'm not sure it's enough to discourage suits, though.
    07-10-12 07:33 AM
  24. biohazard79's Avatar
    from what I understand from the article they claim that shareholders would like that RIM brings out BB10 asap, even with errors instead of working a bit longer on it and getting it out with less bugs?
    07-10-12 09:51 AM
  25. njblackberry's Avatar
    What article did you read?
    07-10-12 10:50 AM
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