NYT article - BB10 delay could lead to lawsuits.
- My takeaway from this interesting discussion is a reminder that senior management in public companies cannot say whatever they want. They have an obligation to speak the "truth" to the best of their abilities. It is also a reminder of the value of the public relations departments to help senior management stay on message. When those words can affect the value of a stock, investors have a right to be concerned.
As long as RIM management has followed these simple principles, they don't have to worry about any legal cases against them.07-10-12 11:13 AMLike 0 - Even if any of the "potential" lawsuits had no merit, the stockholders and the press, not the consumers (us), could make it really rough for RIM prior to the "most important BB launch" in RIM's history. If it happens, the months will seem like years from the potential implosion which will probably include a few current/former employees along with the stockholders. By the time it pans out as bogus, the damage could be done.
Last edited by Blacklatino; 07-10-12 at 11:50 PM.
07-10-12 11:47 PMLike 0 - ThunderbuckRetired ModeratorEven if any of the "potential" lawsuits had no merit, the stockholders and the press, not the consumers (us), could make it really rough for RIM prior to the "most important BB launch" in RIM's history. If it happens, the months will seem like years from the potential implosion which will probably include a few current/former employees along with the stockholders. By the time it pans out as bogus, the damage could be done.
I will also say, though, that absent such evidence I do my investment no favors by distracting RIM from a crucial launch.bungaboy likes this.07-11-12 12:01 AMLike 1 - I can tell you, as a RIM shareholder, that if I see clear evidence of fraudulent behavior I will be happy to sign on to whichever class action gets certified first.
I will also say, though, that absent such evidence I do my investment no favors by distracting RIM from a crucial launch.Last edited by Blacklatino; 07-11-12 at 12:54 AM.
07-11-12 12:51 AMLike 0 - Wrong - at least in the US. Filing a suit without a clear basis in fact and law for recovery is not only an offense for which one can be disbarred, it is a violation of court rules for which an attorney can be held in contempt, fined civilly or have criminal charges leveled.
I have never understood this lawyer bashing. Remember cases are almost always brought before a jury. Juries are pretty damn good at seeing throught the BS . Yet so many refuse to accept that a jury sitting in court and hearing the actual testimony is in a better position to decide than someone watching the 6pm news. Let alone this is the only profession whereby the state either requires or strongly encourages at least 20 hours of service to the community in the form of Pro-Bono hours each year. Most of the attorneys I work with exceed 100 hours, many 200 hours helping those less fortunate.07-12-12 10:03 AMLike 0 -
Problem is most people hear crazy a-s media snipits that get blown off into a media dialouge without ever knowing the facts of the case.
For instance here is a made up case - company M purchases a lucrative contract to open drvive through restaurants on state highways. Finds that customers (mostly truckers) complain that coffee gets cold too fast. They do some market testing and have their commercial machines set up to heat their coffee far past where any coffee machine available for retail use is allowed to. To protect customers hands, they use heavy styrofoam cups. Success!
Elderly women, drives through, gets black coffee. Woman tries to take lid off. In doing so and without realizing the coffee is now near boiling and overfilled the coffee spills on her. Woops. Elderly women gets 2nd and 3rd degree burns on legs. Requires multiple surgeries and grafts. Elderly women fails to walk again.
So here's the short story, prepared by expensive publicists and pushed on certain media stations that like to talk about such things. "WOMAN FILES MILLION DOLLAR FRIVOLOUS LAWSUIT BECAUSE COFFEE IS TOO HOT". Never mind the lack of foresight of M to realize coffee that hot could really hurt someone, especially as the cup was so well insulated. The Jury found the woman to be 20% responsible as well for not taking more precautions. But to this day a case similar to this (my case is not based on any events real or otherwise) is considered an example of a frivolous suit.
Hey ever hear the one about the hot tub companies that were sued for tens of millions becuase their filters were too strong. Research it, and pray you have a strong stoumach.
To be frivolous, a case must not state a combination of facts, that when applied to the law, could, in any reasonable judgment result in a verdict in favor of the filing party.
By their very nature, frivolous lawsuits do not result in judgments in favor of the Plaintiff. Because a jury of your fellow citizens must hear the facts and reach a conclusion. It may be easy to fool one or two people out of 12, but not all 12 (Federal) or 9 or 10 (most states), and then have the trial judge not set the verdict aside. -And then in many states there is a seperate trial for damages - with a seperate jury!
When it comes to IP litigation, my18 years of experience observing the profession is that if there is a suit that is more harrassment based, it is almost always coming from a fortune 500 v. another fortune 500. That said, the most talked about cases as being frivolous come when a tiny firm or individual files against an Apple or RIMM, or Johnson and Johnson. If you again spend some time - perhaps on Lexis/Nexis or Westlaw to review transcripts, you will see more often than not a pattern how innovation is often come by with many companies - and it is often not in their own labs. Which is very different than what PR firms routinely release to the media.
Here's another made up case - McDougals is a very famous American restaurant worldwide. There is a Mr. McDougal living in Scotland, who runs a pub/restaurant called McDougals long before the restaurant opened. The restaurant sues him to force him to change the name of his pub/restaurant. The initial PR - "Man tries to steal McDougal's name and business."
Another - A FL paramedic comes up with an idea for delivering topical medicine by cobining it with an oversized band-aid. Makes a few mock-ups files for a patent, and shops the idea around. ALl the big guys meet with her, but then say no. A year later her product is on store shelves all over the US rebranded, and the companies she visited applied for competing new patents. Product is named innovation of the year. FL -paramedic still pursuing case.
Frivolous law suits? Its an excuse to pass laws that lower punitive damages from companies that use actuarial tables to determine how much losses they can sustain when they miss or ignore engineers that tell them their products can be harmful, or engage in other bad acts. Anyone who truly has faith in their country, must have faith in their citizenry to make decent, well thought out decisions when they sit on juries - otherwise why bother with having any law at all?JasW likes this.07-12-12 11:19 AMLike 1 - I would prefer they communicate with some intelligence and honesty as opposed to TOP SECRET silence like HP did to webOS. Saying nothing at all is a lie and misrepresentation too.07-12-12 11:25 AMLike 0
- ThunderbuckRetired Moderator
And RIM has been pretty forthcoming about BB10. What would you like to know that they haven't already disclosed? I'm willing to bet that any answer you could give to that question would be a legitimate trade secret.07-12-12 12:11 PMLike 0 - amazinglygracelessRetired Mod
replaced is an inconvenience and does not even rise to the level of what
is being highlighted in this article.Blacklatino likes this.07-12-12 12:34 PMLike 1 - amazinglygracelessRetired Mod
dealing with frivolous litigation.
Tort reform (as I understand it) is more an issue of limiting the award for damages,
that is the amount necessary to restore the injured party to the state they were
in prior to suffering the injury (commonly known as "making a person whole".)
There are a few in this thread that are more legally versed than I that can
flesh this out much better.bungaboy likes this.07-12-12 07:09 PMLike 1 - Not exactly. Every jurisdiction in the US already has mechanisms in place for
dealing with frivolous litigation.
Tort reform (as I understand it) is more an issue of limiting the award for damages,
that is the amount necessary to restore the injured party to the state they were
in prior to suffering the injury (commonly known as "making a person whole".)
There are a few in this thread that are more legally versed than I that can
flesh this out much better.07-12-12 07:59 PMLike 0 - I knew I heard something about tort reform recently.
In 2010, President Barack Obama gave a speech addressing the issue of tort reform: "(t)he class action system was never intended to be a casino for lawyers to obtain jackpot attorney's fees. The class action system was created with the best of intentions- to protect consumers by allowing individuals with small, similar claims to be joined in one lawsuit. But unfortunately, it has been turned on its head, taking money from those it was meant to protect- consumers and shareholders- and making lawyers filthy rich."07-12-12 08:12 PMLike 0 -
That's class action reform, a whole different animal. Probably more apropos to this thread, though.07-12-12 09:23 PMLike 0 -
I am glad you call it a legal system. It is certainly not a justice system.
I am flattered that you quote me 3 times in one post.
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2 (I try Android once in a while)07-12-12 10:18 PMLike 0 -
As 1magine also indicated, the number of cases that are "made up by the legal profession" -- I presume you mean genuinely frivolous -- is absolutely miniscule. Actually, most frivolous lawsuits are not even brought by attorneys -- they are brought by crackpot pro se plaintiffs.07-13-12 06:02 AMLike 0 - amazinglygracelessRetired Mod
Not sure what your Apple point was since Apple was not in any way the focus of this article.07-21-12 09:08 AMLike 0 - Are you saying the window to file a lawsuit has closed? I don't think it has. You may be making premature proclamations...07-21-12 01:23 PMLike 0
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NYT article - BB10 delay could lead to lawsuits.
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