1. dusanvn's Avatar
    Hello,

    We all know what is PKB and VKB. Those who ever use a Galaxy Note know what is physical capacitive touch Back/Menu/Home buttons. Those who ever use an iPhone 7 know what is physical force touch Home button. These buttons are examples of _non-mechanical_ physical buttons, or keys, whatever, i.e. physical buttons/keys without moving parts but still provide some tactile feedback. Now, we know what a non-mechanical PKB roughly is.

    What do you think about a smartphone with non-mechanical PKB?

    The idea has came to me since I dislike both VKB and (mechanical) PKB. I dislike VKB for lack of tactile feel and poor feedback. I dislike (mechanical) PKB for lack of water and dust resistance and durability -- I'm referring to frequent double typing keys and medically dead keys on latter BlackBerry PKBs.

    I presented this idea here on CB some years ago under title 'iPhone 7'. It was deleted by moderator. I presented it once again under title 'Passport 2'. It was ignored.

    But I still believe the idea can buy you, since good ideas are usually unexpected ones. So now, as the iPhone 7 was released and Passport 2 was (almost surely) known to be never released, ever, I try to present this idea for the third, and last, time.

    Thank you.

    Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.
    09-30-16 03:09 PM
  2. Yertie's Avatar
    The idea doesn't appeal to me at all, but I'm open to being persuaded otherwise. I must say, I'm pretty impressed with how my Passport keyboard is holding up. I was worried about it, being exposed all the time, but it's still clean and works perfectly. I really can't imagine being satisfied without the mechanical clickyness though.
    09-30-16 05:18 PM
  3. medic22003's Avatar
    I dont have an issue with my price keyboard. Kinda like the click. By the same token I like the BlackBerry vkb as well. I can't see where doing different has any benefits but hey each to their own

    Posted with my shiny new Priv
    09-30-16 06:14 PM
  4. deadcowboy's Avatar
    The idea doesn't appeal to me at all, but I'm open to being persuaded otherwise. I must say, I'm pretty impressed with how my Passport keyboard is holding up. I was worried about it, being exposed all the time, but it's still clean and works perfectly. I really can't imagine being satisfied without the mechanical clickyness though.
    The mechanical clickiness is what saves my thumb joints. Pressing on a capacitive button that requires varying degrees of pressure is a recipe for disaster, imo (worse than a normal touch screen I'd imagine due to pressure requirements that might sublux the joint). And I don't doubt that we'll be seeing people with thumb injuries due to the iPhone 7's new home button.

    And don't laugh, we need to keep our hands and fingers healthy, especially as we age. I don't want arthritis, it can be debilitating. I've had carpal tunnel, and it was awful. I switched back to my Passport from my iPhone SE, and my thumbs already feel healthier (the iPhone SE was causing me a lot of joint pain, and that's not uncommon).

    Posted via CB10
    Yertie likes this.
    09-30-16 06:47 PM
  5. chain13's Avatar
    I will say that vkb is catching up now. First time I saw passport's keyboard features, I thought it was great. Until recently I know that many vkb developers has implemented almost the same features. Swipe left to delete, swipe to move the cursor, swipe hold to choose external characters etc. I just found that vkb is all about software that's easier to maintain, develop and update. While pkb is harder to develop because it really depends on the mechanical hardware quality which I always have bad experiences with (double type, each buttons didn't have the same clickiness etc etc).
    09-30-16 07:13 PM
  6. Yertie's Avatar
    I must admit, I do find those swipe to type virtual keyboard pretty interesting -- still clinging to the PKB while it's still around though.
    10-01-16 03:33 AM
  7. medic22003's Avatar
    I really hate the swype keyboards. The only thing was they were a little faster than actually typing on a vkb for me. Then I tried bb10 and the BlackBerry vkb was awesome. Still the best vkb available in my opinion. The flick function of both the vkb and pkb on BlackBerry make typing very fast and more importantly accurate for me.

    Posted with my shiny new Priv
    10-11-16 10:21 AM
  8. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    I still wish they would have adopted or perfected this technology....

    http://forums.crackberry.com/general...ology-1067756/

    It's something of a hybrid of both non-mechanical and mechanical.

    "The 99's charms will tug at your heart. Nothing else ever approached such exquisite perfection"-idssteve
    10-11-16 11:19 AM
  9. skstrials's Avatar
    There are waterproof and dust resistant phones with physical keyboards.

    Also, mechanical pkbs that can be easily replaced when broken solves the longevity issue.

    I want an easily serviced phone hardware which is getting hard to be found nowadays.

    Posted via CB10
    10-11-16 01:39 PM
  10. stlabrat's Avatar
    haptic keyboard? you need two sensors based on iphone patent. one to generate vib (just like your joystick fly aircraft of force feedback) and other to cancel the vib at un-wanted area to create localized effect.. if you want it, you pay for it. The physical KB got touch and feel that help for locate keys... especailly, BB keyboard... VKB got benefit of easy for water proof, dust proof and utilize full screen size by remove it when it not in need. if you can voice control everything, eliminate the KB is easy, but not physical key board. haptic, just extension of VKB but more money...
    10-11-16 02:11 PM
  11. SunshineStateFlyer's Avatar
    The market for such a keyboard would be almost non-existent.

    Even the classic physical keyboards are hard to sell because people are actually happy to type on their screens. It's only a small share of people that prefer physical keyboards.

    A pkb takes a massive amount of screen away and, in addition, usually makes a phone more bulky.

    Now, your keyboard would basically have most of the disadvantages of a classic physical keyboard but without having the feeling of a real keyboard. Where's the point in that?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    10-11-16 02:27 PM
  12. stlabrat's Avatar
    The market for such a keyboard would be almost non-existent.

    Even the classic physical keyboards are hard to sell because people are actually happy to type on their screens. It's only a small share of people that prefer physical keyboards.

    A pkb takes a massive amount of screen away and, in addition, usually makes a phone more bulky.

    Now, your keyboard would basically have most of the disadvantages of a classic physical keyboard but without having the feeling of a real keyboard. Where's the point in that?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    not really, many wanted KB - unlimited texting, twitter type... but they also want other stuff, like app. if you are rely on banking app, that is not supported by BB, that is a problem. KB, especially BB KB plus convenient key on the side of the device, are really loved, but the eco-system is the problem...(limited app for square screen and missing key apps for many chaps are the killer... not the demand of physical KB).
    10-11-16 02:51 PM
  13. dusanvn's Avatar
    ...

    Now, your keyboard would basically have most of the disadvantages of a classic physical keyboard but without having the feeling of a real keyboard. Where's the point in that?

    ...
    You seems to have assumed that a non-mechanical PKB is just a secondary planar touch panel that constantly displays the key layout. It may be such, but not necessarily be such.

    -- With a touch force sensor, it can distinguish between touching (ie. swiping) and pressing (ie. typing).

    -- With a vibrator, it can provide haptic feedback precisely at the spot you press.

    -- Finally with a properly shaped surface, which isn't flatly planar, it can give you the feeling of touching a real keyboard.



    Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.
    10-12-16 10:26 AM
  14. Allan Milo's Avatar
    Sounds interesting. Is the tactile feel just when you press or before you press? Is the Iphone 7 the only phone using it at the moment?

    Posted via CB10
    10-12-16 11:25 AM
  15. stlabrat's Avatar
    You seems to have assumed that a non-mechanical PKB is just a secondary planar touch panel that constantly displays the key layout. It may be such, but not necessarily be such.

    -- With a touch force sensor, it can distinguish between touching (ie. swiping) and pressing (ie. typing).

    -- With a vibrator, it can provide haptic feedback precisely at the spot you press.

    -- Finally with a properly shaped surface, which isn't flatly planar, it can give you the feeling of touching a real keyboard.



    Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.
    properly shaped surface will not be able to use the area as display screen if you move it away... you lost real estate for display (optical distortion) even it is transparent. haptic feedback, how much you would like to pay? 25-$50 per unit? (a bit slow response... due to extra processing time required, - or extra processing power required - software, you might get killed if you play game with someone just because of delay... or try to beat someone posting the latest tweet ;-).
    10-12-16 12:08 PM
  16. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Hello,
    ....

    I presented this idea here on CB some years ago under title 'iPhone 7'. It was deleted by moderator. I presented it once again under title 'Passport 2'. It was ignored.

    But I still believe the idea can buy you, since good ideas are usually unexpected ones. So now, as the iPhone 7 was released and Passport 2 was (almost surely) known to be never released, ever, I try to present this idea for the third, and last, time.

    Thank you.

    Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.
    Talking about clicking ^, you need to create stronger click-bait titles, the first ones weren't good enough in the day and age of Outbrain and Taboola...

    ;-D


    Maybe this "one weird trick" might help...


      "Chenterprise. We are the future. Resistance is futile. Prepare to BBe... "  
    10-12-16 10:32 PM
  17. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Whether such a keyboard can offer any benefits over the traditional PKB strongly depends on the implementation.

    If it looks the same, feels the same, and (almost) works the same, I'd be fine... :-)

      "Chenterprise. We are the future. Resistance is futile. Prepare to BBe... "  
    10-12-16 10:36 PM
  18. Exoskell256's Avatar
    I agree with stlabrat, in order to make it 'feel' right to the touch you're going to have to put a bunch of sculpting on the keys and it's going to mess with the visibility of any screen under it (see how the light reflects off an actual PKB versus the screen above it) so you pretty much are forced to leave it as permanent keyboard space.

    That said, it could be something people could get used to. After switching from the iPhone 6s to the 7, I've gotten used to the home button though it's still palpably different. I wonder how coarse you could get with the haptic feedback and still feel acceptable though (2 regions? 3?)
    10-12-16 11:28 PM
  19. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Reliability would be improved.

    I thought that the PKB should be a plug n play module.

    Posted via CB10
    10-13-16 01:42 AM
  20. Chemy JMHT's Avatar
    I think there has to be a way to do a PKB good enough to handle dust and water, hopefully not more expensive, but I don't know why there is a huge effort to kill the PKB at all, I don't like the VKB but I think it's just me so far.
    10-28-16 05:06 PM

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