[Joy1980]

For those people who say the Wp8 is DOA. it's clearly not. you guys need to by so immature. Look I'm not against BB10. but you guys need to stop saying that things are DOA.

if it is DOA. then why has HTC's and Nokia's Windows phones have been on backorder, Sold out?
Large demand for HTC Windows Phones witnessed in Philippines | Windows Phone Central
Attachment 128978
Its without a doubt the HTC phones are selling well
Windows Phone 8S by HTC sold out at Virgin Mobile Canada | Windows Phone Central
Second batch of the Lumia 920 available at Expansys, already sold out at Clove | Windows Phone Central
Black, cyan Nokia Lumia 920 sold out at AT&T | Windows Phone Central
Black, cyan Nokia Lumia 920 sold out at AT&T | Windows Phone Central
Lumia 920 sold out at Expansys UK, tops chart with HTC 8X closely behind | Windows Phone Central

Look. I'm not Against RIM or BB10. I'll welcome them to the competition. But saying Wp8 is DOA is just idiotic and stupid.

Being sold out does not mean anything. You need concrete numbers before you can say that means anything.

[SparkyBC]

For those people who say the Wp8 is DOA. it's clearly not. you guys need to by so immature. Look I'm not against BB10. but you guys need to stop saying that things are DOA.

if it is DOA. then why has HTC's and Nokia's Windows phones have been on backorder, Sold out?
Large demand for HTC Windows Phones witnessed in Philippines | Windows Phone Central

Its without a doubt the HTC phones are selling well. How is the Windows phones?. My friend was there he was number 196. and the line was massive. almost everybody that was in that line wanted a HTC Windows phone. Most of them are 8S
Look. I'm not Against RIM or BB10. I'll welcome them to the competition. But saying Wp8 is DOA is just idiotic and stupid.

Anyone location can sell out. How many devices did they have in the first place? Also Microsoft has been known to make fake lines and employees purchase from a regular location to make some hype.. Still you can go anywhere on any given day and you will not see anyone with a windows phone. It's FACT.

The surface was sold out in locations as well with a big stock count of 10. Doesn't mean a thing It's already known The surface is another commercial failure with slow sales... The WP7 or WP8 will NOT gain any traction. Microsoft already screwed WP7 users and will offer a golden egg a "LOOK" like WP8 so they don't **** them off anymore. Most people being screwed not being able to upgraded their phones to WP8 will NOT be buying a new WP8 phone.

[12Danny123]

dude. it's the same thing with BB man. the reason. why Wp7 users weren't able to upgrade to wp8 is because the hardware limitations and the kernel. Wp8 has NOTHING in common with Wp7. Wp8 has the NT one. which is the same one on Win 8 and Wp7 has the CE one. Same thing with BB. BB10 has nothing in common to BBOS7. because of the hardware and the kernel.


whatever transition is happening to Wp is happening to BB to.

[SuperionMaximus]

It's really simple.

The debate in the media is who is going to emerge as the undisputed 3rd major player between BlackBerry 10 and Windows Phone.

Nokia is PART of Windows Phone

RIM is ALL OF BlackBerry 10

So assuming RIM is successful in launching BlackBerry 10, Nokia has no chance of ever overtaking BlackBerry in Smart Phone market share. Even if Nokia ends up having 80% of Windows Phone's share, that's still just a fraction of what RIM will sell all by it's self as the world's premiere mobile computing and Machine to Machine company. Nokia will be valuable for its assets but if it can't validate Windows Phone it's parts may be work more divided then the company is worth as a whole.

The NOC may not bring in the revenue it used to from carriers, but RIM clearly has plans to supplement that income through M2M services for the multitude of companies who use QNX. There is new business opportunities for RIM in industries that no one 5 years ago would have ever believed RIM would be involved in.

[notfanboy]

I would have to give the edge to RIM.

The reason is BlackBerry 10 is aiming at the whole market. RIM isn't fighting for share within an ecosystem, they are an ecosystem. Nokia is competing against Samsung and and HTC within Windows Phone and also those same players Android Phones. Even if Nokia gets the lions share of Windows Phone that's still only a subset of the market. RIM is competing with Windows Phone, Android and iOS. Owning the Platform and being vertically integrated gives RIM the edge long term without a doubt.

It cuts both ways. Sure RIM is their own ecosystem, but what kind of ecosystem is it?

It will have the smallest app store, and the reviews will not fail to mention this. (Source: all Windows phone reviews). It will launch with a ton of junk apps and hasty code-a-thon ports. Compounding the issue, users know that the next future hot app will most probably show up on iOS and Android first, and it may be months before it makes it way to WP8 and BB10 if at all.

iTunes is the worlds's biggest music retailer. In the United States,. Android has Amazon. The Google Play store just made a big move in the United States by allowing you to match up to 20,000 songs you already own to their store. WP7 has the XBox music store, a poor cousin to the previous. But the BB Music Store is even worse.

With movies and tv shows, same story. The BB video store is just embarrassing in comparison.

Apple has Apple TV. Microsoft has XBox. Android has Youtube. RIM?

Books and magazines are dominated by iOS and Android as well. I don't even know what Microsoft or RIM has to offer in this space.

Gaming. Nothing comes close to gaming on iOS. Microsoft has the XBox, but it remains to be seen how WP7 will take advantage of this. Compared to the apps, music, video, and books, gaming might be RIM's strong point because they have provided tools to port games to BB10.

Web services. Google rules here. Search, Gmail, GDrive, Maps. Microsoft has strength with Outlook, Bing, Skydrive. This isn't Apple's strong point but they have iCloud at least. Does the RIM ecosystem have anything in this space?

Other platform devices. Microsoft still owns the desktop, and they have the Surface tablets. Apple has the iPad, Mac laptops and desktops. Android has a a ton of tablet offerings, last seen gaining the iPad with 40% of the market. RIM has a two year old tablet with a poor rep in the marketplace.

RIM does have QNX in cars. If they do some integration with smartphones in the future, they'll have to support Android and iOS otherwise they'll lose 80% of the market.

[JeepBB]

I know about that.. I'm just saying Wp8 is DOA is pretty Stupid

I agree with you, but you are still wasting your breath. And now, so am I.

Despite the many positive reviews of WP8 and the fact that WP8 handsets (particularly the Nokia Lumia series - to tie it back to OP) are selling like hot-cakes everywhere to the point that there are stock shortages, the die-hards here on CB will still claim it's DOA or that the shortages are artificially engineered by Microsoft evil-doers.

You won't change any of those closed minds by presenting evidence of how well WP8 phones are selling, as you did earlier, so let them have their fun!

[RubberChicken76]

I agree with you, but you are still wasting your breath. And now, so am I.

Despite the many positive reviews of WP8 and the fact that WP8 handsets (particularly the Nokia Lumia series - to tie it back to OP) are selling like hot-cakes everywhere to the point that there are stock shortages, the die-hards here on CB will still claim it's DOA or that the shortages are artificially engineered by Microsoft evil-doers.

You won't change any of those closed minds by presenting evidence of how well WP8 phones are selling, as you did earlier, so let them have their fun!

I like Windows Phone plenty and think it's silly to write it off. But not buying the "selling like hotcakes everywhere" argument either. There is evidence that it is starting to gain traction but other evidence to suggest that "sell outs" are because the stores didn't get many in store in the first place.

rather that proclaiming it DOA or "selling like hotcakes", let us wait for Nokia's results in January and see what they say.

[JeepBB]

I like Windows Phone plenty and think it's silly to write it off. But not buying the "selling like hotcakes everywhere" argument either. There is evidence that it is starting to gain traction but other evidence to suggest that "sell outs" are because the stores didn't get many in store in the first place.

rather that proclaiming it DOA or "selling like hotcakes", let us wait for Nokia's results in January and see what they say.

Damn! A sensible, reasoned argument... am I on the wrong site? LOL

I've read elsewhere that Nokia didn't anticipate the amount of sales that the Lumias seem to be generating and that they simply can't make enough handsets to satisfy the demand. One report said that their production capacity peaks at 600k units/month across all models. So your point about some of the sell out being due to the stores not having enough to sell is very likely true. If so, it must be extremely frustrating to Nokia to have a "winner" on their hands, but to be unable to turn that into sales.

[RubberChicken76]

One report said that their production capacity peaks at 600k units/month across all models.

Hmm ... that seems light to me. That would suggest Nokia can only put out 1.8 million smartphones a quarter (or phones overall). I think they're still selling several times that a quarter.

If so, it must be extremely frustrating to Nokia to have a "winner" on their hands, but to be unable to turn that into sales.

I have heard from sources that the 920 is selling a lot better than Windows Phones predecessors but that stores were cautious in ordering it. Looking forward to Nokia's results.

[RubberChicken76]

I really don't think there's room for four os's at once imo...

Well, in the world right now, there are four OSes with sizeable bases:

Android, iOS, Symbian and BlackBerry. Symbian is fading and Windows Phone is emerging.

This to me suggests that it's entirely possible.

[anon(2809354)]

dude. it's the same thing with BB man. the reason. why Wp7 users weren't able to upgrade to wp8 is because the hardware limitations and the kernel. Wp8 has NOTHING in common with Wp7. Wp8 has the NT one. which is the same one on Win 8 and Wp7 has the CE one. Same thing with BB. BB10 has nothing in common to BBOS7. because of the hardware and the kernel.


whatever transition is happening to Wp is happening to BB to.

I just don't see it.

[Tiassa]

Let us also remember that MSFT is famous for "pulling the rug" out from under their "partners" when they decide that they aren't meeting their sales or market penetration goals. RIMM can't do that to BB10.

[Nindia]

I hope both of them succeed.

[Dapper37]

I would have to give the edge to RIM.

The reason is BlackBerry 10 is aiming at the whole market. RIM isn't fighting for share within an ecosystem, they are an ecosystem. Nokia is competing against Samsung and and HTC within Windows Phone and also those same players Android Phones. Even if Nokia gets the lions share of Windows Phone that's still only a subset of the market. RIM is competing with Windows Phone, Android and iOS. Owning the Platform and being vertically integrated gives RIM the edge long term without a doubt.

I agree completely, I'll add the the carriers will like the RIM model better as they have one point of contact instead of dealing with all the manufacturers plus MS for the one platform. That plus the potential m2m revenue RIM will start to offer. Rims integrated approach stands out to me as the more successful. That's not to say there is not room for Nokia.

[sexybabe88]

microsoft players have a huge advantage - integration of the wp8 phones with w8.

i'm looking forward to seeing how RIM will counter on the 30th

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[Roo Zilla]

Nokia has a better chance because of China and a subsidy deal with China Mobile. They plan to sell the 920T for 1RMB (about 16 cents) with a 2 year contract. Normally people pay upfront for the phone, and get a discount every month for service with a contract. There's a budget limit on the subsidy deal, but it's probably enough to get at least a couple million out the door really fast. Lines like the one shown in the photo on Dec. 23rd show Nokia is still very popular in China.

You add Nokia's other non-smartphone related businesses, like telecom equipment and location services, and odds are Nokia has a better chance than RIM.



EDIT: The people in the photo are lining up to buy a regular 920, which was just released, for 4600RMB.

[o4liberty]

Rim needs a big win with BB10 to survive were as Nokia just needs to sell more devices. If Rim can pull off a successful launch and the new product takes off then Rim will be the sure winner.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

[sexybabe88]

Nokia has a better chance because of China and a subsidy deal with China Mobile. They plan to sell the 920T for 1RMB (about 16 cents) with a 2 year contract. Normally people pay upfront for the phone, and get a discount every month for service with a contract. There's a budget limit on the subsidy deal, but it's probably enough to get at least a couple million out the door really fast. Lines like the one shown in the photo on Dec. 23rd show Nokia is still very popular in China.

You add Nokia's other non-smartphone related businesses, like telecom equipment and location services, and odds are Nokia has a better chance than RIM.

http://nokiapoweruser.files.wordpres..._136.jpg?w=710

EDIT: The people in the photo are lining up to buy a regular 920, which was just released, for 4600RMB.

that's pretty sick. i don't think nokia can take such a loss; i think microsoft is definitely involved too.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[bitek]

Nokia has to compete with Samsung and other Windows Phone 8 makes and soon with Microsoft as well in addition to ios and android. My bet is for RIM.

[PTZ]

Seems like you are are over reacting. Everybody is a troll who has an opinion you do not agree with mrfreetruth? Come here to cry? I like the input of different opinions, maybe that is just me. This is a reply to an earlier post. I hope both oss grow, I like them both.