[JeepBB]

I seem to remember it first being slated for an August, 2012 release and then it got pushed back to October/November, then January (March for the USA). Am I remembering that right?

That's my recollection too.


Everyone was expecting late summer, then hints were dropped that it might be October, then Thor made the "Ah..." announcement late June to say it was to be Q1 of 2013. Here in the UK we could actually buy one in early February with the super-awesome (joking!) 10.0 OS.


When the Z10 was released, there was a collective sharp intake of breath at how woefully incomplete BB10 was... even on the CB forums the disappointment was clear... and BB's year just got worse from there. 😐


JBB

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I seem to remember it first being slated for an August, 2012 release and then it got pushed back to October/November, then January (March for the USA). Am I remembering that right?

Not sure what the official first launch date was, but Jan/Feb of 2012 was the launch window that the chip-set delay interfered with and pushed it back until the August 2012 date.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabet...its-future-on/

Other analysts were less focused on the technology than the delay itself, which looks to be several months since BlackBerry 10 phones were previously expected in the first quarter of 2012. In a note, Nomura Securities’ Stuart Jeffrey warned, “We see a high risk that this is too late to turn around RIM’s position and believe the risk of further delays is meaningful.”

Also intersing was

In a Dec. 16 note to investors, Long declared the reasoning “makes no sense.” While highly developed telecom markets like the U.S. are focused on 4G/LTE phones, RIM now derives most of its device sales – Long estimates 80% — from outside the U.S. In those markets, “there is no 4G push,” Long pointed out.

If so much of BlackBerry's business came from outside the US where 4G was not an issue.... why drop BIS to begin with?

[blueyestm]

The ATT store closest to my home had no Z10 on display. There was a Q10 but no other BB phones the day we were in the store. One manager had a Z10 in his pocket. That had to serve as a demo for my first touching the phone. Bought and never looked back.

When Z30 came along the local Verizon store had one display but none to sell. Bought that one online after using the Verizon demo model.

How anyone can be honest about American carriers and not say they failed to support BB10 is beyond my comprehension.

4 stores in my area had ZERO blackberry phones on display or physically in the store.

[richardat]

It is an unfortunate situation blackberry is in.

Firstly, I thought the z10 didn't sell well in any region: Hence the massive write-down of stock?

Secondly - well I personally wouldn't go so far as to say bb10 stood no chance right out of the gate. I think blackberry did not capitalise on marketing, their timings for actually delivering products to the consumer space is way off - and yes: Their perception has been severely damaged.

Well understand - and I explained this thoroughly in posts back in that time - that when I say that, I'm not saying that BB10 OS itself was so terrible that it stood no chance...though I am saying that BB10 product as a whole was so weak it stood no chance.

Without going into great detail again, I'd simply sum that up as saying: if you come with a overall decent catch-up product, that even has some cool perks (but nothing mind-boggling or enough to WOW people), that has no connection to your previous user-base(a general example: compatibility with previous software etc), has a few bugs (nothing TOO terrible, but the creaks and groans of a 1st gen product - and despite all the time - what looked like a rushed one), and worst of all - not having FIRST CLASS TOP APP SUPPORT.....and you go in against 2 giants, with mature polished products, a massive catalog of apps, and at the very least a decently satisfactory experience for most users, you are in deep, deep, deep trouble.

That's the main reason why I knew they had no chance - throw in the extra co-factors: limited resources, lack of focus, an ever increasingly bad reputation, and inept marketing.....it's the perfect storm for a disaster.

[richardat]

even if the carrier are not losing money pushing BB10 (arguably, they still have to spend money to update software, delivery cost, paying the phone in advance etc)....but BB10 are not bringing customer either...

the number one priority, best display placement, best promotion push, best support always belong to product that can bring carrier lot of money...for other product that have low mindshare, than it is their own job to promote their own product..

the one who have better leverage will rules....it is how business works

Yes. Think of it this way silversmith75, these are huge money, giant corporations. Time is money. Space is money. Advertising is money. If you were them, you would calculate: OK, we gave this much of our advertising space and time to BB (print, commercials, signs....every aspect), we gave this much shelfspace to BB...now, how much did we lose in sales had we devoted those same resources to ios/Android.....that IS money lost to them.

[Troy Tiscareno]

How could the carriers lose money on bb10. Maybe in stock. But the never pushed it most never put displays out. Those who did most time the phone never worked or battery was dead so the phone could never be tested. My local future shop the z10 they have on display since day 1 has never worked the batter is dead

Most carriers had big displays up on launch day (or very soon thereafter). They set aside space in their store, they ran ads in local newspapers, and they tied up a lot of their money by buying BB10 phones to stock, assuming a much higher level of sales. That's money they couldn't use to buy other phones that would have sold.

Then there were a LOT of returns. Some people just couldn't adjust to the gestures. Some couldn't figure out how to get their emails working. Some had physical problems with the phones - screens popping out of the frame and loose batteries were both fairly common problems. And perhaps the worst of all was the "random reboot bug" that existed with 10.0, and wasn't fixed on some carriers for 6 months after launch.

Returns cost a carrier HUGE amounts of money, not just in the phones themselves, but in all of the time it takes their in-store salespeople to process a return and issue another new device.

So, yes, from a carrier's point of view as a retailer, all of those factors add up to big monetary losses. Even Kevin noted again and again how critical it was for BB to execute perfectly with the BB10 launch, and I don't think anyone can argue that they were even close to perfect. BB is playing in the Big Leagues, against Apple, Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola, and Nokia, among others, and all of them know how to get these details right, or at least, understand that if they don't, their sales will suffer in a big way.

Carriers haven't been happy with BB since the Storm 1 was released (claimed by BB to be the "iPhone Killer"), and yet they continued to support BB for years, but after so many tries and failures, they weren't going to keep doing that forever.

[Poirots Progeny]

Well understand - and I explained this thoroughly in posts back in that time - that when I say that, I'm not saying that BB10 OS itself was so terrible that it stood no chance...though I am saying that BB10 product as a whole was so weak it stood no chance.

Without going into great detail again, I'd simply sum that up as saying: if you come with a overall decent catch-up product, that even has some cool perks (but nothing mind-boggling or enough to WOW people), that has no connection to your previous user-base(a general example: compatibility with previous software etc), has a few bugs (nothing TOO terrible, but the creaks and groans of a 1st gen product - and despite all the time - what looked like a rushed one), and worst of all - not having FIRST CLASS TOP APP SUPPORT.....and you go in against 2 giants, with mature polished products, a massive catalog of apps, and at the very least a decently satisfactory experience for most users, you are in deep, deep, deep trouble.

That's the main reason why I knew they had no chance - throw in the extra co-factors: limited resources, lack of focus, an ever increasingly bad reputation, and inept marketing.....it's the perfect storm for a disaster.

I agree with you there - the total "package", as it were; that is what let them down. The delivery. The execution. Perfect storm indeed.



Sent from Tapatalk

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Well understand - and I explained this thoroughly in posts back in that time - that when I say that, I'm not saying that BB10 OS itself was so terrible that it stood no chance...though I am saying that BB10 product as a whole was so weak it stood no chance.

Without going into great detail again, I'd simply sum that up as saying: if you come with a overall decent catch-up product, that even has some cool perks (but nothing mind-boggling or enough to WOW people), that has no connection to your previous user-base(a general example: compatibility with previous software etc), has a few bugs (nothing TOO terrible, but the creaks and groans of a 1st gen product - and despite all the time - what looked like a rushed one), and worst of all - not having FIRST CLASS TOP APP SUPPORT.....and you go in against 2 giants, with mature polished products, a massive catalog of apps, and at the very least a decently satisfactory experience for most users, you are in deep, deep, deep trouble.

That's the main reason why I knew they had no chance - throw in the extra co-factors: limited resources, lack of focus, an ever increasingly bad reputation, and inept marketing.....it's the perfect storm for a disaster.

Resources... are even more limited.
Focus... one minute they are prosumer, then it Enterprise, but yet what is the Z3 aimed at?
Reputation... after the "we are for sale" and the poor showing of BB10 their reputation has only fallen.
Marketing... I've seen no sign of marketing in my area - other than pictures on CrackBerry of a race car. Did see one post where they had some big ads in Indonesia, unfortunately the poster couldn't get the people in the BlackBerry stores to sell him a Z30 for the price advertised.

They talk a lot about being a Software and Services company... but revenues on Software (7%) and Services (56%) fell from $720 Million to $614 Million from the 3rd to 4th quarter - due to losses in hardware and thus subscriptions. But I DON'T care about a Software and Services only BlackBerry!

[JeepBB]

They talk a lot about being a Software and Services company... but revenues on Software (7%) and Services (56%) fell from $720 Million to $614 Million from the 3rd to 4th quarter - due to losses in hardware and thus subscriptions. But I DON'T care about a Software and Services only BlackBerry!

And the bolded bit is the crux of the matter I reckon.

I doubt that BB, as a company, will go under - though there are tough times ahead and it's not a certainty. However, when they achieve Chen's stated plan of becoming an enterprise-focused, software & services company, a plan with the obvious flip-side that consumer-focused hardware becomes peripheral; why would any BB consumer care?

Sometimes it seems to me that BB has gone (or is going) full-circle. They started in enterprise and the handsets "escaped" into the mainstream consumer world because they offered killer features that took the world at the time by storm (push email & BBM). Once BB becomes an enterprise-company again, I can't see the cycle repeating... BB10 has been clearly rejected by the market and it's hard to discern any killer features of BB10 that would lead BB handsets to escape into the mainstream again.

Sad in many ways.

[pantlesspenguin]

I think about that a lot. Sure, we all want BlackBerry to succeed...but that typically means we want them to succeed so they can keep putting out new mobile devices. I don't know how I'd feel if they'd still be around, but provide services that I can't really use like BES or QNX in cars (unless it happens to be in a new car that I'm purchasing, but in the 19ish years I've been driving I've only owned 3 vehicles so buying a new car doesn't happen often). I still have hope that they'll be around long enough to produce an ultra amazing high-end device with loads of app support and all the features work flawlessly. That's all I've ever wanted.

[kbz1960]

I think about that a lot. Sure, we all want BlackBerry to succeed...but that typically means we want them to succeed so they can keep putting out new mobile devices. I don't know how I'd feel if they'd still be around, but provide services that I can't really use like BES or QNX in cars (unless it happens to be in a new car that I'm purchasing, but in the 19ish years I've been driving I've only owned 3 vehicles so buying a new car doesn't happen often). I still have hope that they'll be around long enough to produce an ultra amazing high-end device with loads of app support and all the features work flawlessly. That's all I've ever wanted.

Agreed. And no company gets there without things being pointed out where you lack against your competition.

[TgeekB]

The ATT store closest to my home had no Z10 on display. There was a Q10 but no other BB phones the day we were in the store. One manager had a Z10 in his pocket. That had to serve as a demo for my first touching the phone. Bought and never looked back.

When Z30 came along the local Verizon store had one display but none to sell. Bought that one online after using the Verizon demo model.

How anyone can be honest about American carriers and not say they failed to support BB10 is beyond my comprehension.

So, according to you, they should carry every phone in existence?

Posted via my Nexus 10.

[donnation]

The problem wasn't the carriers, it was what I would I would call a completely embarrassing launch. To Thor's horrific stage presence to the completely underwhelming fiasco that the launch show was, embarrassingly finished off by the introduction of Alicia Keys. Follow that up with some of the worst marketing I've ever seen and it's no surprise that carriers weren't promoting them.

After the announcement and launch it wouldn't have mattered if carriers only offered BB10 phones and nothing else. No one was interested in buying them because BB did such a terrible job of getting the consumers excited about their new phones.

Posted via CrackBerry App

[bbnrs]

"When the Q10 launched, I went in to play with one. As soon as I walked in a rep recognized me and said "Here to buy the Q10 now?" and pulled his own from his pocket." This was not my experience at all. Went to AT&T and was told it was just in, the sales person was not familiar with the Q10 and probably BB in general. Called BestBuy, since I have two gift cards, and was told Q10 would probably be available via internet. Ordered from AT&T via internet.