[conite]

You are 100% correct BlackBerry would rather dump equipment on an unexpecting buyer then be truthful.

Double Woof!

BlackBerry has been clear for a long time: no new BB10 devices, no development of the Android Runtime, but continued support through security and maintenance patches. I see no deception.

[srzjumper]

Z30 for another half year or so. Then likely Samsung Edge.

[kirson]

BlackBerry has been clear for a long time: no new BB10 devices, no development of the Android Runtime, but continued support through security and maintenance patches. I see no deception.

No disrespect, but I totally disagree. Blackberry has been clear as MUD. They send out conflicting messages, they don't have a consistent story, and they constantly try to misdirect or obfuscate. I know that they have little choice and that a clear message would likely cause the company serious hardship. But let's be honest - the last thing you could say about Blackberry messaging is that it's clear.

[DueNorthBB]

But what if the mainstream is really bland...?
:-)

Like the Toyota in the US?

[conite]

No disrespect, but I totally disagree. Blackberry has been clear as MUD. They send out conflicting messages, they don't have a consistent story, and they constantly try to misdirect or obfuscate. I know that they have little choice and that a clear message would likely cause the company serious hardship. But let's be honest - the last thing you could say about Blackberry messaging is that it's clear.

Can you give an example of an official statement that distinctly conflicts with what I said above?

[VictorRight]

Fade away here.

Posted via CB10

[DueNorthBB]

I have never had the experience you describe. I find Blackberry's communications to be frank and candid. Sometimes I've been disappointed, such as when the PlayBook wasn't updated to BB10, but I've seen no unethical behavior by the company.

Posted via CB10

I agree. Some people here rather the company go bankrupt (pumping money into something that isn't selling) than adjusting strategy to survive. Maslow's Hierarchy of Need for a company... it needs to survive before worry about social commitments.

[GadgetTravel]

Can you give an example of an official statement that distinctly conflicts with what I said above?

Blackberry is being criticized for very, very wishful thinking by those on CrackBerry.

Posted via CB10

[kirson]

Can you give an example of an official statement that distinctly conflicts with what I said above?

No. That's kind of my point. I can't point at any Blackberry messaging that distinctly says much of anything at all about the development direction. I know the messaging you are referring to - but it is not mainstream and it is not consistently delivered by leadership.

[David Tyler]

What am I going to do..? Wait and see what 2017 brings. My phones will last at least that long, so I'll see if there are any new BlackBerry 10 devices then. "All in" for 2016? Fine. The fact that BlackBerry is seeking certification for BlackBerry 10 should mean something. If it doesn't, well -- I'll drive off that bridge when I get to it.

[Michael Dunn1]

Harbingers of failure: meet the customers you don?t want to love your product | Ars Technica

True man, Pontiac was great, that was an irresponsible decision in my opinion.

Posted via the mighty White Passport

[conite]

No. That's kind of my point. I can't point at any Blackberry messaging that distinctly says much of anything at all about the development direction. I know the messaging you are referring to - but it is not mainstream and it is not consistently delivered by leadership.

The insinuation I was originally responding to was that BlackBerry was being outright deceitful - lying to its customers in order to sell BB10 devices. I stand by what I said - I see no indication of that.

Furthermore, for whatever reason, I've always been clear on what I've heard from BlackBerry.

[Doggerz]

Harbingers of failure: meet the customers you don?t want to love your product | Ars Technica

I love this article. They should study me. The TV shows I watch get cancelled. The cars I love get discontinued. Same with smartphones. I still like the idea of riding Amtrak.

Z30STA100-5 / 10.3.2.2876 / T-Mobile USA

[Asvertus]

Give Windows phone a try. I like it a lot better than Android and iOS. The Lumia 830 is a great replacement for Z10/Z30 users.

I prefer the Lumia 950 XL.

Posted from my Z30 (10.3.2.2876)

[Bossque]

Strengthen the things that remain.

Microsoft/Nokia still sell feature phones used by millions of people, that sell for under $50 each. They don't aim to topple the dominance of Apple or Anrdoid with these phones. They simply market to a particular niche.

Where there's a market, there's a way.

Same thought! Just to add, I wrote before that I don't think BB can survive with Android- only! And say again, why would BB users use BB Android (if BB10 would die) instead some other Android device which is more known?(one of reason will be disappointment in Blackberry) For example, Priv is too expencive...there is more cheaper Android devices which are faster, better with more updates. They say Priv will get update in Q1, but...will that be? As we know Android delivers update for some devices soon, for some later, for some- NEVER! Where Blackberry will be...? Therefore, should we take a risk again. BB7- died, replaced with BB10 which they intend to kill!? And if that's happend would we try again "BB story" which is uncertain or immediatelly turn on Android or iOS?!? Once again, for 700-900$ (Priv's price) I can by highend phone, iPhone 6s, the newest Motorola, Nexus...and I won't worry about support (updates). Once again BB chiefs must ask they will they make phones or only softwares in future...

[JeepBB]

Can you give an example of an official statement that distinctly conflicts with what I said above?

I can...

From CNET, in an interview with Chen, but it's also elsewhere where Chen is directly quoted: "Chen also hopes the Priv will help improve the company's viability, repair the brand and eventually make it possible to produce another phone running BlackBerry 10 -- although he said it's too early to talk about those plans."

In what way is Chen being "honest and open" about the future of BB10 in the above quote?

Does anyone seriously believe BB10 phones are coming back?

To echo Kirson's point, Chen is deliberately misdirecting and obfuscating on the future of BB10. Anyone with hope for the re-birth of BB10 is going to seize on the above statement as "proof" that BB10 isn't done... coz Chen has said there are "plans". In the same way that people are already seizing on Chen words about BB10 updates as "proof" that BB10 has a future and will be further developed.

I do like Chen (an increasingly unpopular view around here ), in that I think he's possibly the most effective CEO BB have ever had in terms of keeping the BB ship afloat long after I thought it was bound to sink... and may actually succeed in saving BB (though the BB he saves may no longer be of interest to the typical CB'er )... but "honest and open" aren't terms I would ever use to describe him. He's a master of ambiguous statements that cannot ever be labelled as outright lies, but are nonetheless designed to mislead.

[conite]

I can...

From CNET, in an interview with Chen, but it's also elsewhere where Chen is directly quoted: "Chen also hopes the Priv will help improve the company's viability, repair the brand and eventually make it possible to produce another phone running BlackBerry 10 -- although he said it's too early to talk about those plans."

In what way is Chen being "honest and open" about the future of BB10 in the above quote?

Does anyone seriously believe BB10 phones are coming back?

To echo Kirson's point, Chen is deliberately misdirecting and obfuscating on the future of BB10. .

He may actually believe that. I don't see that as direct, unequivocal evidence of deliberate deceit.

If his handset division is flush with money a year from now, I could see him slap an 801 in a Classic or Leap body for his high-secure customers in a low-volume production run. Although I think that cash scenario is highly unlikely.

[JeepBB]

He may actually believe that. I don't see that as direct, unequivocal evidence of deliberate deceit.

As I said, there's nothing you could ever point to as being "a lie".... Chen is way too smart to ever be caught in a lie.

However, I have yet to see a single statement from Chen that is clear, unambiguous and associated with a timeline.

He's good, is Chen.

[conite]

As I said, there's nothing you could ever point to as being "a lie".... Chen is way too smart to ever be caught in a lie.

However, I have yet to see a single statement from Chen that is clear, unambiguous and associated with a timeline.

He's good, is Chen.

His mastery of the English language doesn't do him any favours either. That's for sure.

[RyanGermann]

I have never had the experience you describe. I find Blackberry's communications to be frank and candid. Sometimes I've been disappointed, such as when the PlayBook wasn't updated to BB10, but I've seen no unethical behavior by the company.

It is unethical to make statements of uncertainty when management is mostly certain on what they're going to do. It's unethical to make ambiguous statements about device support that aren't borne out by actions. BlackBerry may not be alone in this, but that doesn't make it ethical. Leaving a number if serious problems / bugs in BB10 OS without investing in fixing them is unethical, even if it is "business as usual".

The fact that many business act unethically doesn't make unethical behavior somehow not unethical. It's just that consumers by and large are not bothered to fight or complain, so the unethical behaviour becomes the new normal.

[GadgetTravel]

As I said, there's nothing you could ever point to as being "a lie".... Chen is way too smart to ever be caught in a lie.

However, I have yet to see a single statement from Chen that is clear, unambiguous and associated with a timeline.

He's good, is Chen.

I think he may be trying to be very candid. Look at things he said they were trying to fix, like their image. I don't think he knows today whether there will be a handset division of any size in a year and is being honest about that.

[RyanGermann]

I love this article. They should study me. The TV shows I watch get cancelled. The cars I love get discontinued. Same with smartphones. I still like the idea of riding Amtrak.

There are contrarian customers for sure: people who actively avoid "popular" products and media properties. It took me YEARS to get my partner to watch Friends, now he loves it, but didn't even watch it at all when it was originally aired. He'd fit right in with that study (he runs Linux Mint as his desktop OS, doesn't own a smartphone, etc. etc.)

[crucial bbq]

I certainly have the death touch. I bought a Palm Pre, they went down. I drive a Pontiac and they were shut down. And now I'm using a Classic.

Maybe I should go iPhone...

Why iPhone? iOS 9 has many features that never make it to the reviews (because you know, iPhone reviews are akin to Android handset reviews: build quality, speed, and camera being the focus), and features that I would imagine would appeal to BB10 users way more than anything Android.

You know, Google created the OHA with the sole purpose of taking out Apple/iPhone and RIM/BlackBerry. Google created the Nexus phone with the idea of it being free (subsidized by ad revenues, what else?). Then they were going to charge $99 for it unlocked. The carriers laughed at them, told Google to get lost. Google was also one of Net Neutrality's loudest proponent; Verizon, one of its most staunch critics. Guess what? Google ultimately sided with Verizon, the Nexus shot up to $500, and tossed everything "don't be evil" into the trash.

To add, it was not that long ago when BlackBerry joined forces with MS, Apple, and a few others to outbid Google on some patents that went up for auction. Now, somehow Google/Android is our best friend?

Harbingers of failure: meet the customers you don?t want to love your product | Ars Technica

Wow, have to agree with you on this one.

Spot on. A lot of BB10 fans are inherently contrarian people in the first place - which is why they owned non-mainstream products before BB10 and why they plan to move to WinPhone or Tizen or some other micro-niche rather than iOS or Android. These people simply avoid anything mainstream - often because they think they are smarter than everyone else and/or that "mainstream" users are always "dumb sheep". They also are attracted to the drama that comes with niche products - the cycle of joy in discovering something new and unique, followed by the tension of wondering if it will last, and eventually the anger when it eventually fails - or worse, eventually becomes mainstream.

They're also the ones constantly talking about "loyal users" and "loyal supporters", as if loyalty, perceived or real, is more important than mainstream success or profits (to almost any company, it isn't). I've definitely seen this before in other areas besides the smartphone world.

And... have to agree with you here, too. What is this thread? The Twilight Zone?

Yeah, I am that person. I have considered Tizen, Jolla Sailfish, Ubuntu Phone, and WinPhone. But for me it is not about simply being obscure, it has more to do with the smaller vendors doing stuff that the big dogs are not. Typically, stuff that is mainstream has a certain amount of safeness (blandness) to it, otherwise it would not appeal to so many people. Now would I actually get one of those phones? Likely only WinPhone. I am not against the iPhone or even Android (but I do side with Cynogenmod with their desire to take Android away from Google), just mostly not a fan of Google. I do like some of the Android handsets, though.

And if I get the Priv, I know that a BlackBerry powered by Android upsets some people

[wMarck90]

Showing Our Commitment to BlackBerry 10 at CES 2016 | Inside BlackBerry

[ndeep13]

I've got 2 z30s so I'm good for awhile if I break one


Posted via CB10