[tatail]

I bought myself a Z30 when it was released, after keeping it a week and using it for only an hour I sold the phone to CrackBerrian.

Only reason for me was form factor. I found it uncomfortable to use with one hand.

The only issue I ever had with Z10 was battery and is the loud speaker.

BlackBerry should and needs to release a Z10 successor.

Posted via CB10

[slagman5]

In the Call screen the Icon to switch to the dial pad is fairly obvious. It's also not a random jumble of options, its what people use most in a phone call. The end call battle is also clearly mapped out, you just know what it is. To answer a call if the phone is locked, you swipe up and answer it, otherwise the phone remains locked while the call is ongoing. Making a phone call with Windows Phone | Phoning | Windows Phone How-to (United Kingdom) check it if you don't believe me.
The voicemail app resides in the phone app, were else would it be, and if the tile had a notification isn't it obvious that there is something you are being notified about...also, the icons are labeled, if you press the three dots, you can see the labels..
Handing my phone over to a five year old and they can pretty much do anything.

Honestly, most of your complaints are trivial, I mean how the hell do we figure out what the share icon is on any platform (on WP it is represented by the word Share), on others it looks like a recycle bin...

If you say so. I know exactly where it is, I'm just saying it's not intuitive, and you know it isn't when you give it to someone who is older and they have to ask you what everything does. While if you hand that same person an iphone, BB10, or even Android, they could figure it out because the layout makes "logical" sense without knowing about that specific device. What I mean by logical sense is that if you treat the phone app like a book, with pages, or in digital terms, tabs, this makes sense to everyone both tech savvy and not. Like my description implies, the tabs method resembles a physical book, something everyone is familiar with. You pick up a book and you know without anyone teaching you to flip the page to get to the next page. Same with the tabs concept. The different screens, call details, dialpad, and contacts, are laid out side by side. Anyone picking it up would know to go from one tab to the next to change screens. Having a matrix of icons where one of them is a little image of a dialpad arrangement doesn't jump out to someone who doesn't know to look for it. Of course I could tell that was what it was, but if you told me to describe it to someone blindfolded without prior knowledge of the screen, I would be wrong. My first instinct would be to tell the person to look for a tab with the word dialpad or the image of the dialpad. That description would work in every phone system, except the windows phone.

Having to unlock the screen while a phone call is coming in is simply silly. Every other platform the screen becomes active upon an incoming call, no need to unlock it first. Accidental answers are prevented by requiring a specific swipe direction to answer the call. EVERY platform does this because it's the simplest and most logical way to handle it. But no, windows phone makes answering a call a two-step process...

And yes, the voicemail is within the phone app. Unfortunately it's this tiny little icon that's not anywhere close to being touchscreen friendly in my opinion. Touchscreen buttons should always be much bigger than that. And again, I knew where it was when I looked for it. My mother didn't. She knows how to get to the voicemail in BB10 without me showing her, and I'm pretty sure she would on iphone and on Android. Heck, you can call my mother completely technology illiterate, I won't be offended, she pretty much is. But she was able to get it right away on BB10, why not on WP? And not to mention, she's on a prepaid plan, which doesn't support visual voicemail. Unfortunately on WP, it seems like it needs to be visual voicemail, it keeps prompting her to enter her voicemail password, and there's absolutely no way to disable that prompt. She has to hit cancel every time. If she actually enters the password, it'll automatically switch it to visual voicemail, which doesn't work, so then all of her voicemail notifications stop. And there's no setting anywhere in the phone to revert it once the password is entered. You have to do it through the carrier...

If you have visual voicemail, this isn't at all an issue, and 99% of us do, but it's surprising they didn't consider that some cheap plans do not offer it...

And yes, requiring you to press the (equally small) 3 dots just to see the labels of the small little icons is kind of unacceptable. My mother's vision isn't great, those icons and those 3 dots are far too small for her, and in my opinion, I think they don't make for good touchscreen icons either. Even though I can personally do it, I can tell for some people who are not as good in the dexterity department it could be an issue. And it's funny, in the settings you can change the font size. Making the font size bigger, logically is because your vision isn't that great. Yet, those tiny little icons stay just as tiny...

And when typing a reply to a text, the text input box and the keyboard take up like 70% of the screen. I've seen most phone take up like half the screen, which is a lot, but it's reasonable. The amount it takes up on WP with the font sized increased is just ridiculous. Literally she had to read the conversation through a tiny little slit, like big enough to read one line at a time...

Really, you don't find this unacceptable? You can literally only see ONE line in the conversation...

Versus this:


Or this:


And something as simple as saving a photo received via MMS, again, is a three-step process. In BB10, and I'm guessing in every platform except WP, you can just long press the image in the conversation and then select save from the menu. In WP, you have to tap to open it first, THEN you can save it...

And yes, you can brush it all under the rug like it's all trivial, who cares, well, I honestly think if there's a simpler way to do something, it should be done that way. Wasted extra steps and wasted effort to figure things out is completely unacceptable for me. If you love it, then congrats man, good for you.

But I agree with the share icon thing. I'd rather it be something that implies sharing, or the word "Share" than some symbol that looks like a Steam-Powered logo ripoff, lol.

[Ebuka Allison]

If you say so. I know exactly where it is, I'm just saying it's not intuitive, and you know it isn't when you give it to someone who is older and they have to ask you what everything does. While if you hand that same person an iphone, BB10, or even Android, they could figure it out because the layout makes "logical" sense without knowing about that specific device. What I mean by logical sense is that if you treat the phone app like a book, with pages, or in digital terms, tabs, this makes sense to everyone both tech savvy and not. Like my description implies, the tabs method resembles a physical book, something everyone is familiar with. You pick up a book and you know without anyone teaching you to flip the page to get to the next page. Same with the tabs concept. The different screens, call details, dialpad, and contacts, are laid out side by side. Anyone picking it up would know to go from one tab to the next to change screens. Having a matrix of icons where one of them is a little image of a dialpad arrangement doesn't jump out to someone who doesn't know to look for it. Of course I could tell that was what it was, but if you told me to describe it to someone blindfolded without prior knowledge of the screen, I would be wrong. My first instinct would be to tell the person to look for a tab with the word dialpad or the image of the dialpad. That description would work in every phone system, except the windows phone.

Having to unlock the screen while a phone call is coming in is simply silly. Every other platform the screen becomes active upon an incoming call, no need to unlock it first. Accidental answers are prevented by requiring a specific swipe direction to answer the call. EVERY platform does this because it's the simplest and most logical way to handle it. But no, windows phone makes answering a call a two-step process...

And yes, the voicemail is within the phone app. Unfortunately it's this tiny little icon that's not anywhere close to being touchscreen friendly in my opinion. Touchscreen buttons should always be much bigger than that. And again, I knew where it was when I looked for it. My mother didn't. She knows how to get to the voicemail in BB10 without me showing her, and I'm pretty sure she would on iphone and on Android. Heck, you can call my mother completely technology illiterate, I won't be offended, she pretty much is. But she was able to get it right away on BB10, why not on WP? And not to mention, she's on a prepaid plan, which doesn't support visual voicemail. Unfortunately on WP, it seems like it needs to be visual voicemail, it keeps prompting her to enter her voicemail password, and there's absolutely no way to disable that prompt. She has to hit cancel every time. If she actually enters the password, it'll automatically switch it to visual voicemail, which doesn't work, so then all of her voicemail notifications stop. And there's no setting anywhere in the phone to revert it once the password is entered. You have to do it through the carrier...

If you have visual voicemail, this isn't at all an issue, and 99% of us do, but it's surprising they didn't consider that some cheap plans do not offer it...

And yes, requiring you to press the (equally small) 3 dots just to see the labels of the small little icons is kind of unacceptable. My mother's vision isn't great, those icons and those 3 dots are far too small for her, and in my opinion, I think they don't make for good touchscreen icons either. Even though I can personally do it, I can tell for some people who are not as good in the dexterity department it could be an issue. And it's funny, in the settings you can change the font size. Making the font size bigger, logically is because your vision isn't that great. Yet, those tiny little icons stay just as tiny...

And when typing a reply to a text, the text input box and the keyboard take up like 70% of the screen. I've seen most phone take up like half the screen, which is a lot, but it's reasonable. The amount it takes up on WP with the font sized increased is just ridiculous. Literally she had to read the conversation through a tiny little slit, like big enough to read one line at a time...

Really, you don't find this unacceptable? You can literally only see ONE line in the conversation...



Versus this:


Or this:


And something as simple as saving a photo received via MMS, again, is a three-step process. In BB10, and I'm guessing in every platform except WP, you can just long press the image in the conversation and then select save from the menu. In WP, you have to tap to open it first, THEN you can save it...

And yes, you can brush it all under the rug like it's all trivial, who cares, well, I honestly think if there's a simpler way to do something, it should be done that way. Wasted extra steps and wasted effort to figure things out is completely unacceptable for me. If you love it, then congrats man, good for you.

But I agree with the share icon thing. I'd rather it be something that implies sharing, or the word "Share" than some symbol that looks like a Steam-Powered logo ripoff, lol.

You DO NOT HAVE TO UNLOCK THE SCREEN TO PICK UP A PHONE CALL IN WP, YOU SIMPLY SWIPE UP AND PRESS ANSWER IF YOUR PHONE IS LOCKED, I said that last time and passed on a link.
What kind of Windows phone is that? The messaging app has four buttons below it not two...
Look:

And I don't have visual voicemail, never have. Voicemail works just fine :/


The three dots are standard in every platform, even BB has them and Android
Also, this

My first instinct would be to tell the person to look for a tab with the word dialpad or the image of the dialpad. That description would work in every phone system, except the windows phone.

How does the phone app not have the image of a dialpad, it is obvious. I wasn't born with a windows phone in my hand you know...




Its pretty obvious what they do. Just because its not the same doesn't mean people will be baffled. And to save images you do press and hold. Are you talking about windows phone 7? Because your complaints are about as valid as the complaints of people talking about BBOS7 and just as misguided. I can't even recognize what you're talking about at all.

[slagman5]

You DO NOT HAVE TO UNLOCK THE SCREEN TO PICK UP A PHONE CALL IN WP, YOU SIMPLY SWIPE UP AND PRESS ANSWER IF YOUR PHONE IS LOCKED, I said that last time and passed on a link.
What kind of Windows phone is that? The messaging app has four buttons below it not two...
Look:

And I don't have visual voicemail, never have. Voicemail works just fine :/


The three dots are standard in every platform, even BB has them and Android
Also, this

How does the phone app not have the image of a dialpad, it is obvious. I wasn't born with a windows phone in my hand you know...




Its pretty obvious what they do. Just because its not the same doesn't mean people will be baffled. And to save images you do press and hold. Are you talking about windows phone 7? Because your complaints are about as valid as the complaints of people talking about BBOS7 and just as misguided. I can't even recognize what you're talking about at all.

Dude, are you serious? What are you doing by swiping up when a call comes in? UNLOCKING THE SCREEN!!

And while the 3 dots are standard, typically they are bigger, to accommodate the fact that touchscreen isn't as precise as having a cursor like on a PC with a mouse or a phone with a track pad. That's what I said about those. And my beef was needing to press the 3 dots just to see the icon labels while I'm sure with every other platform all you have to do is leave your finger on the icon a second and it'll show it so you'll know right away you're picking the right thing.

And obviously for you and I we know what to look out for, I'm talking about people, typically older people, who are a bit intimidated by the new technology need a little more of an "intuitive" system. Like I've said, I hand her a Z10 and she immediately instinctly goes for the right button, I'm sure it's the same for the iphone, and even Android (they use the same tab arrangement). While with Windows phone, she doesn't get it right away. Even if it's not incredible hard, it is still, compared to the other platforms (say it with me), the LEAST intuitive out of the bunch, which is what I've been saying from the beginning.

And with the photos, please read what I wrote. Someone sends you a photo via mms. From the conversation, if you long press the picture, you only get the options for that message. Think it is delete, forward, and one other. Not at home in front of the WP at the moment. If you want to save the photo you have to tap it first, to open it in full screen view, THEN long press, then select save image. In any other platform, right from the conversation if you long press the image the option to save is right there. No need to open it first. Don't worry, when I get home I'll get an image of this if you're having trouble understanding what I mean...

It was a Lumia 521 BTW. It's funny that you first say my complaints are trivial, now they are not legitimate. Pick one and stick with it. It makes your argument sound more valid. Nobody likes a flip-flopper...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?

[Ebuka Allison]

Dude, are you serious? What are you doing by swiping up when a call comes in? UNLOCKING THE SCREEN!!

And while the 3 dots are standard, typically they are bigger, to accommodate the fact that touchscreen isn't as precise as having a cursor like on a PC with a mouse or a phone with a track pad. That's what I said about those. And my beef was needing to press the 3 dots just to see the icon labels while I'm sure with every other platform all you have to do is leave your finger on the icon a second and it'll show it so you'll know right away you're picking the right thing.

And obviously for you and I we know what to look out for, I'm talking about people, typically older people, who are a bit intimidated by the new technology need a little more of an "intuitive" system. Like I've said, I hand her a Z10 and she immediately instinctly goes for the right button, I'm sure it's the same for the iphone, and even Android (they use the same tab arrangement). While with Windows phone, she doesn't get it right away. Even if it's not incredible hard, it is still, compared to the other platforms (say it with me), the LEAST intuitive out of the bunch, which is what I've been saying from the beginning.

And with the photos, please read what I wrote. Someone sends you a photo via mms. From the conversation, if you long press the picture, you only get the options for that message. Think it is delete, forward, and one other. Not at home in front of the WP at the moment. If you want to save the photo you have to tap it first, to open it in full screen view, THEN long press, then select save image. In any other platform, right from the conversation if you long press the image the option to save is right there. No need to open it first. Don't worry, when I get home I'll get an image of this if you're having trouble understanding what I mean...

It was a Lumia 521 BTW. It's funny that you first say my complaints are trivial, now they are not legitimate. Pick one and stick with it. It makes your argument sound more valid. Nobody likes a flip-flopper...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?

Dude, the swipe up doesn't unlock the phone, the phone remains locked while the call is received. Its swipe up and press answer if the phone is locked to prevent accidental answer, every platform has a barrier in place to prevent accidental answer if the screen is locked. Also, the screen becomes active when you get a call, hence the whole lighting up and displaying an image thing.

I don't know about MMS, honestly don't use it or know anyone who does in the UK. I apologize, I thought you didn't know what you were talking for a while there. Now I'm certain of it. Your complaints are both trivial and illegitimate and boil down to its different so it sucks. If one were to take two seconds to use the OS, these things would be obvious. I cannot speak for your mother or sister or whoever, but several others have said that Windows Phones are easy to use. Your measure of unintuitive is merely, it works different. Macs work different from PCs, doesn't make it unintuitive. Heck BB10 doesn't have a home button. It lacks a freaking home button. That's about as unintuitive as you can get if one were to use difference as a measure.
If we're talking about icons , have you seen ios 7 and 8 icons for Safari. Without prior knowledge would you even know what they did. Heck I still don't know what some of them do or have to think a bit. Complaining about the Windows Phone dialpad and icon arrangement being unintuitive is simply strange. WP is not ios or android. Similarly, IOS and Android are not WP or BB10, each have different styles. And while WP is praised for its simplicity, BB10 is bashed for its obfuscation, I suggest you keep that in mind while making claims of intuitiveness and check your bias. Unintuitive is me not having any idea how to use my playbook for weeks after I got it handed down to me without any instructions. I can assure you that that was hell itself

[slagman5]

Dude, the swipe up doesn't unlock the phone, the phone remains locked while the call is received. Its swipe up and press answer if the phone is locked to prevent accidental answer, every platform has a barrier in place to prevent accidental answer if the screen is locked. Also, the screen becomes active when you get a call, hence the whole lighting up and displaying an image thing.

I don't know about MMS, honestly don't use it or know anyone who does in the UK. I apologize, I thought you didn't know what you were talking for a while there. Now I'm certain of it. Your complaints are both trivial and illegitimate and boil down to its different so it sucks. If one were to take two seconds to use the OS, these things would be obvious. I cannot speak for your mother or sister or whoever, but several others have said that Windows Phones are easy to use. Your measure of unintuitive is merely, it works different. Macs work different from PCs, doesn't make it unintuitive. Heck BB10 doesn't have a home button. It lacks a freaking home button. That's about as unintuitive as you can get if one were to use difference as a measure.
If we're talking about icons , have you seen ios 7 and 8 icons for Safari. Without prior knowledge would you even know what they did. Heck I still don't know what some of them do or have to think a bit. Complaining about the Windows Phone dialpad and icon arrangement being unintuitive is simply strange. WP is not ios or android. Similarly, IOS and Android are not WP or BB10, each have different styles. And while WP is praised for its simplicity, BB10 is bashed for its obfuscation, I suggest you keep that in mind while making claims of intuitiveness and check your bias. Unintuitive is me not having any idea how to use my playbook for weeks after I got it handed down to me without any instructions. I can assure you that that was hell itself

About the call answering, I already addressed that. Every phone, even with a password locked screen, all you have to do is answer the call. You don't need to unlock the screen first. And I know it's to prevent accidental answering, and like I've already said, the way every other phone does it is by requiring a specific swipe to answer... Not a swipe to unlock the screen, THEN answer...

And wow, first you say you're uninformed about MMS because you don't use it, so your conclusion for that is that I'm the one that don't know what I'm talking about? LMAO!!! That makes total sense man, really it does, lol. :-D

And how did you get that my measure of intuitiveness is whether it's different? You're saying BB10, iOS, and Android are exactly the same?? LMAO! They are ALL different! The thing is, all of the ways they do it are intuitive because it can be relate-able to something physical. It makes logical sense to the brain without knowing that it is digital so it's different. Imagine a digital book. One program makes it so you just swipe the same direction you would in a real book to flip the pages. Another program wants you to swipe up to flip to the next page and down for the last page. Technically speaking, is the second system "hard to learn?" No, it isn't, but is it as "intuitive" as the first system? No, it isn't. Go look up the word intuitive, it has nothing to do with technical difficulty as you seem to think I'm implying...

And I recognize that perhaps MS has updated the OS to fix some of these things. But that pretty much only confirms that the issues I've brought up are legitimate, unless MS is fixing non-issues now??

And I don't get how I'm biased when I'm including iOS and Android in the "intuitive" camp. So, I'm biased toward every system except WP? Does that make sense?? Lol. :-D

Edit: Here we go:

I long pressed smack dab in the center of that photo. Those are the options that came up. You tell me man, obviously I have no clue what I'm talking about, so the save image option must be there, please point it out to me...

Edit2: And sorry for the out-of-focus image, but you can still read it. It's WP8, although I've heard that there is a 8.1 update that does fix some of the issues... eh hem, the "non issues" that I've spoken about, but this is the version she had to deal with...


Edit3: And given that the voicemail issue was able to be changed on the carrier's side, it could be that the carrier my mother is using (it's a cheapy pre-paid plan) just has a really crappy voicemail system that doesn't work right. But still, the Z10 seems to be coping with it fine while it made the Lumia 521 go crazy. But yes, I'm willing to chalk that up to the crappy carrier rather than the phone itself...

Edit4: Oh, and before you try to say that the issue is that the 521 is meant for T-Mobile and my mom is using a prepair carrier, the prepaid carrier is called "Ultra Mobile" and they work off the T-Mobile network so they actually work on all T-Mobile and unlocked phones. And yes, I did change the APN settings to the ones specific to Ultra...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?

[Ebuka Allison]

About the call answering, I already addressed that. Every phone, even with a password locked screen, all you have to do is answer the call. You don't need to unlock the screen first. And I know it's to prevent accidental answering, and like I've already said, the way every other phone does it is by requiring a specific swipe to answer... Not a swipe to unlock the screen, THEN answer...

And wow, first you say you're uninformed about MMS because you don't use it, so your conclusion for that is that I'm the one that don't know what I'm talking about? LMAO!!! That makes total sense man, really it does, lol. :-D

And how did you get that my measure of intuitiveness is whether it's different? You're saying BB10, iOS, and Android are exactly the same?? LMAO! They are ALL different! The thing is, all of the ways they do it are intuitive because it can be relate-able to something physical. It makes logical sense to the brain without knowing that it is digital so it's different. Imagine a digital book. One program makes it so you just swipe the same direction you would in a real book to flip the pages. Another program wants you to swipe up to flip to the next page and down for the last page. Technically speaking, is the second system "hard to learn?" No, it isn't, but is it as "intuitive" as the first system? No, it isn't. Go look up the word intuitive, it has nothing to do with technical difficulty as you seem to think I'm implying...

And I recognize that perhaps MS has updated the OS to fix some of these things. But that pretty much only confirms that the issues I've brought up are legitimate, unless MS is fixing non-issues now??

And I don't get how I'm biased when I'm including iOS and Android in the "intuitive" camp. So, I'm biased toward every system except WP? Does that make sense?? Lol. :-D

Edit: Here we go:

I long pressed smack dab in the center of that photo. Those are the options that came up. You tell me man, obviously I have no clue what I'm talking about, so the save image option must be there, please point it out to me...

Edit2: And sorry for the out-of-focus image, but you can still read it. It's WP8, although I've heard that there is a 8.1 update that does fix some of the issues... eh hem, the "non issues" that I've spoken about, but this is the version she had to deal with...


Edit3: And given that the voicemail issue was able to be changed on the carrier's side, it could be that the carrier my mother is using (it's a cheapy pre-paid plan) just has a really crappy voicemail system that doesn't work right. But still, the Z10 seems to be coping with it fine while it made the Lumia 521 go crazy. But yes, I'm willing to chalk that up to the crappy carrier rather than the phone itself...

Edit4: Oh, and before you try to say that the issue is that the 521 is meant for T-Mobile and my mom is using a prepair carrier, the prepaid carrier is called "Ultra Mobile" and they work off the T-Mobile network so they actually work on all T-Mobile and unlocked phones. And yes, I did change the APN settings to the ones specific to Ultra...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?

Unlock screen, I don't think you know what that means. The screen comes active, you short swipe and tap. Full stop. The screen isn't locked then , it's active. If the phone is on you don't have to swipe.
Your digital book analogy is fallacious as phones aren't books.
After the MMS line there really should've been a break from me...
Anyway, your complaints are nitpicking, nothing significant. The first time I used a WP I was 15, coming from a C3. I had no previous experience and yet I managed. IOS Android and BB10 a aren't intuitive at all, you're just used to them. The former are dominant, so you let them off, the latter is your pet dog, do its excused. For all your Blather about unintuitiveness I have yet to see a problem at all. So have lots of reviewers. Your lols and Lmaos do nothing to bolster your argument

"Wozniak is effusive in his praise for the Windows Phone interface, describing it as beautiful and highly intuitive" Apple Steve Wozniak btw

[The Big Picture]

Even apple iphone 6 will be minimum 4.7 inches

Differentiate or Die.

[FobiddenRiceman]

Is there anyone out there who thinks BlackBerry should build a high-end compact full-touch or am I alone with this demand?.

+1

[rocker_man1]

I don't know my Z10 was way to small. The Z30 at 5" is perfect for my hands.

Mikescraftbeer.com - C00012735/ Mike Garson Photography - C00471EA8

[slagman5]

Unlock screen, I don't think you know what that means. The screen comes active, you short swipe and tap. Full stop. The screen isn't locked then , it's active. If the phone is on you don't have to swipe.
Your digital book analogy is fallacious as phones aren't books.
After the MMS line there really should've been a break from me...
Anyway, your complaints are nitpicking, nothing significant. The first time I used a WP I was 15, coming from a C3. I had no previous experience and yet I managed. IOS Android and BB10 a aren't intuitive at all, you're just used to them. The former are dominant, so you let them off, the latter is your pet dog, do its excused. For all your Blather about unintuitiveness I have yet to see a problem at all. So have lots of reviewers. Your lols and Lmaos do nothing to bolster your argument

"Wozniak is effusive in his praise for the Windows Phone interface, describing it as beautiful and highly intuitive" Apple Steve Wozniak btw

Count it with me, one, two. How do you answer a call with an iphone? You swipe to the side (I forgot which side it was). How do you answer a call with an Android? You also swipe to the left or right. How do you answer a call with a BB10? You swipe to the left. How do you answer a call on WP? You swipe up, then you touch a button. Sure it's only one more step, but since my point is just in relation to the others, which of these 4 is the least intuitive?

And obviously phones aren't books, you still don't understand why I use that comparison... Seriously, look up the term intuitive. It has nothing to do with technical difficulty and only to do with how quickly something can be easily recognized as the thing to do to operate something. If someone has absolutely no experience with touchscreen phones or any kind of smartphone, what is something we all have knowledge about, regardless of your level of tech knowledge? The physical things you use to store data or to look up data, like a rolodex, a book, a filing cabinet, etc. Their operation is pretty self-explanatory, you flip pages, you flip tabs, etc. Why do you think they use words like page or tabs when they are talking about a digital medium that has no actual "pages" or "tabs." They are specifically designed to trigger the same response you will have if you're looking at a physical rolodex, filing cabinet, notebook, or book. You instinctly know to look at the top or bottom of the "page" for tabs that you can use to switch back and forth between sections, or you know to flip pages. Heck, even "scrolling" through a website. Where do you think they got that term "scroll" from? Is it some super tech savvy lingo? No, they actually are referring to the old-school (even before books!) scrolls because scrolling down a page on a digital screen resembles unrolling a scroll... There's a clear reason for GUI design, things are specifically designed to "work" in similar fashion as those physical things because it is "intuitive" even to someone who has NEVER touched a smartphone before.

Anyway, obviously you will never really understand the concept of this. The fact that you use your 15 year-old age as a comparison to the 60+ year-old people who need things to be more intuitive kind of proves my point. Most young people now will figure out electronics and digital devices much quicker and easier than someone in their 60's... I'm not that old myself, but I'm much older than you. My beginning ventures into the electronic world is with those old computers, the 386's, with the 5.25" floppy (like actually floppy) disks, by the time I was 15 I was building computers for family and friends. Something I learned through the years is the ability to see technology from other people's eyes. You are a bit too egocentric in your views because you know nothing else. I can tell what someone who is 60+ years old can easily pick up and what might take a little teaching. That's why I used the Lumia 521 for a week before giving it to my mother, because I wanted to know what I needed to point out, what I needed to show, and it frustrated me because it was more than I hoped would be needed. And I was right. You keep arguing like you think I'm saying the WP is "Hard to use." This is like the 15th time I've reiterated this, being intuitive that NOTHING to do with what is technically difficult to use. I don't feel the WP is difficult to use. I'm merely saying, in RELATION to the other 3 major platform, it is the LEAST intuitive. And even if you think maybe one or two extra steps to accomplish the same tasks don't sound like a lot, extra steps are extra steps. The fact that the other platforms don't have them proves those extra steps are not necessary. So that argument isn't even worth mentioning. Even though it's not technically hard to use, compared to the other platforms, it is the least intuitive. That's my point. You do understand what in relation means right?

Let's simplify it even further. Let's say 4 kids took an exam with the highest possible grade being 100. Kid 1 scored a 96. Kid 2 scored a 95. Kid 3 also scored a 95. And kid 4 scored a 90. Now, is 90 a "bad" grade? No, but is it the least score out of the 4? Yes, it is. That's basically what I'm saying. Out of the 4 major platforms, it is the "least" intuitive. Do I think it's as bad as some of the older phones or some of these feature phones? Of course not. I used this Pantec feature phone for a little while as an even cheaper option for my mother, and it was just so terrible I returned it. The Lumia 521 I at least gave it a shot and gave it to my mother to use for a while. But I'm not comparing the WP to those phones. Only comparing it to Android, iOS, and BB10.

Seriously, I hope this explanation is simplified enough. I'm not trying to insult you, but I get the point that you get really defensive about Windows Phone so I don't want you to feel the need to be that way. All I can tell you is that I gave two phones to the same person. One she picked up and understood everything right away, the other there were things she didn't really understand until a month after having it... Call my mother technology stupid if you want. Yes, she is technology stupid, lol, for the longest time she kept trying to "press" icons on the screen instead of touching them. I had to tell her that this isn't old-school tech where it registers the pressure, but instead reads the conductivity of your skin (of course I didn't say that because that would confuse her more, lol), but it took a while for her to get used to just touching it even after knowing that's all she has to do. But on the other hand, she was able to save up enough money just by working regular jobs (not a single manager position or anything that required a college degree although she has one now), through being thrifty and investing her money wisely, that now she owns 3 houses and has enough money in the bank to buy another. And I'm not talking junkers. One is worth over $300k, and the other two over $200k each. And she OWNS them, not paying mortgage, nothing, all paid for in full. So when it's not about using a smartphone or a computer, she knows what she's doing, plus she cooks awesome, lol, she's my mom, so I'll always love her cooking :-P But when it comes to tech, she's too used to old-school stuff, and yes, in terms of tech, she's pretty illiterate. It pains me to watch her in front of a computer, typing with one finger... smh... But that's the way you kind of "test" the intuitiveness of something. Not give it to a 15 year-old. Honestly, you give any piece of technology to a 15 year-old now, and it could be the least intuitive thing in the entire world and he/she would figure it out within the hour... The way you test it is by giving it to an old lady, lol. Sorry to my elders out there. No disrespect intended, it's hard to break out of the old ways, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's why military pilot trainers prefer people who has never flown in the civilian world than civilian pilots because it's easier to learn from scratch than to break old habits...

And BTW, Wozniak is known to praise Apple's competitor's. He brings Android devices to Apple board meetings, on purpose... He also said recently that he thinks Apple should make an Android device. So yah, that quote from the Woz means pretty much nothing. But if you were tech savvy enough to know the whole history of these things you would already know better than to use any quote from him as support for your argument... Basically, Woz is an Apple troll... He'll say or do anything just to troll Apple it seems...

[Ebuka Allison]

Count it with me, one, two. How do you answer a call with an iphone? You swipe to the side (I forgot which side it was). How do you answer a call with an Android? You also swipe to the left or right. How do you answer a call with a BB10? You swipe to the left. How do you answer a call on WP? You swipe up, then you touch a button. Sure it's only one more step, but since my point is just in relation to the others, which of these 4 is the least intuitive?

And obviously phones aren't books, you still don't understand why I use that comparison... Seriously, look up the term intuitive. It has nothing to do with technical difficulty and only to do with how quickly something can be easily recognized as the thing to do to operate something. If someone has absolutely no experience with touchscreen phones or any kind of smartphone, what is something we all have knowledge about, regardless of your level of tech knowledge? The physical things you use to store data or to look up data, like a rolodex, a book, a filing cabinet, etc. Their operation is pretty self-explanatory, you flip pages, you flip tabs, etc. Why do you think they use words like page or tabs when they are talking about a digital medium that has no actual "pages" or "tabs." They are specifically designed to trigger the same response you will have if you're looking at a physical rolodex, filing cabinet, notebook, or book. You instinctly know to look at the top or bottom of the "page" for tabs that you can use to switch back and forth between sections, or you know to flip pages. Heck, even "scrolling" through a website. Where do you think they got that term "scroll" from? Is it some super tech savvy lingo? No, they actually are referring to the old-school (even before books!) scrolls because scrolling down a page on a digital screen resembles unrolling a scroll... There's a clear reason for GUI design, things are specifically designed to "work" in similar fashion as those physical things because it is "intuitive" even to someone who has NEVER touched a smartphone before.

Anyway, obviously you will never really understand the concept of this. The fact that you use your 15 year-old age as a comparison to the 60+ year-old people who need things to be more intuitive kind of proves my point. Most young people now will figure out electronics and digital devices much quicker and easier than someone in their 60's... I'm not that old myself, but I'm much older than you. My beginning ventures into the electronic world is with those old computers, the 386's, with the 5.25" floppy (like actually floppy) disks, by the time I was 15 I was building computers for family and friends. Something I learned through the years is the ability to see technology from other people's eyes. You are a bit too egocentric in your views because you know nothing else. I can tell what someone who is 60+ years old can easily pick up and what might take a little teaching. That's why I used the Lumia 521 for a week before giving it to my mother, because I wanted to know what I needed to point out, what I needed to show, and it frustrated me because it was more than I hoped would be needed. And I was right. You keep arguing like you think I'm saying the WP is "Hard to use." This is like the 15th time I've reiterated this, being intuitive that NOTHING to do with what is technically difficult to use. I don't feel the WP is difficult to use. I'm merely saying, in RELATION to the other 3 major platform, it is the LEAST intuitive. And even if you think maybe one or two extra steps to accomplish the same tasks don't sound like a lot, extra steps are extra steps. The fact that the other platforms don't have them proves those extra steps are not necessary. So that argument isn't even worth mentioning. Even though it's not technically hard to use, compared to the other platforms, it is the least intuitive. That's my point. You do understand what in relation means right?

Let's simplify it even further. Let's say 4 kids took an exam with the highest possible grade being 100. Kid 1 scored a 96. Kid 2 scored a 95. Kid 3 also scored a 95. And kid 4 scored a 90. Now, is 90 a "bad" grade? No, but is it the least score out of the 4? Yes, it is. That's basically what I'm saying. Out of the 4 major platforms, it is the "least" intuitive. Do I think it's as bad as some of the older phones or some of these feature phones? Of course not. I used this Pantec feature phone for a little while as an even cheaper option for my mother, and it was just so terrible I returned it. The Lumia 521 I at least gave it a shot and gave it to my mother to use for a while. But I'm not comparing the WP to those phones. Only comparing it to Android, iOS, and BB10.

Seriously, I hope this explanation is simplified enough. I'm not trying to insult you, but I get the point that you get really defensive about Windows Phone so I don't want you to feel the need to be that way. All I can tell you is that I gave two phones to the same person. One she picked up and understood everything right away, the other there were things she didn't really understand until a month after having it... Call my mother technology stupid if you want. Yes, she is technology stupid, lol, for the longest time she kept trying to "press" icons on the screen instead of touching them. I had to tell her that this isn't old-school tech where it registers the pressure, but instead reads the conductivity of your skin (of course I didn't say that because that would confuse her more, lol), but it took a while for her to get used to just touching it even after knowing that's all she has to do. But on the other hand, she was able to save up enough money just by working regular jobs (not a single manager position or anything that required a college degree although she has one now), through being thrifty and investing her money wisely, that now she owns 3 houses and has enough money in the bank to buy another. And I'm not talking junkers. One is worth over $300k, and the other two over $200k each. And she OWNS them, not paying mortgage, nothing, all paid for in full. So when it's not about using a smartphone or a computer, she knows what she's doing, plus she cooks awesome, lol, she's my mom, so I'll always love her cooking :-P But when it comes to tech, she's too used to old-school stuff, and yes, in terms of tech, she's pretty illiterate. It pains me to watch her in front of a computer, typing with one finger... smh... But that's the way you kind of "test" the intuitiveness of something. Not give it to a 15 year-old. Honestly, you give any piece of technology to a 15 year-old now, and it could be the least intuitive thing in the entire world and he/she would figure it out within the hour... The way you test it is by giving it to an old lady, lol. Sorry to my elders out there. No disrespect intended, it's hard to break out of the old ways, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's why military pilot trainers prefer people who has never flown in the civilian world than civilian pilots because it's easier to learn from scratch than to break old habits...

And BTW, Wozniak is known to praise Apple's competitor's. He brings Android devices to Apple board meetings, on purpose... He also said recently that he thinks Apple should make an Android device. So yah, that quote from the Woz means pretty much nothing. But if you were tech savvy enough to know the whole history of these things you would already know better than to use any quote from him as support for your argument... Basically, Woz is an Apple troll... He'll say or do anything just to troll Apple it seems...

Although when the phone is unlocked it is literally one step, a tap. I don't know about the rest. It's all personal preference imo. Although in context of this conversation, your strong assertion against windows phone at the start is what is informing my tone. Sorry if I was a bit harsh.

[BaffTech]

Is this a WindowsPhone Forum now? ^ ^
BTW, I Owned some WP, I would say overall the UI intuitiveness is better than Android, less good than BB10. Then, you can hunt details on all platforms and feel what is more convenienent for your usage.

[slagman5]

Is this a WindowsPhone Forum now? ^ ^
BTW, I Owned some WP, I would say overall the UI intuitiveness is better than Android, less good than BB10. Then, you can hunt details on all platforms and feel what is more convenienent for your usage.

Well, with Android, it really does depend on the "skin" that particular manufacture put on it, unless you have a "pure" Android device. So some are more intuitive than others. Although if you want to really get into using it, yes, Android becomes less intuitive the more you dig into it, but that's kind of irrelevant since you're then getting into territory that non-techy people will probably never go into. In terms of just making/answering calls, sending texts, the typical things the less techy of us would do on a day-to-day basis, I find those things sort of more intuitive than some of the decisions WP made. iphones are definitely the most intuitive I think. They are just really simple and really easy to use. But try to dig into it like us techy's do, and you're going "what, no file manager?????" as you rip your hair out, lol. I know "pure" androids don't come with a file manager either, but you're expected to download an aftermarket app for that and a lot of other functions... Ok, so after talking about these things, maybe a pure Android is the least intuitive out of the bunch, lol.

[slagman5]

Although when the phone is unlocked it is literally one step, a tap. I don't know about the rest. It's all personal preference imo. Although in context of this conversation, your strong assertion against windows phone at the start is what is informing my tone. Sorry if I was a bit harsh.

Me too man, I'm usually pretty vocally against WP. I'm a very "minimize steps" kind of person, so I tend to find more importance in that than most other people, so my dislike of WP might not be understood by most people, lol. So I know I was probably being pretty harsh on it myself and if you're a WP user I can see why you would get defensive over my comments... But like I've said, it's not a technically hard phone to use, after the first day I already knew all of its idiosyncrasies. I didn't like them, but I am pretty quick to pick up on tech stuff so I was using it just fine within the first hour with the device. But I'm kind of OCD so it really bugged me every time I saw one of those things I didn't like... So yes, there is a bit of anger in there, haha. Trust me, there are things in BB10 that gets me angry as well, especially in the beginning. 10.2.1 has fixed a lot of those things that got me furious about the new BB10 at first... Go look up my earlier posts on here, I was being pretty harsh on BB10 before they fixed most of the issues... Like how they got rid of the one-button homescreen speed dialing, oh man, I was boiling... But now it's back and I'm happy now. But there were plenty of BB fans here that called me a troll for constantly pointing out things I didn't like about BB10 back then, lmao. :-D

[Notcho]

I would love to see a 4.5-4.7" Z10. Pretty much a small Z30. Squeeze in the best specs and a killer screen and speakers.

C0020AFC4

[crazigee]

I would love to see a 4.5-4.7" Z10. Pretty much a small Z30. Squeeze in the best specs and a killer screen and speakers.

C0020AFC4

I'd buy that. I'd even say go a bit larger on the screen 4.8-5". I think they could do that without making the footprint much larger than the current Z10, just by reducing the bezel.

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

[Glenn Biddle]

I presently have a Z10 and I've checked out the Z30s they look pretty darn good. They definitely don't look too big for me. But I'm waiting for the next phones to come out and see what they have to offer. It definitely is no hardship for me to keep using the Z10 in the meantime. To be honest I really don't need to upgrade, but I am off contact so upgrading would be relatively cheap, so as I said I'll wait for BlackBerry to release, let's face it I'll wait for them to release the passport and decide what I want to do from there.

Posted via CB10

[glidewells]

Exactly my feeling, A 4,7 inches screen would fit perfectly the Z10 dimensions. Add AMOLED, add miracast, add a little more battery even if the phone should be thicker (with AMOLED, that would be better anyway) and that's my perfect device !

Some dreamt concept here
http://img11.hostingpics.net/thumbs/...lMySUPERBB.png :

Awesome concept, I would buy that as soon as available.

[Zeratul57]

Title should read ....Demand for a Z10 sized Full Touch. Why would you want smaller worse experience than the Z10 ?