[southlander]

But if something with RIM and Samsung was on for sure wouldn't there have been more to demo at bb world?

Sent from my flip-phone.

[katiepea]

guys enough talk about a partnership, then pentagon isn't going to allow something like that

[BBNation]

I'm all over hating Heins, he isn't the best at delivering messages for sure but there might be something else going on here!

What if BB 10 were delayed because RIM and Samsung now have to tune it up to work on Samsungs future phones? It makes so much sense for the two companies to partner up here, share patents, share a REAL operatiing system that Google can't control.

I would be inclined to think that BB 10 needs to be able to work with Samsung and their user clientele too. We could be hearing about a major partnership in the making and soon. The delay wouldn't matter at all if you knew that power house Samsung and RIM are together to crush Apple. RIM would have an endless supply of cash and Samsung would have it all. Well worth waiting 3 more months for that kind of deal.

The change in RIM as stated in their working hours in Ottawa, their focus on Enterprise, their need to not be all things to all business sectors, all of this makes sense if Samsung were to become their new handset manufacturer. You hire the Banks to make this massive deal happen. This might explain why 93 million shares traded on AH/Friday, window dressing day, as someone wanted the stock at that level, over 2/3 billion purchased, we know the sellers after the bad news but who bought 2/3 billion bucks of RIM?

Is there anyway this arrangement would not make RIM a long lasting name in the smartphone market for years to come? I see them working together to stop Apple from suing Samsung every day. RIM doesn't have that problem, Samsung is buried in lawsuits. Together, they would rule the smartphone world!!!

Yes, I had some Grand Marnier in my coffee this morning.........................

Belive or not, I was thinking exact same thing. Cos the BB10 is closer to be finished but RIM is working on something we do not know..announce both at the same time. BB10 with BB and Samsung phones..

[kevinnugent]

Belive or not, I was thinking exact same thing. Cos the BB10 is closer to be finished but RIM is working on something we do not know..announce both at the same time. BB10 with BB and Samsung phones..

Then they have seriously misled their investors and the market. One does not recover from that.

[aniym]

My first point was that the Pentagon almost certainly has the right to summarily terminate their agreements if RIM is sold to an entity that has not been pre-approved. Additionally, governments might stop doing business under the same conditions. If RIM is sold to Samsung or partners with it in some way deemed inappropriate, RIM would lose a material number of customers. It makes splitting up RIM without knowing the buyer beforehand an idiotic statement -- all analysts are mostly idiots, so I am not surprised they parrot the "split 'em up" message.

For the record, splitting up a company will serve the analysts' masters very well. It would be a large reorg with lots of money moving around and so investment banks salivate at the prospect without regard to it making sense to current shareholders. Shareholders with controlling interests will be able to maneuver themselves to profit from it no matter what, but the little guy will be creamed; and anyway, it's bad for Canada.

The analysts have been right many, many more times than anyone on Crackberry because their jobs depend on providing correct estimates. This they do by building and using networks of contacts at the retail levels to check sell-throughs and inventory levels.

Contrast that to the armchair generals here who have changed their tune from "Security! I don't need Angry Birds! Samsung sells plasticky crap!" to "Samsung will save us!" over the course of one particularly bad earnings call.

"Splitting up a company will serve the analysts' masters very well."

You're right, it will. M&A, corporate restructuring and equity and debt underwriting is the lifeblood of investment banks. But nobody forced Thorsten to call JP Morgan and RBC. It's RIM's own mistakes that have forced them to look for a buyer. By the way, the banks are much better positioned to get RIM's shareholders a good deal by selling (unless you think the stock will somehow go back to $20). Palm hired Goldman Sachs to negotiate on their behalf and sold to HP at a 23% premium. And Palm had a much worse ecosystem and market penetration than RIM. The banks are the only way RIM will get anything close to book value in a buyout.

RIM's own financial managers are so incompetent that they didn't foresee that misleading investors about BB10 progress would lead to the 20% plummet on Friday.

[Thunderbuck]

RIM is a public company. BB10 is now a material component of RIM's ongoing business. RIM management is therefore obligated to inform the public as soon as practical if they are aware of a material change to RIM's business. A delay of BB10 certainly fits the criteria. The question is why this was not announced earlier.

For the record, I would have been happy to buy an OS7 phone earlier in the year had RIM promised an enticing tradeup program conditional on upgrading when a BB10 phone is released.

It's definitely worth asking why the delay wasn't announced earlier, but to be fair we don't know when RIM determined the need for said delay, either.

I'm more concerned about the lack of warning of just what the extent of the loss. Thor wasn't obliged to say a word, but as far as I'm concerned his most important job was to restore credibility. As bad as these results are, it's the blow to Heins' own credibility that's more troubling.

[lnichols]

I'm more concerned about the lack of warning of just what the extent of the loss. Thor wasn't obliged to say a word, but as far as I'm concerned his most important job was to restore credibility. As bad as these results are, it's the blow to Heins' own credibility that's more troubling.

Exactly. The biggest reason Mike and Jim had to go was both had burnt through all their credibility with outlandish statements, multiple missed deadlines, and just plain lying. They would double talk everything. When Thor came it I think everyone gave him a clean slate on the credibility, but because of the past damage done by his predecessors, he really had no get out of jail free cards on misleading people. His first major misstatement/lie/failure, after telling people very recent they were on track and saying how the company had to be laser focused and meet deadline, have instantly put him and RIM back to Mike and Jim level skepticism about anything he says from now on. Sorry Thor but when you are the follow-up act for the Mike and Jim clown show you really have no room for missing your first major deadline and you blew it. Most people will now just think "Same old RIM"!

[kfh227]

For your theory to work, Heins and other members of the senior corporate structure would have to had lied to the market in their earnings calling leaving themselves open to lawsuits and possible criminal charges.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

How did they lie? Wouldn't getting Samsungs hardware to work with teh BB10 OS be an integration issue?

Is this the kind of info you want leaked to Google with the Galaxy S3 jsut coming out?

The real truth is that Google is probably going to be making their own phones soon and comapnnies like Samsung see the writing on the wall. They need BB10 at this point.

[howarmat]

the new samsung will be the best selling android phone EVER. Google nor samsung are going to see any reason to not continue working the way they are. They both will be building mountains of cash out of it.

[cgk]

Because if there was a secret deal with Samsung that is going to cause the stocks to surge when it is released, the news as released depressed the prices - withholding under those circumstances would lead to charges of malpractice by shareholders and possible criminal investigations.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

[Rootbrian]

Rim is still not going to be sold. Who keeps bringing that up? They hired bankers for advice.

[howarmat]

Rim is still not going to be sold. Who keeps bringing that up? They hired bankers for advice.

did a little birdie tell you this or are you just speculating like everyone else? What if the advice they are given is to sell off parts of the company?

[Rootbrian]

did a little birdie tell you this or are you just speculating like everyone else? What if the advice they are given is to sell off parts of the company?

I'm just guestimating. Until RIM makes an official statement about this, we don't have a clue what is planned or is going to happen. I went to the band for financial advice due to digging in too deep into my overdraft. But doesn't mean I have to sell off all my assets and property.

[soren203]

I would love to see a samsung and RIM partnership involving android on RIM phones, but this is defiantly not the reason for the delay lol

[Luckyman6886]

For your theory to work, Heins and other members of the senior corporate structure would have to had lied to the market in their earnings calling leaving themselves open to lawsuits and possible criminal charges.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

Yes, I think so

[Blackberry_boffin]

not buying it, expecially if the hardware is supposedly ready to go for the most part according to some reports. There is no benefit to adding a partnership if you can launch on your own much sooner. Sure they might end up teaming with samsun or MS or amazon but that isnt holding up the release for over 3 months

The hardware set in stone part never really washed with me.
Sure they have prototypes they are deciding between but ready is a tad too much.

[BBBlake]

For your theory to work, Heins and other members of the senior corporate structure would have to had lied to the market in their earnings calling leaving themselves open to lawsuits and possible criminal charges.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

It certainly wouldn't be a first time, would it?

[kdna]

Last thing I want to see is a partnership with Samsung, Google, or Microsoft. This will probably drive me over the edge and make me want to jump ship.

BlackBerry 10 is for BlackBerry People. Every suggestion otherwise is null.
No licensing of BB10 operating system. Drop Android support!