01-27-14 10:35 AM
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  1. Blacklatino's Avatar
    Threat? As stated, not to anyone that wants....a BlackBerry. Consumers switch devices all the time. Right now, incentives/marketing is needed to get BlackBerry sales up for the new devices. At this point, Apple and Android will continue as usual. The next year should be interesting for BlackBerry, IMO.
    DJM626 likes this.
    01-25-14 11:52 AM
  2. anon6040766's Avatar
    iPhone has an incredibly loyal customer base. More than any other brand of anything. A customer base that is not into forums or specs so you don't hear about them on iMore or any other iPhone fan forums. They don't care what anyone else has to offer. A customer base that no matter what, will always think BlackBerry is not relevant. Make an iPhone with a 2.5 inch screen..... they will wait in line to buy one at $1500 a piece. Make an iPhone with a 6 inch screen...... they will wait in line to buy one at $1500 a piece. Make an iPhone that is only for listening to music....... they wait in line to buy one. Their core base is customers that are not into specs or even care what BlackBerry or Windows may have to offer. They are just sitting around waiting for whatever Apple wants them to have, to come out so they can camp out at Best Buy. It's like trying to explain the political system of Greece to a bunch of 8 year olds. They just don't care. Until a marketing super-person comes along, BlackBerry will remain behind iPhones of any size with any specs.
    I concur with the above statement

    Posted via my BlackBerry Z30 on VZW from Philly
    01-25-14 12:25 PM
  3. SDTRMG's Avatar
    iPhone has an incredibly loyal customer base. More than any other brand of anything. A customer base that is not into forums or specs so you don't hear about them on iMore or any other iPhone fan forums. They don't care what anyone else has to offer. A customer base that no matter what, will always think BlackBerry is not relevant. Make an iPhone with a 2.5 inch screen..... they will wait in line to buy one at $1500 a piece. Make an iPhone with a 6 inch screen...... they will wait in line to buy one at $1500 a piece. Make an iPhone that is only for listening to music....... they wait in line to buy one. Their core base is customers that are not into specs or even care what BlackBerry or Windows may have to offer. They are just sitting around waiting for whatever Apple wants them to have, to come out so they can camp out at Best Buy. It's like trying to explain the political system of Greece to a bunch of 8 year olds. They just don't care. Until a marketing super-person comes along, BlackBerry will remain behind iPhones of any size with any specs.
    I don't disagree with your statement, but apple does make some beautifully crafted devices that for the simple people just work, which was and is one of main reasons me and others like there devices.

    I was what someone would call a iSheep, I have a MBP, iMac, Apple tv, 2 ipods, ipad, and had every iphone from 3gs to the 5.

    With that said I even realized the iPhone 5s was a BS upgrade to the 5. I would have paid more then $900 (to replace my 64gb) for duel Led flash with a slight camera bump, finger print scanner and a 64 bit processor most apps don't utilize. So I bought a z30.

    Z30 - The Final Destination - Winnipeg Mb Clothing|Footwear|Headwear|Headshop|Tobacconist|Ta ttoos
    01-25-14 12:45 PM
  4. TGR1's Avatar
    I don't disagree with your statement, but apple does make some beautifully crafted devices that for the simple people just work, which was and is one of main reasons me and others like there devices.

    I was what someone would call a iSheep, I have a MBP, iMac, Apple tv, 2 ipods, ipad, and had every iphone from 3gs to the 5.

    With that said I even realized the iPhone 5s was a BS upgrade to the 5. I would have paid more then $900 (to replace my 64gb) for duel Led flash with a slight camera bump, finger print scanner and a 64 bit processor most apps don't utilize. So I bought a z30.

    Z30 - The Final Destination - Winnipeg Mb Clothing|Footwear|Headwear|Headshop|Tobacconist|Ta ttoos
    While I don't agree with your assessment of 5 vs 5s, I also have to comment that you aren't the main intended demographic either. Those are the new, switchers, and those on the 4S whose 2 yr contracts are expiring. Unlike other OEMs Apple has a very well-tuned strategy for retention that so far is working well.

    I also have to disagree with a poster's comment on "incredibly loyal fan base". There are certainly many who are but I don't think it is as big or hardcore as it once was, before Apple opened the iPod to Windows and really entered the CE world. What fuels retention on the scale it is at now should better be described as a very satisfied customer base. What differentiates this is that the company must continue strong efforts to maintain trust and satisfaction because it Is a softer and more demanding base.
    01-25-14 03:08 PM
  5. zten's Avatar
    I'm excited to see what the new iPhone will look like after apples latest mac build which resembles a giant trash can.



    Posted via CB10
    01-25-14 03:10 PM
  6. anon(5828343)'s Avatar
    Are you sure about that? Both are in competition for our mindshare/pocket share.


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk
    Yes -- I am totally sure about that.

    I don't think anyone can pretend that BB10 is in any way competing head to head with iOS. That is not a commentary on whether BB10 is good or not, it is a simple statement of fact.

    Let's not forget the multiple declarations from BBRY executives past and present: BBRY is no longer interested in competing in the consumer space. Yes, some of their actions directly contradict this assertion but when they make such declarations and they don't have any effective marketing initiatives to compete in the consumer space, then there really is no way for BB10 to go up against iPhone, Samsung or even LG, Motorola, HTC and others who are all pursuing the consumer market.

    I would say Samsung, Apple, LG, Motorola, Google, HTC and many others are definitely competing for "mindshare/pocket share" but I wouldn't count BBRY among those.
    01-25-14 05:42 PM
  7. sinsin07's Avatar
    That was the steve jobs era. Tim Cook is playing ketchup.
    No Thor Heins was playing "ketchup".
    01-25-14 05:42 PM
  8. BK_NY_RAY's Avatar
    A lot of your points are wrong/ non selling points.

    1. A majority of the market couldn't careless about keyboards.
    2. I have a mophie pack for my iPhone. Extra juice is non issue
    3.BB is missing a lot of apps. The apps they share with other platforms is of lesser quality. Ex twitter/FB/the score/checks are all of inferior quality when compared to iOS/android/windows. Not to mention it's missing spotify, Netflix, hbogo,Hulu etc etc.
    4. BB's are less than the competition? Motorola/Nokia offers cheaper devices both with a superior ecosystem.
    5. Hub is great
    6. Instant replies can be duplicated on android
    7. Play store? I don't have that option on my z10.



    Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk
    1) Huh? I was saying that some consumers don't know that there are full touch screened BB phones or BB phones with touch screen and keyboard.

    2) Replaceable battery isn't just for replacing your dead battery with a fully charged one. It's also for when you have battery problems, you can just buy a brand new one for 10 bucks and replacing it instead of spending way more and going through all the trouble and time on getting the problem fixed on iPhone. Also, if you run out of the "extra juice" you are screwed.

    3) BB10 has most apps consumers use on their phones.

    It doesn't matter if some apps are of lesser quality, all that matters is that they work. Its not, match the competitions app or you're garbage

    4) We are talking about iPhones here. Plus, BB phones cost less than most of the competition. Matter of fact, is any Motorola or Nokia phone with matching specs cost less than the BB phones? I'm really asking.

    6) Were talking about iPhones. And does Android do it as an Android feature or do you need a 3rd party app?

    7) Downloading Android apps directly. Stop it.
    01-25-14 06:35 PM
  9. BK_NY_RAY's Avatar
    Has anyone seen the new Kindle HDX commercial with the iPad Air?

    It's simple, amazing and directly shows you what needs to be shown.

    I think BB should that.
    01-25-14 06:39 PM
  10. Graz's Avatar
    Nice to see that some people can have an objective informed opinion without insulting and generalizing users of other platforms. Apparently a large percentage of people here still can't.

    Posted via CB10
    01-25-14 07:11 PM
  11. iN8ter's Avatar
    1) Huh? I was saying that some consumers don't know that there are full touch screened BB phones or BB phones with touch screen and keyboard.

    2) Replaceable battery isn't just for replacing your dead battery with a fully charged one. It's also for when you have battery problems, you can just buy a brand new one for 10 bucks and replacing it instead of spending way more and going through all the trouble and time on getting the problem fixed on iPhone. Also, if you run out of the "extra juice" you are screwed.

    3) BB10 has most apps consumers use on their phones.

    It doesn't matter if some apps are of lesser quality, all that matters is that they work. Its not, match the competitions app or you're garbage

    4) We are talking about iPhones here. Plus, BB phones cost less than most of the competition. Matter of fact, is any Motorola or Nokia phone with matching specs cost less than the BB phones? I'm really asking.

    6) Were talking about iPhones. And does Android do it as an Android feature or do you need a 3rd party app?

    7) Downloading Android apps directly. Stop it.
    Have an issue, go to the Apple Store and get a free battery or whatever. They have great support. Blackberry doesn't. Their support channels trump the benefit of a removable battery.

    You can crank your iPhone and have a new one in minutes (like a friend of mine this week) without dealing with Asurion or some other insurance company. That's a Competitive advantage.

    Also, Apple has great services with which BlackBerry cannot compete.

    Android has expandable and actionable notifications.

    Blackberry has no Flickr app. No apps from Google or Microsoft. Almost none from Adobe (PS Touch/Express, GroupPix, Revel). There are a ton of apps missing. They don't have most apps most consumers use. Stop it.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    JeepBB and lnichols like this.
    01-25-14 08:15 PM
  12. anon6040766's Avatar
    As the OP for this thread, I appreciate it has brought up some solid points. So at this time, let me clarify what I meant. Feel free obviously to let the the thread go where it does, but here's what my intentions were initially.

    I know a lot of people moving from iPhones to to the Galaxy's and Notes and a lot of them talk about liking having a larger phone. Naturally the Z30 offers them that. What it didn't offer was some features they wanted unless they were willing to take extra steps and download leaks. Even after the leaks they had to take extra steps to download the apps. Remember, I'm in the US. My thought was with 10.2.1 running on the Z30 soon maybe some of the unhappy iPhone users would go BlackBerry instead of Android. So that's why I asked if a 5.5inch iPhone would hurt the Z30. It two fold, will some BlackBerry loyalists who can't get the Z30 in the US jump to the larger iPhone, but also will a larger iPhone stop any potential iPhone defectors from coming to BlackBerry?

    Posted via my BlackBerry Z30 on VZW from Philly
    01-25-14 08:29 PM
  13. anon6040766's Avatar
    Have an issue, go to the Apple Store and get a free battery or whatever. They have great support. Blackberry doesn't. Their support channels trump the benefit of a removable battery.

    You can crank your iPhone and have a new one in minutes (like a friend of mine this week) without dealing with Asurion or some other insurance company. That's a Competitive advantage.

    Also, Apple has great services with which BlackBerry cannot compete.

    Android has expandable and actionable notifications.

    Blackberry has no Flickr app. No apps from Google or Microsoft. Almost none from Adobe (PS Touch/Express, GroupPix, Revel). There are a ton of apps missing. They don't have most apps most consumers use. Stop it.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    True story. Almost everything you just posted is untrue.

    If you compare the $10/month insurance to Apple Care, even for an iPhone...carrier insurance covers a wider variety of incidences.

    BlackBerry offers free Global Support for one year after purchase where they can get logs from your phone and fix issues without a "Genius Bar" appointment. It's just the forums are so great you can usually find a forum to help out.

    Get off the app issue. We all know how to get every app we want. There are like 5 left and even those will be available with the full 10.2.1 and direct access to other app stores.

    Oh, and BlackBerry comes preloaded with Docs to Go which has Word, Excel, and PowerPoint.

    Why must people try so hard to put BlackBerry down. I appreciate your preference in device choice, but if you choose to come to a BlackBerry forum then to quote a phrase "get your facts straight, then come back and see us".

    Posted via my BlackBerry Z30 on VZW from Philly
    01-25-14 08:51 PM
  14. Mark LeGear's Avatar
    People are afraid of what they don't understand and what's popular in the media.



    Posted via my Z30
    01-25-14 09:13 PM
  15. iN8ter's Avatar
    True story. Almost everything you just posted is untrue.

    If you compare the $10/month insurance to Apple Care, even for an iPhone...carrier insurance covers a wider variety of incidences.

    BlackBerry offers free Global Support for one year after purchase where they can get logs from your phone and fix issues without a "Genius Bar" appointment. It's just the forums are so great you can usually find a forum to help out.

    Get off the app issue. We all know how to get every app we want. There are like 5 left and even those will be available with the full 10.2.1 and direct access to other app stores.

    Oh, and BlackBerry comes preloaded with Docs to Go which has Word, Excel, and PowerPoint.

    Why must people try so hard to put BlackBerry down. I appreciate your preference in device choice, but if you choose to come to a BlackBerry forum then to quote a phrase "get your facts straight, then come back and see us".

    Posted via my BlackBerry Z30 on VZW from Philly
    Where are the BB stores to visit to have a new phone in ten minutes like she (my friend) did.

    With carrier insurance a deductible is required and the repair turn around isn't even in the same league. I've had to use that 3 times. I know.

    Apple just gave her a new iPhone 5,and she was done. Time minutes or less. Literally.

    Also you're not reading my post. Device choice has nothing to do with it as I don't own the device in Question. Read the signature.

    You can't fixes a webbed screen on a forum, and I'm pretty sure Apple users have communities like iMore where they can seek assistance (usually with a lot less flaming and arguing). That's not a factor.

    In fact, for most ios users those forums are useless as there are tons of ios users they know personally who can help them in person.

    The only feature of ios that I'd like as an android user is shared photo streams, and that's more a service that can easily replaced by third parties like Flickr (no BB10 app) for example. I just like how apple has Integrated it, which is the reason why a lot of people simply don't want to bother with using anything else (convenience of integrated services that use the account you set the phone up with vs. downloading a 3rd party app/creating an account/etc.).

    I don't buy specs anymore (except camera quality). I buy for a good services ecosystem and decent app/developer support.

    There is no Flickr app for BB10 in BB World. There are no Microsoft or Google Apps there. There surely aren't any Apple Apps for anything but an iOS device. Those Adobe Apps are missing. The app gap is huge and you're always free to keep deluding yourself that everything almost any consumer would need is there, but it's not the case. Android sideloading is a good work around for some apps but there are limitations that greatly affect some apps in that run-time.

    At this point, I almost don't even care what OS a smartphone runs. I care much more about which services are available on the platform, and which services are integrated into the platform. I like being able to use as few logins as possible, so using a BB phone with a BBID, Evernote, Dropbox, Gmail, etc. etc. etc. account is out of the question for me. That's way too much work and way too much information going in too many directions.

    To the average consumer, features don't necessarily sell phones. Convenience, integration, and bundling does. Apple is strong in those areas. Blackberry is not. It doesn't surprise me that Microsoft is having a bit better traction at this point, given how much they've been leveraging their services back end across all platforms/form factors they target, and how they've made a it a point to point that out to consumers.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 01-25-14 at 10:01 PM.
    JeepBB likes this.
    01-25-14 09:32 PM
  16. aha's Avatar
    Of course, new iPhone will definitely be a threat to Z30, but that only makes me looking forward to what coming next after Z30.

    Posted via CB10 with Z30 on 10.2.1.1925+1926 radio
    01-25-14 09:36 PM
  17. anon6040766's Avatar
    Where are the BB stores to visit to have a new phone in ten minutes like she (my friend) did.

    There is no Flickr app for BB10 in BB World. There are no Microsoft or Google Apps there. There surely aren't any Apple Apps for anything but an iOS device. Those Adobe Apps are missing. The app gap is huge and you're always free to keep deluding yourself that everything almost any consumer would need is there, but it's not the case. Android sideloading is a good work around for some apps but there are limitations that greatly affect some apps in that run-time.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    I'll address two of your points. First, I can walk into Verizon and have my BlackBerry replaced within minutes. Your Apple friend, should read the Apple Care book, she got a refurb that's what Apple Care promises "A working phone in like and kind with respect to model and OS, not a new phone"...Verizon guarantees a brand new phone. I'm not talking about a fix, I'm speaking of a replacement.

    You keep speaking of BlackBerry World. While BlackBerry World is improving, yes we are heavily relying on Android apps. Here's what's funny. BlackBerry 10.2.1.1925 Android Run Time is faster than 70% of Android phones on the market. So actually BlackBerry 10 is better prepared to handle Android apps than the majority of Android phones.

    I'm truly just trying to have a respectful...agree to disagree debate. I've used all platforms except Windows and could easily have stuck with an iPhone or an Android. I took the 5s for a spin, then back to the Z10, then tried the Note 3. Then now the Z30. My preference just happens to be the Z30.

    It's is just interesting to me that CrackBerry is for the most part full of BlackBerry addicts that don't put down other devices or platforms or devices til provoked, but it's seems like we are always on the defensive because every time someone makes any comparison BlackBerry gets bashed.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Z30 on VZW from Philly
    axeman1000 likes this.
    01-26-14 01:19 AM
  18. BerryRipe's Avatar
    The new screen size o. The iphone will make my wife happy. She is a DROID user and wants an iphone next. She hates blackberries on principle and would rather go without a phone if blackberry was all that was available.

    Posted via CB10
    I would file for divorce! LoL

    Keep The Faith ? BlackBerry Q10 ?
    01-26-14 02:02 AM
  19. katiepea's Avatar
    Has anyone seen the new Kindle HDX commercial with the iPad Air?

    It's simple, amazing and directly shows you what needs to be shown.

    I think BB should that.
    How can they? You can't advertise how to side load apps people want in 30 seconds.
    JeepBB and bbq10l like this.
    01-26-14 02:04 AM
  20. lnichols's Avatar
    I have decided that I won't be getting a Z30 unless there is a write down and I can get it for $200 unlocked like the Z10 deal. The delay in the US, the meager increase in specs over the Z10.... Only things I would get would be much better battery life, Miracast (which apparently doesn't work well or at all for movies), and better speakers (my phone isn't a boom box and I have a PlayBook with great speakers). Hopefully they will have a 1080 screen, great battery life, sound, etc device later in 2014.

    Posted via CB10
    01-26-14 08:03 AM
  21. THBW's Avatar
    Didn't Apple just launch in China recently? Might be a bit premature ...
    Well, actually no. They have been in China for a couple of years. The most recent deal was with China Mobile, the third largest carrier in China. Together, they did a typical launch with advertising, endorsements and pre-sales. China Mobile immediately knew that pre-sales were looking bad and cut the price on the iPhone 5s by 20 percent. A couple days later, they cut their data plan pricing specifically for the iPhone to boost pre-sales.

    Apple used to command about 20 percent of the Chinese market. By mid 2013 it was under 10 percent and today sits around 6-7 percent. If you factor in the secondary market, this number is viewed as generous given the demand for Android.

    The China Mobile deal was big for Apple because it was there chance to reboot their China strategy. The truth is that it is failing and the reasons are simple. The iPhone in its current form is not a premium phone in China Uncompetitive hardware, outdated software, poor ecosystem, over priced by a country mile. Throw in a bit of arrogance and viola the outcome is predictable.

    Apple is learning the hard way that the 5s in at best a mid range phone and needs to be priced and packaged accordingly. It should be priced under 400 dollars and probably closer to 350. At that price. It has a chance of gaining traction.

    Posted via CB10
    01-26-14 08:38 AM
  22. iN8ter's Avatar
    People actually believe the runtime in bb10 is faster than native Android phones. Where did that rumor even originate?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-26-14 10:08 AM
  23. iN8ter's Avatar
    I'll address two of your points.
    Address all of them since you said everything I said was flat out wrong.

    First, I can walk into Verizon and have my BlackBerry replaced within minutes. Your Apple friend, should read the Apple Care book, she got a refurb that's what Apple Care promises "A working phone in like and kind with respect to model and OS, not a new phone"...Verizon guarantees a brand new phone. I'm not talking about a fix, I'm speaking of a replacement.
    Verizon does not guarantee a brand new phone.

    You keep speaking of BlackBerry World. While BlackBerry World is improving, yes we are heavily relying on Android apps. Here's what's funny. BlackBerry 10.2.1.1925 Android Run Time is faster than 70% of Android phones on the market. So actually BlackBerry 10 is better prepared to handle Android apps than the majority of Android phones.
    That's patently false, untrue, and the RunTime still has a huge API/Feature Gap compared to native Android devices that leaves it unable to fully support a LOT of Android apps.

    I'm truly just trying to have a respectful...agree to disagree debate. I've used all platforms except Windows and could easily have stuck with an iPhone or an Android. I took the 5s for a spin, then back to the Z10, then tried the Note 3. Then now the Z30. My preference just happens to be the Z30.
    I've used all platforms including Windows Phone. Your preference is just that, your preference. Don't invent facts to make yourself feel better for having a niche preference.

    It's is just interesting to me that CrackBerry is for the most part full of BlackBerry addicts that don't put down other devices or platforms or devices til provoked, but it's seems like we are always on the defensive because every time someone makes any comparison BlackBerry gets bashed.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Z30 on VZW from Philly
    Whether you're on the defensive or not is your own problem. The reason why you people are always on the defensive is because your offense is usually the spreading of mistruths and misleading others with FUD.
    JeepBB likes this.
    01-26-14 10:18 AM
  24. Graz's Avatar
    Well, actually no. They have been in China for a couple of years. The most recent deal was with China Mobile, the third largest carrier in China. Together, they did a typical launch with advertising, endorsements and pre-sales. China Mobile immediately knew that pre-sales were looking bad and cut the price on the iPhone 5s by 20 percent. A couple days later, they cut their data plan pricing specifically for the iPhone to boost pre-sales.

    Apple used to command about 20 percent of the Chinese market. By mid 2013 it was under 10 percent and today sits around 6-7 percent. If you factor in the secondary market, this number is viewed as generous given the demand for Android.

    The China Mobile deal was big for Apple because it was there chance to reboot their China strategy. The truth is that it is failing and the reasons are simple. The iPhone in its current form is not a premium phone in China Uncompetitive hardware, outdated software, poor ecosystem, over priced by a country mile. Throw in a bit of arrogance and viola the outcome is predictable.

    Apple is learning the hard way that the 5s in at best a mid range phone and needs to be priced and packaged accordingly. It should be priced under 400 dollars and probably closer to 350. At that price. It has a chance of gaining traction.

    Posted via CB10
    As of late 2013 iphone had a 12% market share in China and was third behind Samsung and Lenovo according to Counterpoint.
    What makes the Iphone 5s a non-premium or "mid-range" phone? Seems to be a subjective opinion rather than an objective one.

    Posted via CB10
    01-26-14 11:23 AM
  25. JeepBB's Avatar
    It's not meant to be an upgrade to the 5. kind of like now the Z30 isn't meant to be an upgrade to the Z10. The 5S is for all the people that didn't buy the 5. . . Apple's not really expecting the same people to buy new iPhones every year, just like BBRY isn't expecting people that just bought the Z10 to buy the Z30.

    Put another way, if you expect every single device to be a "significant upgrade" over the previous device from the same manufacturer, you're just not very, um, "astute."
    Agreed.

    I'd go further and argue that "astute" manufacturers ensure that they have all their bases covered. Some new phones *will* be significant upgrades on last year's model while other new models will attempt to fill a gap and capture fresh sales in some specific market niche.
    01-26-14 11:29 AM
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