1. mdarscott's Avatar
    No one wants to talk about the new iPad?

    As someone with a small emotional investment in RIM - probably due to my addictive relationship with their PlayBook - I confess I waited with some trepidation for the launch of iPad3. Half of me wants Apple to blow me away with something I never expected. Half of me quakes at the thought that a revolutionary step forward, or even just signs that Apple is increasing its lead, could have slammed the door on RIM.

    But, phew, while Apple keeps moving steadily forward, the new iPad does not slam the door shut. In fact, the PlayBook holds up in comparison. The iPad screen is better and it has LTE but that's it - hardly enough to justify paying three times the price for something too big to put in your bag.

    The prices! Bad enough the $499 price of the plain iPad, it's $629!! for the LTE version, and then you have to pay monthly for the data plan for all the gigabytes this greedy baby is going to suck!!!

    The half of me that loves Apple is a little disappointed, the half that loves RIM says Let's go RIM, I see Apple just up ahead.
    Last edited by mdarscott; 03-08-12 at 07:50 AM.
    03-08-12 07:38 AM
  2. Economist101's Avatar
    The same thing was said after the 4S announcement. Consumers, however, disagreed.
    scorpiodsu, Skier1960 and vrs626 like this.
    03-08-12 07:41 AM
  3. palmless's Avatar
    No one wants to talk about the new iPad?
    Er... they are all over in the other twenty threads I think?
    Hamp likes this.
    03-08-12 07:42 AM
  4. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    How on earth does this help the Playbook? I am all for optimism, but I fail to see how the introduction of an arguably better overall device elicits back-slaps and high fives from competitors.
    Last edited by trelawrence; 03-08-12 at 07:57 AM. Reason: punctuation.
    03-08-12 07:44 AM
  5. brucep1's Avatar
    . The iPad screen is better and it has LTE but that's it - hardly enough to justify paying three times the price for something too big to put in your bag.
    Have you heard of something called applications?
    Joanne17 likes this.
    03-08-12 07:44 AM
  6. Deathcommand's Avatar
    GPU and RAM got upped.

    Those two mean alot in iOS.
    I'm just glad their customers aren't getting shafted so hard now.

    (Still being shafted though.)
    anon(3896606) likes this.
    03-08-12 07:48 AM
  7. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Have you heard of something called applications?
    Ooh, ooh I know this one: all you need is the browser!
    FSeverino likes this.
    03-08-12 07:49 AM
  8. mdarscott's Avatar
    @Palmless, @Economist101

    Ha, ha, I see you guys are back to squash any optimism about RIM. How are we doing with our bet? How is the iPhone selling?
    03-08-12 07:55 AM
  9. Economist101's Avatar
    @Palmless, @Economist101

    Ha, ha, I see you guys are back to squash any optimism about RIM. How are we doing with our bet? How is the iPhone selling?
    We'll see in April. As for enthusiasm, you can be as enthusiastic as you want, but I can't help that the facts don't support you.
    03-08-12 07:59 AM
  10. lnichols's Avatar
    The media and Apple fanboy excitement about the device seems to be pretty low compared to other iterations, just like it was with the iPhone4s. Apple will still sell a ton of them though just like they are with the iPhone4s. I think that it allows RIM an opportunity with the Next Gen Playbook that will have LTE to still have superior processor specs/battery life with either the OMAP5 or S4 chip (whichever they choose), and they will still have the better OS with more and more features like QNXnet, NFC, etc in the next gen devices and BB10. I think the Retina display is pointless on a device that size, will make apps that are designed for iPhone and iPad1/2 look like crap, but it will be nice for the iPad people as they won't have such a crap pixel density like they did with the iPad1 and 2. Apple basically got caught with not a lot of options with processor improvement as none of the 28nm A15 based chips are available so they went with a higher clocked additional GPU A9 based design to get something out the door on their normal refresh cycles. RIM is going to try to keep the screen pixel ratio sizes on the BB10 and tablet device to a minimal amount of iterations from all reports we've seen.
    03-08-12 08:07 AM
  11. Saif Beiruty's Avatar
    Most of what are you saying is crazy. There is nothing better in the ipad except for applications
    03-08-12 08:45 AM
  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Most of what are you saying is crazy. There is nothing better in the ipad except for applications
    Even if that were true (and it could be argued forever), for a lot of people, that's like comparing a horse and car and saying the car is only better because of the engine.
    03-08-12 09:11 AM
  13. Vindicators's Avatar
    No one wants to talk about the new iPad?

    As someone with a small emotional investment in RIM - probably due to my addictive relationship with their PlayBook - I confess I waited with some trepidation for the launch of iPad3. Half of me wants Apple to blow me away with something I never expected. Half of me quakes at the thought that a revolutionary step forward, or even just signs that Apple is increasing its lead, could have slammed the door on RIM.

    But, phew, while Apple keeps moving steadily forward, the new iPad does not slam the door shut. In fact, the PlayBook holds up in comparison. The iPad screen is better and it has LTE but that's it - hardly enough to justify paying three times the price for something too big to put in your bag.

    The prices! Bad enough the $499 price of the plain iPad, it's $629!! for the LTE version, and then you have to pay monthly for the data plan for all the gigabytes this greedy baby is going to suck!!!

    The half of me that loves Apple is a little disappointed, the half that loves RIM says Let's go RIM, I see Apple just up ahead.
    Not try to say anything bad about RIM, but I don't follow your logic.

    The iPad 2 with compared specs with the Playbook (better SoC, lesser camera and speaker) already outsold every other tablet in the market at $500 price.

    Now the iPad 3 release with a screen quality and SoC destroy every other tablet, even the one just announce at CES 2012 (Asus TP TF700 for example) with the same $500 price. And the last gen iPad which is sell like crazy at $500 now just $400.

    So, How the PlayBook holds up in comparison?

    And a small note that while you may prefer a smaller screen but the larger screen panel cost more money than the small one, and it is the most expensive part in a tablet device. Also the larger chassis and baterry pack cost more money.
    It is normal to see larger screen tablet price higher than the small one.
    Last edited by Vindicators; 03-08-12 at 09:20 AM.
    03-08-12 09:18 AM
  14. undone's Avatar
    Without the death of Steve to shadow demand, we will see how the market takes to the 'New' iPad.

    Either way, they make better margins on the phones then the tablet.
    03-08-12 09:23 AM
  15. murnende's Avatar
    Half of me wants Apple to blow me away with something I never expected.
    This is going to be Apple's largest issue, moving forward. People's expectations for Apple are so high, virtually anything they introduce short of a paradigm shifting new technology will be seen by many as a disappointment. A lot of people said that's why they released the iPhone 4S rather than the 5, they wanted to temper peoples' expectations of future iterations.

    That said, people have been clamouring for an iPad with a Retina display from the release of the iPhone 4; Apple will sell a metric ton of the iPad 3, regardless of the cost.

    I think that it allows RIM an opportunity with the Next Gen Playbook . . .
    I'm not sure that RIM can afford a next gen PlayBook. Certainly the development costs for new hardware would be a lot lower than for the original, but given the money that they're undoubtedly pouring into development of BBOS 10, softer than usual sales and handset margins being squeezed, they can't afford to keep taking a $100+ loss on every PlayBook they sell.

    People make a big deal about how RIM has no debt and cash on hand, but that cash is going out the door very quickly. I think RIM is going to be limited as to how many more PlayBooks they can dump at a loss.
    03-08-12 09:29 AM
  16. xandermac's Avatar
    I just ordered a discounted iPad 2 personally but the new iPad will be another huge success and the also rans will remain just that.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    03-08-12 10:17 AM
  17. TGR1's Avatar
    BTW, the following applies for all vendors, not just RIM:

    With the iPad release Apple showed:

    1) nice hardware upgrade at same pricing, to be available in a week
    2) OS upgrade right now, for all previous generations
    3) Garageband for fun stuff
    4) Pages, Keynote for business suff
    5) new iPhoto, with great editing features, at a very agreeable price
    6) some pretty amazing games announced from big gaming houses
    7) professional, well-executed keynote

    The whole train above is a strength of Apple's that too many people here ignore. The hardware never stands alone. Look at everything that Apple put together and delivered in a cohesive package. The customer/user sees all the features together, working together, at the same time. You get a lot of support and attention to details when you buy into the Apple system. That's very attractive.

    The PB is a nice device and as RIM's flagship device really deserves that sort of support. Having said that, that list above should show that providing the support for a premium tablet ain't cheap and I doubt that even Apple has enormous margins on their tablets despite the pricing. There is a reason why iPads sell well but it takes a lot of resources to do so. I am not sure RIM can afford it.

    And this makes RIM's (and Nokia's) mobile performance particularly hideous IMO. There is nothing in that list that RIM or Nokia couldn't have done by themselves. Those two were the only other major vendors to control the whole shebang from OS to hardware and were industry leaders to boot.
    Last edited by TGR1; 03-08-12 at 10:27 AM.
    app_Developer and mdarscott like this.
    03-08-12 10:25 AM
  18. Resist28's Avatar
    How on earth does this help the Playbook? I am all for optimism, but I fail to see how the introduction of an arguably better overall device elicits back-slaps and high fives from competitors.
    Because the new ipad isn't that great and it is overpriced for what you get. The fanboys will start to drift over to other tablets. Having an Ipad isn't a big deal anymore all it means is you overpaid.
    03-08-12 11:06 AM
  19. louzer's Avatar
    So Apple has a new iPad called the New iPad. Aside from the fact that this naming will become tricky when the New New iPad comes out, they've effectively rebranded. It implies that it's not an incremental successor to the iPad 3, but a whole new tablet.

    In my mind, in order to do this, there needed to be a more fundamental paradigm shift in the iPad beyond processor, screen, 4G LTE, and a few apps. This version of the iPad should have removed the Home button. A shift like this would have differentiated the New iPad as a completely new iteration instead of an incremental upgrade.

    Having said that, this is what a lot of people complained about with the iPhone 4S, but they are selling a boatlaod anyway. Apple will certainly sell lots and lots of these since Apple early adopters outnumber any other vendors by an astronomical factor.

    I think that Apple held back on the iPhone 4S because a) the LTE chipsets weren't ready for prime time and b) LTE networks are still in infancy. I also think the lack of LTE in the 4S might have had something to do with the megadeal they struck with Sprint who, at the time, had only WiMax for 4G and no LTE.

    In the US, AT&T customers will be able to have HSPA+ and Verizon customers will be able to have LTE for their iPads. Sprint customers will be left out of the mix. There are many Sprint iPhones that have been sold that won't be seeing companion 'New iPads'. Given the throttling and 'top 95% usage designation notifications' from both AT&T and Verizon, might be in for a surprise.

    Another consideration is the cost. There are those who will dive right in despite the cost, but some might be put off. Keep in mind that most iPads won't leave the Apple store without an additional $99.00 Apple Care warantee. Tack on a screen protector, a case, and maybe an additional charger, and you're looking at an additional $200.00 tacked onto the price. Then add to that a 4G LTE rate plan adding, perhaps, $50.00/month or more to your current bill, and you've got an investment that needs to be seriously considered.

    If you own a Sprint iPhone, this new iPad is not an option. Neither is the iPad 2 3G since Apple never provided a Sprint-specific version. This means that the millions of people who bought iPhones (with 2 year contracts) on Sprint will be looking at the discounted wifi-only iPad 2 as their tablet alternative. This means that for millions of iPhone customers, the market is still open for other tablets to accompany iPhones.

    All of this doesn't seem to matter to the Apple early adopters, though. Despite what common sense would dictate, they still will flock to any new Apple product. In my mind, this does not make a lot of sense. When you look at the features of the New iPad as introduced, it's certainly a very cool device. My personal assessment is as follows:

    If you don't own an iPad, then it's a very cool tablet to own. If you own an original iPad, it's a worthy upgrade (if you've got that kind of money to spend every other release cycle). If you own an iPad 2, the new one is better, but arguably not better enough to justify retiring your expensive year-old tablet to start over with a new one.

    This, however, is what people were saying about the iPhone 4S when it first came out, but Apple still seemed to blow the doors off in terms of sales. When the 4S first came out, people debated who it would sell. The same is starting today in the wake of yesterday's announcement.

    Despite the 'incremental upgrade' (which people here will argue about ad infinitum) that the iPad received, why will it jump off the shelves just like the iPhone 4S did?

    There was one aspect to the New iPad that was introduced yesterday that everyone seems to ignore. It's the same aspect that was presented at the iPhone 4S launch that slipped under the radar during the presentation, but is, in my mind, singularly responsible for the success of the iPhone 4S and will be for the New iPad - A great commercial that states Apple's message beautifully, eloquently, and consisely in terms that the people can understand. Their ad campaign does an unbelievable job of making people envision themselves using Apple products and being more productive. That is what I think is the key to maintaining their enormous early adopter numbers.

    I love my Playbook. But the reason I love it is because I was there from the beginning and fall into the RIM early adopter category. Others love their Playbook because it's a great device at the discounted price. No one, however, loves their Playbook because an ad campaign made them envision a Playbook as an integral part of their lives. RIM desperately needs a key marketing differentiator in order to stay in the game. Their current marketing is too fragmented. I think that the 'tools not toys' approach is a good start. But it's attracting a niche crowd. They need a more ubiquitous message that rings true to the masses. Apple is able to come up with something like this with every product launch. RIM needs markting!
    mdarscott and ayekon like this.
    03-08-12 11:28 AM
  20. Shlooky's Avatar
    I will be ordering the new generation iPad as well, will only get the wifi only.
    03-08-12 12:05 PM
  21. palmless's Avatar
    Despite the 'incremental upgrade' (which people here will argue about ad infinitum) that the iPad received, why will it jump off the shelves just like the iPhone 4S did?
    Because, as with the iPhone 4s, the majority of buyers will not be upgrading. They'll be purchasing their first real tablet. Over half of iPhone 4s buyers were NOT upgrading from another iPhone.

    The decision is *NOT* "Hmm, my iPad 2 works pretty good, should I sell it on Gazelle for $325 and buy this for $499?".

    The decision is "Hmm, this looks pretty good, should I buy it for $499?".

    $499 is so cheap, most folks don't have to think very hard to justify the purchase. $499 gets you a truly horrid plastic HP laptop loaded with junk ware and Windows 7 from Staples, or a new iPad. Pretty easy decision for most folks. Yet, there is still a market that can't or won't spend $499, that's the market the Kindle Fire dominates. No other tablets sell in significant numbers, so these two pretty much describe the entire decision matrix for new tablet buyers.
    Hamp likes this.
    03-08-12 12:05 PM
  22. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    New ipad is enterprise centric and a hardware upgrade.
    But like Cook said, let's not compare tablets with ipads; we're just comparing apples and ... berries ! lol

    Let the apple products live and bring their benefits to those who appreciate them.
    RIM's problem is not apple. Not the current problem, anyway.
    Focus, invent, deliver on time is enough work for now.
    03-08-12 12:06 PM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    Let the apple products live and bring their benefits to those who appreciate them.
    RIM's problem is not apple. Not the current problem, anyway.
    Focus, invent, deliver on time is enough work for now.
    This is the most intelligent thing I've read on Crackberry in a long time.

    You're absolutely right, Apple is not the issue for RIM.
    03-08-12 12:10 PM
  24. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    Very good and interesting points on the iPad. I have an ipad2, but am getting the new iPad anyways. I have the 16gb however, and have been considering getting a larger one for a while now, so it's not just the better hardware that lures me, but also the bigger size.

    It's NOT just about marketing however. Sure, the 4S might not have been what people were expecting, but neither was it anywhere close to "an incremental" upgrade. The 4S upgrade almost doubled the CPU power (to a dual core CPU), it doubled the memory, doubled the max storage and introduced a new superior camera and antenna.

    Same thing can be said for the new iPad. Double screen resolution, quadrupled number of pixels, double the memory size and graphics processors, a vastly superior camera and 4G speeds. I'd love to hear what you consider a "real upgrade" if that's an incremental upgrade...

    And while marketing is important, you can't sell anything on marketing alone. You got to deliver an awesome product as well.

    And yes, everyone could learn from Apples delivery. No vague
    Roomies about "available in q2" like with RIM, Google or a y Android vendor.

    I'm seriously considering switching from Android to anniphone exactly because I'm tired of upgrades that either never get there, or upgrades that I get six months after the fact.
    03-08-12 12:20 PM
  25. alby4ever's Avatar
    Actually, with 200,000 iPad-specific apps (most of which high quality), the iPad is infinitely more useful than the PB will ever be.

    "But all you need is the browser!"

    And if you still don't get why apps are a big deal, you probably also believe that RIM is fine.
    03-08-12 01:16 PM
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