[terminatorx]

Sales are the only thing that matters. No one buys the PlayBook. Therefore it is a failure. The PlayBook could have the best of everything and it is still a failure. The PlayBook has great cameras. Who cares, that don't make it a success. It is a 1.5 Billion dollar mistake, do you honestly think it having an accelerometer makes it all ok? lol

It's posts like this that make we wish there were @#@$ button. But don't hold back now, tell us what you really think.

[Astroglide]

Ok really, I need some advice because there's something that doesn't make sense..

I am looking all over the place about this playbook failure , 1.5 gazillion lost etc..and all I see if people talking about sales v.s lost revenue vs. stalled inventory etc. Ok that's fine and dandy but does anybody knows what is the true cost of a playbook? is there any official number about lost revenue based on final value(a packed playbook ready to ship)? Shipping terms between manufacturing and retailers? C.I.F or F.O.B? This is very important because will help me to see if retailers are taking the heat as well..Discount per volume? Cost of inventory?(in case rim is renting a warehouse) Inventory tax........

[JTATL]

What is a product and business failure?

A product loses money, is discounted 67%, your inventory is written down, you lose money, your ceos are fired, you furlough over one third your workforce, revenue and growth projections are cut, and your stock is downgraded because it dropped 93% in 4 years and you cant release product on time.

[amazinglygraceless]

What is a product and business failure?

A product loses money, is discounted 67%, your inventory is written down, you lose money, your ceos are fired, you furlough over one third your workforce, revenue and growth projections are cut, and your stock is downgraded because it dropped 93% in 4 years and you cant release product on time.

See, now you're just being picky

[sleepngbear]

What is a product and business failure?

A product loses money, is discounted 67%, your inventory is written down, you lose money, your ceos are fired, you furlough over one third your workforce, revenue and growth projections are cut, and your stock is downgraded because it dropped 93% in 4 years and you cant release product on time.

All because of the PlayBook, huh?

[JTATL]

All because of the PlayBook, huh?

Yes because they overpromised and underdelivered on the qnx/bbx/bb10 next generation platform of which the playbook was the first iteration. After a while your investors and consumers lose trust in you when they feel you are blowing smoke.

[mud314]

Yes the majority of tablets are failures, they sell in small numbers and make little profit. However besides the touchpad, as far as I am aware only the playbook resulted in a write-off of over a billion dollars - by any normal measure it is a spectacular commerical failure.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

Probably the best comment regarding this thread. Short and to the point, with a statement that can be backed up.

[jthep]

The Playbook is a financial failure for RIM and its shareholders. The Playbook is a failure as far as it being a "professional grade" tablet. But... as far as being a very good consumer tablet especially at its current price, its a success and a very good tablet.

I mean in other forms of consumerism, if something doesn't sell well or generate profits for a company its bad for the company, but can still be a good product or service for a consumer, especially when marked down.

The Playbook has a solid lineup of games, most of the important apps, a very good browser, runs well with a pretty good OS, and has that unique bridge feature for BB users.

I mean when it came out, it got knocked for lack of apps, unfinished OS, no native email, no Netflix app, no Skype, etc. Some aspects of the criticisms were fair, some where way overblown to the point people couldn't even acknowledge some great features on the PB.

FYI- I deleted my email accounts off my PB and just do email through Bridge. The notifications on a tablet seemed like overkill between my BB and PB. So the native email thing for me was completely overblown as a bridge app user.

[JTATL]

Probably the best comment regarding this thread. Short and to the point, with a statement that can be backed up.

Here is when the oxygen is sucked out of a market and few competitors can be profitable. This has happened twice with apple where they are are able to grab the vast majority of a product market.

Most music players are now known as ipods

Most tablets are known as ipads now

This happens very rarely like kneenex with facial tissue or rolaids with antacid

[addicted44]

In what alternate universe is the Playbook a success?

In the universe where hurts defined a successful tablet as one that is not based on a smartphone OS. I just wanted to confirm that he would be consistent with his definition and call PB a failure when it is updated to BB10 OS.

[MasterOfBinary]

In what alternate universe is the Playbook a success?

Since a few people are asking, I'm going to say something horrible that will get me flamed into oblivion, but that's fine.

Windows Vista was a success. A way better success than Mac OS X blahblah.

Why not? Vista sales were higher than expected, and OS X blahblah sales were waaaay lower. Heck, Windows me sold more copies than the version of Mac available at the time.

I'm not saying whether PB was a failure or not, I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense why everyone is trying to disagree with hurds just to bash the Playbook.

I'm done.

[Moonbase0ne]

Since a few people are asking, I'm going to say something horrible that will get me flamed into oblivion, but that's fine.

Windows Vista was a success. A way better success than Mac OS X blahblah.

Why not? Vista sales were higher than expected, and OS X blahblah sales were waaaay lower. Heck, Windows me sold more copies than the version of Mac available at the time.

I'm not saying whether PB was a failure or not, I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense why everyone is trying to disagree with hurds just to bash the Playbook.

I'm done.

Everyone trying to disagree with hurds just to bash the Playbook?

how about we disagree with him because, we don't think the Playbook was successful?

[crackcookie]

So I read a lot of people say the PB is a failure as though its an accepted fact. Now I strongly disagree with that but I won't argue that right now. But, if the PB is a failure, what is every other tablet aside from the ipad and kindle (I dont know why anyone would count the transformer considering it has a keyboard).

Sales wise most of the competition could be considered a failure if thats our benchmark. I would consider the unreleased google tablet, coming a good year and a bit after the playbook without a rear camera even to be considered a failure. Or I would consider the kindle with no cameras and no accelorometer to be a failure. But that would be my definition.

So is sales why people consider and proclaim the PB to be a failure? I think the real failure is the touchpad. In comparison I don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion that the playbook is a failure. So what are peoples definition of a failure and how does it apply to the different tablets?

However, as much as it pains me to say this, Blackberry is the true toy and we have been delusional this whole time. The inability to play games on the device does not make it a business phone, and I don't see why they named the Playbook in such a manner. The first business grade tablet? It is almost as if they are trying to hide something, imagine if a man called himself, the most well endowed man at this party while smiling and swishing around hi cranberry vodka, only to later pass out do to restriction of blood when it was found he strapped a cucumber to his leg to impress people.

When you get down to the nitty gritty, the future, the now, the BB is hopelessly lost. It is almost like it can not do anything. Some websites don't display properly in the browser, if at all. Trying to selection bubble options or drop down menus becomes an embarrassing mess you save for when you get to a real computer. The email capabilities are quite limited, in fact you have 9mb of attachment space and after that, you are out of luck! Some pictures can't even be sent via text, because they are too big...pictures that came out of that very phone! Not to mention, once you look at the competition, and what it can do, you come back to your berry feeling very underwhelmed.

There are a host of productivity apps that just aren't available on the Blackberry, not to mention options in MS office that you just can not use. Also a lot of websites just come up as checkered or not at all on the PB.

I do hear a song from the company, it is the same song and dance. They added a few remixes, but it is still the same song and dance. I am going to that nicer club down the street, where the guys aren't creepers, people dress to impress, and the ladies aren't the size of a walrus.

[hurds]

However, as much as it pains me to say this, Blackberry is the true toy and we have been delusional this whole time. The inability to play games on the device does not make it a business phone, and I don't see why they named the Playbook in such a manner. The first business grade tablet? It is almost as if they are trying to hide something, imagine if a man called himself, the most well endowed man at this party while smiling and swishing around hi cranberry vodka, only to later pass out do to restriction of blood when it was found he strapped a cucumber to his leg to impress people.

When you get down to the nitty gritty, the future, the now, the BB is hopelessly lost. It is almost like it can not do anything. Some websites don't display properly in the browser, if at all. Trying to selection bubble options or drop down menus becomes an embarrassing mess you save for when you get to a real computer. The email capabilities are quite limited, in fact you have 9mb of attachment space and after that, you are out of luck! Some pictures can't even be sent via text, because they are too big...pictures that came out of that very phone! Not to mention, once you look at the competition, and what it can do, you come back to your berry feeling very underwhelmed.

There are a host of productivity apps that just aren't available on the Blackberry, not to mention options in MS office that you just can not use. Also a lot of websites just come up as checkered or not at all on the PB.

I do hear a song from the company, it is the same song and dance. They added a few remixes, but it is still the same song and dance. I am going to that nicer club down the street, where the guys aren't creepers, people dress to impress, and the ladies aren't the size of a walrus.

I used an iPhone for 3 years. Its better as an ipod.

[hurds]

How well did the first iphone sell?

[Speedygi]

I'm afraid to say that in order for the PlayBook to be a huge success it must have at least a good percentage of the apps the Ipad has in app world. I would love to see a Kindle app on it for reading, before I would plunk down dollars for it.

[hurds]

Since a few people are asking, I'm going to say something horrible that will get me flamed into oblivion, but that's fine.

Windows Vista was a success. A way better success than Mac OS X blahblah.

Why not? Vista sales were higher than expected, and OS X blahblah sales were waaaay lower. Heck, Windows me sold more copies than the version of Mac available at the time.

I'm not saying whether PB was a failure or not, I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense why everyone is trying to disagree with hurds just to bash the Playbook.

I'm done.

Great points that will be ignored. People are blind to their own double standards. But what do I know, I'm just a tinfoil hat wearing, koolaid drinking, rose-colored glasses wearing foaming at the mouth fanboy. .

[hurds]

I'm afraid to say that in order for the PlayBook to be a huge success it must have at least a good percentage of the apps the Ipad has in app world. I would love to see a Kindle app on it for reading, before I would plunk down dollars for it.

I wonder what they think about the app store selectin in India. Anyone? Or wonder why people don't have this app desire on desktops. Its still so strange to me how some seemingly rudimentary apps don't make their way to the PB, but it seems to be just the usual suspect apps.

[dbmalloy]

A success is the device you choose to use... the rest are failures.....

[JTATL]

I wonder what they think about the app store selectin in India. Anyone? Or wonder why people don't have this app desire on desktops. Its still so strange to me how some seemingly rudimentary apps don't make their way to the PB, but it seems to be just the usual suspect apps.

The app desire has come to desktops already. Apps are available in google chrome, apple os and soon in windows 8. The dividing line between laptop and tablet is being blurred. Eventually you will just have a tablet device which interfaces wirelessly with your monitor keyboard printer tv gaming system stereo car and home automation. That was the vision Thor mention in that article in globe and mail they are all working toward the same goal full computing integration through a proprietary platform.

[hurds]

The app desire has come to desktops already. Apps are available in google chrome, apple os and soon in windows 8. The dividing line between laptop and tablet is being blurred. Eventually you will just have a tablet device which interfaces wirelessly with your monitor keyboard printer tv gaming system stereo car and home automation. That was the vision Thor mention in that article in globe and mail they are all working toward the same goal full computing integration through a proprietary platform.

Definitely agree with all that. MS is gonna have a lot of competition after dominating the operating system space for so long.

[addicted44]

Since a few people are asking, I'm going to say something horrible that will get me flamed into oblivion, but that's fine.

Windows Vista was a success. A way better success than Mac OS X blahblah.

Why not? Vista sales were higher than expected, and OS X blahblah sales were waaaay lower. Heck, Windows me sold more copies than the version of Mac available at the time.

I'm not saying whether PB was a failure or not, I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense why everyone is trying to disagree with hurds just to bash the Playbook.

I'm done.

A success is something which achieves its aim. Mac OS X achieved its aim of selling a ton of macs, making apple the most profitable computer hardware maker. What was the aim that the Playbook was supposed to achieve?

Somebody earlier in the thread laid out 3 of them, and showed how the Playbook failed all (counter the iPad, make money, be a testbed for BB10). It objectively failed the first 2. There aren't any objective measures for the 3rd, so that may still be debatable. I think it failed the 3rd goal too because (a) BB10 won't be coming out until 2 years after the PB. You can't be a successful testbed for a product releasing 2 years later IMO. Also, it failed to attract devs to the BB10 platform. That being said, I agree that it is difficult to say it failed in this aim, so I am willing to entertain the possibility that it succeeded here. However, I have t seen any objective or subjective evidence presented by anyone as to why it is a success here either.

Note that I am considering the success or failure of the device from either a RIM perspective. From individual owner perspectives, whoever owns the Playbook, and finds it has helped their computing lives, well, the PB is a succes for them. But I don't think that is a very useful perspective when discussing RIM as such.

[addicted44]

The app desire has come to desktops already. Apps are available in google chrome, apple os and soon in windows 8. The dividing line between laptop and tablet is being blurred. Eventually you will just have a tablet device which interfaces wirelessly with your monitor keyboard printer tv gaming system stereo car and home automation. That was the vision Thor mention in that article in globe and mail they are all working toward the same goal full computing integration through a proprietary platform.

I am not sure how y'all are defining apps, but apps have been an essential part of desktops. Probably more so than even mobile. MS built an entire empire based on its Office suite of apps (just because they call them programs or executables does not make them any different from apps). Adobe built an entire graphical empire based on the CS suite of apps. Valve has built an entire gaming empire based on its gaming apps. Intuit has built an entire empire based on apps. There are thousands of smaller development shops relying on Creating apps for the Windows and Mac platforms to sustain themselves.

The only difference now is that the App Store concept is new. Both Apple and MS are introducing app stores to make it easier to find apps for their desktop platforms.

[Superfly_FR]

Playbook sale is a failure : True
PlayBook is a failure : False
Playbook is a failure because its sale was a failure: tautological.

[kbz1960]

A success is something which achieves its aim. Mac OS X achieved its aim of selling a ton of macs, making apple the most profitable computer hardware maker. Snip

Selling a ton? How many more ton did MS sell? Since we always talk about market share in smartphones shouldn't we also talk about in pc's?

What makes apple profitable is high profit margins not selling a ton. You can sell a ton of gum at 2 cents a piece with a profit margin of 1 cent or you can sell that same piece of gum for 4 cents with a profit margin of 3 cents. OK you've done well selling basically the same thing for a lot more money. Good for the company and I guess also consumers who like to spend more than needed.